| Welcome to Carnivora. We hope you enjoy your visit. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| Spinosaurus aegyptiacus v Tyrannosaurus rex | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM (459,352 Views) | |
| Wolf Eagle | Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM Post #1 |
![]()
M E G A P H Y S E T E R
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Tyrannosaurus rex Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes. ![]() Spinosaurus aegyptiacus Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur which lived in what is now North Africa, from the lower Albian to lower Cenomanian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 97 million years ago. Spinosaurus may be the largest of all known carnivorous dinosaurs, even larger than Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus. Estimates published in 2005 and 2007 suggest that it was 12.6 to 18 metres (41 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 20.9 tonnes (7.7 to 23.0 short tons) in weight. The skull of Spinosaurus was long and narrow like that of a modern crocodilian. Spinosaurus is thought to have eaten fish; evidence suggests that it lived both on land and in water like a modern crocodilian. The distinctive spines of Spinosaurus, which were long extensions of the vertebrae, grew to at least 1.65 meters (5.4 ft) long and were likely to have had skin connecting them, forming a sail-like structure, although some authors have suggested that the spines were covered in fat and formed a hump. Multiple functions have been put forward for this structure, including thermoregulation and display. Dal Sasso et al. (2005) assumed that Spinosaurus and Suchomimus had the same body proportions in relation to their skull lengths, and thereby calculated that Spinosaurus was 16 to 18 meters (52 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 9 tonnes (7.7 to 9.9 short tons) in weight. The Dal Sasso et al. estimates were criticized because the skull length estimate was uncertain, and (assuming that body mass increases as the cube of body length) scaling Suchomimus which was 11 meters (36 ft) long and 3.8 tonnes (4.2 short tons) in mass to the range of estimated lengths of Spinosaurus would produce an estimated body mass of 11.7 to 16.7 tonnes (12.9 to 18.4 short tons).
Edited by Taipan, Apr 24 2015, 10:10 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| Replies: | |
|---|---|
| Grey | Sep 9 2012, 02:06 AM Post #436 |
|
Kleptoparasite
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Cau had stated this on his blog in italian language. I'll get more about. |
![]() |
|
| SpinoInWonderland | Sep 9 2012, 02:07 AM Post #437 |
|
The madness has come back...
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Grey, you realize that you are using conservatives for other theropods while using upper estimates for T. rex, that's a fanboy tactic |
![]() |
|
| Jinfengopteryx | Sep 9 2012, 02:13 AM Post #438 |
![]()
Aspiring paleontologist, science enthusiast and armchair speculative fiction/evolution writer
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I'll start researching. |
![]() |
|
| TheROC | Sep 9 2012, 02:15 AM Post #439 |
|
Herbivore
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
http://www.elasmo-research.org/education/topics/r_big_fish_stories.htm The 2 ton+ estimate is correct. As the link above tells us, a 5.18 meter smalltooth sawfish (a slender sawfish from which Onchopristis' silhouette is derived) weighed 590 kg. Meaning an 8 meter version would weigh 2173.37 kg (4781 lbs). That is less than what an 8 meter shark would weigh regardless, so the mention of slenderness is redundant. |
![]() |
|
| Grey | Sep 9 2012, 02:16 AM Post #440 |
|
Kleptoparasite
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Jinfengopteryx, http://theropoda.blogspot.fr/2012/03/il-fallace-e-fallico-mito-dei-17-metri.html Broly, if there is something I have learnt here, it's that it is unwise to discuss with you, your only argumentation is the "F" word, in any sense. I had actually voted for Spinosaurus. Edited by Grey, Sep 9 2012, 02:17 AM.
|
![]() |
|
| theropod | Sep 9 2012, 02:17 AM Post #441 |
|
palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I really don´t think it is reasonable to make the skull any smaller than the 1,75m, just look at the size of the rostrum. the posterior part would have to be diproportionally short. and I don´t see how an animal with a 1,75m skull should be 12,5m when it´s relatives and the few postcranial remains actually indicate something far larger. if Cau thinks no theropod actually exceeded 13m that´s just so utterly conservative I can´t believe it. that assumption alone for animals of which we knostly only know a few individuals is pretty questionable. so far the published lenghts remain the one from the Dal sasso paper, and that from the Therrien & henderson paper. I don´t think it is really necesary to explain which one is the better one. and I want to recall that believing what someone states jsut because you think he is more reliable is a....very questionable approach. |
![]() |
|
| Jinfengopteryx | Sep 9 2012, 02:21 AM Post #442 |
![]()
Aspiring paleontologist, science enthusiast and armchair speculative fiction/evolution writer
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Here some of Cau's reconstructions: http://qilong.wordpress.com/2011/02/22/spinosaurus-a-hint/ |
![]() |
|
| Grey | Sep 9 2012, 02:23 AM Post #443 |
|
Kleptoparasite
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I posted his blog, what about discuss with him ? Cau apparently gives a bigger-headed animal in proportion of the body and others anatomical analysis. I read any experts approach, but Cau has credential. I don't favor totally his work but is there another theropod specialized researcher who has actually debunked him, especially as his update is ver recent ? You favor others estimate, right, I simply suggest it would be interesting to see more in Cau's works. Why judge my approach questionnable ? And who are you exactly for judge my approach ? And yes, dear Theropod, I would ever ever favor any paleontologist research over yours. Edited by Grey, Sep 9 2012, 02:29 AM.
|
![]() |
|
| theropod | Sep 9 2012, 02:29 AM Post #444 |
|
palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
see jinfengs post, luckily he has already given the link as I searched for it and couldn´t find it. 2t for an 8m sawfish are absolutely correct.
A hump, while still more plausible than a sail, would be too heavy for a bipedal. it doesn´t need to be very massive to be a good muscle attachment, but for storing enough fat for the mere evolution to make sense it would have to be too thick and heavy. Also this would mean the much flatter crest od suchomimus for example was also for fat storage, does that sound reasonable? I doubt that while other spinosaurs evolved morphologically so similar spines spinosaurus´ ones served a completely different purpose.
Since when do lions coexist with more fearsome predators than bears, and especially, since when are any of those fearsome enough to match the bear itself? Spinosaurus coexisted with predators that were an enourmous thread, and it itself was a piscivore and thus didn´t necessarily need particularly strong weapons to bring down it´s prey. You are jsut denying that it could possibly need strong dorsal muscles, even tough it had to defend itself. all I´m saying is that jsut because it´s prey wasn´t so dangerous it wouldn´t necessarily be such a weak creature as you state. this is not about comparing it to t. rex, just about making clear to you that your argument "spinosaurus was a fish eater, so it didn´t need such things as muscles, but of course herbivores need them to defend themselves" is BS. STOP calling people biased just because you think it´s unlikely for anything to rival T. rex! So, and now I´mm really confused because you can misunderstand so many things that I then have to explain over and over again! |
![]() |
|
| theropod | Sep 9 2012, 02:34 AM Post #445 |
|
palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
First of all, what I find questionable is this "when Cau states it it´s likely true". of course nobody has yet debunked it, first of all the palaeontologists have to lear italian or learn understnad the sentences google translator translates them, and let´s not forget that this estimate isn´t actually published as a paper. Of course it is interesting to see his work, but you have seen my reasons why I´m sceptical. And your last comment was simply too much, I´ll ignore your posts from now on. can´t you reply to me a single time without such remarks? |
![]() |
|
| Grey | Sep 9 2012, 02:39 AM Post #446 |
|
Kleptoparasite
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Actually you're the first to have posted an idiotic remark about my suggestion. You're so unable to question your belief that you attack immediately my approach or the credential of the source I provide. I only suggested that another expert in theropods has another figures. Cau works are known among paleontologists, and he often discusses in english in other blogs from other authorities. His blog is not a published paper but it is an actual updated trace of his works and the works of others about theropods. You should question him, not me. |
![]() |
|
| Fragillimus335 | Sep 9 2012, 02:41 AM Post #447 |
|
Omnivore
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
A sail would be a nuisance to such a large, warm-blooded creature. Especially one living in a warm environment. A fat hump would be too massive, so that logically leaves a ridge like crest. |
![]() |
|
| theropod | Sep 9 2012, 02:44 AM Post #448 |
|
palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
here´s your problem, you are unable to differentiate between a doubt cast on something you provided and a personal attack. and then, when you are disagreeing with me all the time, you expect me to be patient. consider this my last response to one of your posts |
![]() |
|
| theropod | Sep 9 2012, 02:46 AM Post #449 |
|
palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
that´s exactly my and jinfengs argument for the crest, and then people regard it as the unproven assumption more so than the sail, obviously only because they can´t believe a fish eater was muscular or because the sail is the traditional depiction. |
![]() |
|
| Grey | Sep 9 2012, 02:55 AM Post #450 |
|
Kleptoparasite
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I suggested Cau's works and instead of ask about his analysis, you directly judge him (you judge any expert who not provides your view) and attack me because I only said that Cau is a reliable researcher. I'm just the messager and I suggest to Theropod, the great specialist, to question the actual professionnal. |
![]() |
|
| 2 users reading this topic (2 Guests and 0 Anonymous) | |
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · Dinosauria Interspecific Conflict · Next Topic » |
| Theme: Dinosauria light | Track Topic · E-mail Topic |
2:24 AM Jul 14
|
Powered by ZetaBoards Premium · Privacy Policy


)



![]](http://z4.ifrm.com/static/1/pip_r.png)






2:24 AM Jul 14