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| Spinosaurus aegyptiacus v Tyrannosaurus rex | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM (459,353 Views) | |
| Wolf Eagle | Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM Post #1 |
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M E G A P H Y S E T E R
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Tyrannosaurus rex Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes. ![]() Spinosaurus aegyptiacus Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur which lived in what is now North Africa, from the lower Albian to lower Cenomanian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 97 million years ago. Spinosaurus may be the largest of all known carnivorous dinosaurs, even larger than Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus. Estimates published in 2005 and 2007 suggest that it was 12.6 to 18 metres (41 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 20.9 tonnes (7.7 to 23.0 short tons) in weight. The skull of Spinosaurus was long and narrow like that of a modern crocodilian. Spinosaurus is thought to have eaten fish; evidence suggests that it lived both on land and in water like a modern crocodilian. The distinctive spines of Spinosaurus, which were long extensions of the vertebrae, grew to at least 1.65 meters (5.4 ft) long and were likely to have had skin connecting them, forming a sail-like structure, although some authors have suggested that the spines were covered in fat and formed a hump. Multiple functions have been put forward for this structure, including thermoregulation and display. Dal Sasso et al. (2005) assumed that Spinosaurus and Suchomimus had the same body proportions in relation to their skull lengths, and thereby calculated that Spinosaurus was 16 to 18 meters (52 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 9 tonnes (7.7 to 9.9 short tons) in weight. The Dal Sasso et al. estimates were criticized because the skull length estimate was uncertain, and (assuming that body mass increases as the cube of body length) scaling Suchomimus which was 11 meters (36 ft) long and 3.8 tonnes (4.2 short tons) in mass to the range of estimated lengths of Spinosaurus would produce an estimated body mass of 11.7 to 16.7 tonnes (12.9 to 18.4 short tons).
Edited by Taipan, Apr 24 2015, 10:10 PM.
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| theropod | Sep 9 2012, 01:14 AM Post #421 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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you don´t need a useless sail either, when the spines are too broad, you are endotherm and live in a warm climate. Elephants don´t eat animals at all, nevertheless they have huge tusks that are effective weapons |
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| Black Ice | Sep 9 2012, 01:15 AM Post #422 |
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Drom King
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Your missing the point, spinosaurus most likely fished them out of the water with their claws, the fish most likely was already impaled and bleeding to death before it was being brought to spinos mouth. Also it could bite, but no where near as hard. Its like giving smilodon a lions bite, it would shatter its jaw. Edited by Black Ice, Sep 9 2012, 01:16 AM.
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| Black Ice | Sep 9 2012, 01:15 AM Post #423 |
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Drom King
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keyword was "defense" |
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| theropod | Sep 9 2012, 01:20 AM Post #424 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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And in spinosaurus? it coexisted with a continent full of some of the most fearsome carnivores ever, some at least matching T. rex. For what did spinosaurus need jaws ideal for holding slippery fish if it was able to kill a 2t sawfish with it´s claws in the water fast enough for the fish not to escape? the jaws aren´t that fragile, on the appropriate threat it was already proven that it likely had a bite force exceeding 2t. |
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| Black Ice | Sep 9 2012, 01:22 AM Post #425 |
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Drom King
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it coexisted yes, doesn't mean it fought with them, an adult spinosaurus from size alone could take whatever it wanted from any predator it coexisted with. also 2tons? a adult spinosaurs bit no harder then a modern nile crocodile? Wow. Edited by Black Ice, Sep 9 2012, 01:22 AM.
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| Fragillimus335 | Sep 9 2012, 01:23 AM Post #426 |
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Omnivore
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My updated Spinosaurus skull reconstruction, 1.94 meters in length.
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| theropod | Sep 9 2012, 01:24 AM Post #427 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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Black Ice: And an elephant can´t? there is no reason why spinosaurus should not have been formidable just because it´s prey wasn´t that dangerous, when even plant eaters are formidable. and I wrote more than 2t, it´s mroe likely 3t as 2t is just extrapolated from some data on other spinosaurs whose snouts are much thinner Edited by theropod, Sep 9 2012, 01:25 AM.
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| Black Ice | Sep 9 2012, 01:26 AM Post #428 |
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Drom King
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herbivores evolved weapons to deal with carnivores, poor comparison.
still not impressive when your talking an adult spino. |
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| TheROC | Sep 9 2012, 01:34 AM Post #429 |
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Herbivore
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Wait, I haven't fully kept up. What has the argument turned to? Defense? Think about it like this. Even an Edmontosaurus, would have been a dangerous item for T.rex to tackle, simply because of its size and greater bulk alone. A T.rex's ribs could be severely damaged just from the latter ramming/knocking against it, and if T.rex falls from the impact, the g-forces and newton forces from the fall alone would cripple it. Now imagine you scale that opposition up even further to an animal over twice as heavy, with long penetrating teeth and 15 inch talons on its arms. It would flee before it fought something so large, and if it stayed, all the former would have to do is collide bodies with it to ensure a victory. At this size scale, simply falling can be deadly. And that favors the larger animal in a shoving contest. Edited by TheROC, Sep 9 2012, 01:34 AM.
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| theropod | Sep 9 2012, 01:37 AM Post #430 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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maybe unimpressive compared to it´s size (which is the case with many other animals as well, e.g. sharks, nevertheless they are deadly), but in absolute terms still a strong bite that could be deadly for the tyrannosaur. Yes, herbivores have evolved weapons to deal with carnivores, and carnivores to deal with herbivores. they all have developed weapons, so why shouldn´t spinosaurus? I just don´t see why you think a sail without any use would be more likely than a muscle attachment. |
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| Grey | Sep 9 2012, 01:45 AM Post #431 |
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Kleptoparasite
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Normally I favor Spinosaurus over T.rex, using the figure of a 17-18 m long carnivore, outweighing too much any other theropod, but Andrea Cau has significantly dowsized Spinosaurus at 12,5 m, a size comparable to T.rex and the large carcharodontosaurids. I don't know if further research will confirm this or not but I have a tendency to give credential to Cau when it comes about large theropods. In fact, according to him, no giant theropod actually exceeds 13 m. At comparable sizes, my bet on Tyrannosaurus greatly increases against the other contenders. Now I'm curious to see any other material counter-argumenting (from professionnals, not private assumptions from guys on the forum). Edited by Grey, Sep 9 2012, 01:46 AM.
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| Jinfengopteryx | Sep 9 2012, 01:53 AM Post #432 |
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Aspiring paleontologist, science enthusiast and armchair speculative fiction/evolution writer
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Really? I would like a source. If it's true, T rex wins with ease. P.S. The image of Dinosauria fit's perfect to that battle. |
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| Verdugo | Sep 9 2012, 01:56 AM Post #433 |
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Large Carnivores Enthusiast
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The sawfish is not 2 tons. Yes i know the sawfish is 8m long, but over 2,5m is the saw, so the sawfish is actually only 5,5m long. Compare to the great white shark, a 5,5m long GWS RARELY exceed 2 tons, so why the hell does a much less robust sawfish heavier than a GWS ??. http://www.aquariumofpacific.org/onlinelearningcenter/species/freshwater_sawfish ^ Base on this, a 6,5m sawfish weighs only 600kg, scale up to 8m, the 8m one would weighs ~ 1 tons
Yeah a 1 tons struggling is so great and a 8 tons struggling Triceratops is nothing, very LOGICAL and INTELLIGENT
So why don't you give a solid proof for the crest ??. Actually a hump of fat sounds more plausible than both sail and crest "A hump probably would not have been a very musculature structure but composed more of fatty tissues that may have been used for food storage as well as weighing less than the same proportionate amount of muscle." "Returning to the above theory of a hump of fatty tissue would suggest that the humps primary use would be store fat when Spinosaurus was able to gorge itself on a plentiful supply. Going with the fish specialisation, Spinosaurus's prey may have been seasonal with fish swimming upstream to spawn, but being relatively sparse throughout the rest of the year. Spinosaurus may have stored extra food as fat so that it could continue into the leaner times of the year where prey was less frequent when it may have had to supplement its diet by scavenging. " "The dinosaurs were also relatively unique in the shape of their elongated spine rows. In terms of maximum spine height compared to the rest of the body, the dinosaurs considered in the study had sail or hump heights intermediate between those of Dimetrodon and bison, and the long spines of Spinosaurus and Ouranosaurus jutted up over a greater length of the back than in the mammals. Whereas the elongated spines of bison typically peaked between the shoulderblades and quickly became reduced in size, the highest points of the dinosaur backs were set further back along the spine and had a more gradual slope to them. This is probably because the elongated spines of bison are sites for muscle and ligament attachments that connect to the neck and head, whereas there is no indication that Ouranosaurus, Spinosaurus, or the other sail-backs needed extra support and power in the neck region. (If this were the case, and dinosaur humps contained muscles to support the head and give the neck more power, then it is odd that huge-headed dinosaurs like Tyrannosaurus did not have a similar adaptation.) Nor is there any indication that Spinosaurus had a body adapted to walking on all fours, although Ouranosaurus likely shared the ability of its hadrosauroid relatives in being able to switch between two- and four-legged locomotion."
Yeah, a lion coexists with more fearsome predators than a polar bear so it is more powerful. :Applause: very LOGICAL agains !! STOP supporting Spinosaurus without proof, you're becoming biased because of this dude
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| Jinfengopteryx | Sep 9 2012, 02:01 AM Post #434 |
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Aspiring paleontologist, science enthusiast and armchair speculative fiction/evolution writer
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I also don't really agree with 2t for that sawfish, because on many images I've seen, it was very slender: http://www.terre-a-terre.fr/DOCUMENTS/Dutheil%20_2009-NAVEP1_Onchopristis.pdf theropod statet it's scaled up from modern sawfish.
Why should T rex try to LIFT Triecratops? And do you think it would struggle as hard as fish?
Won't that be too heavy for Spinosaurus? |
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| SpinoInWonderland | Sep 9 2012, 02:05 AM Post #435 |
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The madness has come back...
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Cau is a case of fanboyism in scientists...12.5 meters!? Really? And take theropod's advise and go back to wikipedia! |
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