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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus v Tyrannosaurus rex
Topic Started: Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM (459,346 Views)
Wolf Eagle
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M E G A P H Y S E T E R
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Tyrannosaurus rex
Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes.

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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus
Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur which lived in what is now North Africa, from the lower Albian to lower Cenomanian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 97 million years ago. Spinosaurus may be the largest of all known carnivorous dinosaurs, even larger than Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus. Estimates published in 2005 and 2007 suggest that it was 12.6 to 18 metres (41 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 20.9 tonnes (7.7 to 23.0 short tons) in weight. The skull of Spinosaurus was long and narrow like that of a modern crocodilian. Spinosaurus is thought to have eaten fish; evidence suggests that it lived both on land and in water like a modern crocodilian. The distinctive spines of Spinosaurus, which were long extensions of the vertebrae, grew to at least 1.65 meters (5.4 ft) long and were likely to have had skin connecting them, forming a sail-like structure, although some authors have suggested that the spines were covered in fat and formed a hump. Multiple functions have been put forward for this structure, including thermoregulation and display. Dal Sasso et al. (2005) assumed that Spinosaurus and Suchomimus had the same body proportions in relation to their skull lengths, and thereby calculated that Spinosaurus was 16 to 18 meters (52 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 9 tonnes (7.7 to 9.9 short tons) in weight. The Dal Sasso et al. estimates were criticized because the skull length estimate was uncertain, and (assuming that body mass increases as the cube of body length) scaling Suchomimus which was 11 meters (36 ft) long and 3.8 tonnes (4.2 short tons) in mass to the range of estimated lengths of Spinosaurus would produce an estimated body mass of 11.7 to 16.7 tonnes (12.9 to 18.4 short tons).

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Edited by Taipan, Apr 24 2015, 10:10 PM.
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Replies:
Shaochilong
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Herbivore
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Grey
Sep 11 2012, 05:45 AM
Lord of the Allosaurs
Sep 11 2012, 05:41 AM
Grey
Sep 11 2012, 05:28 AM
You're a new member, you should check at his history before make conclusions.
I have been checking his history, and I see him underrating Tyrannosaurus.
However, he is correct in that using the most conservative estimates for one animal and not the other is not really fair.
It is a matter of fact that this member hates Tyrannosaurus, he mades it the weakest of all the large theropods.

His comments when I, or another, suggests something favoring Tyrannosaurus, is typically the "F-Boy" word. You are here since few days, I don't think you can give lessons about the approach of members at now, no offense.
None taken.

But back on topic, are we in agreement that either Tyrannosaurus or Spinosaurus could win?
Edited by Shaochilong, Sep 11 2012, 05:50 AM.
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Fragillimus335
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I for one love all those big, mean, old theropods, I just happen to think Spinosaurus would win at average weights. 16 vs 7 tons, and at maximum, 18 vs 9.5 tons.
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Grey
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If Spinosaurus reaching 17 m is valid, it is easily the most powerful land carnivore known.

Now, if Cau's suggestions are correct, especially with a short-legged figure,, Tyrannosaurus has the upper hand.

However, until more evidences come, I would more likely still consider Spinosaurus as the biggest, toughest terrestrial predator.
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Verdugo
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Large Carnivores Enthusiast
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Fragillimus335
Sep 10 2012, 11:21 PM
Verdugo
Sep 10 2012, 10:49 PM
theropod
Sep 10 2012, 10:36 PM
Fragillimus335
Sep 10 2012, 05:11 AM
theropod
Sep 10 2012, 04:50 AM
Fragillimus, you wrote you where studying in Iowa and one of your professors was involved in describing sue.
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/3889334?uid=3737528&uid=2134&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&sid=21101033415853

I think I know whom you mean ;-)
Do you have acess to that paper? I couldn´t find any photos of sue´s phalanges, but I suspect the paper probably contains some.

it´d be interesting to see a comparison of UCMP 137538 and the pes of FMNH PR2081
Your wish is my command :D

Some great figures from the paper!!!
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And the mysterious UCMP 137538!
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Sorry, but unfortunately my browser doesn´t display those images, and when I try to open them it just gives me the abstract page.
thanks for the efford anyway!


@Fragilimus: Theropod is not the only person that can't see those images, i can't see it either (only the last pic is displayed). I think you should reupload your images :D
It might be because they are from a paper that I can only access through my university.  :'( Try this.
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Better?
Very nice, thank you ! :D . That is much better, where did you get that from ??
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Fragillimus335
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They are from the paper in the link, around page ~120-130. I have to say that toe bone doesn't fit in to well with any bone in Sue.
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theropod
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very true, seems like every assignment is pretty speculative here, and it seems overally to be very robust. Maybe an individual that´s bulkier than sue, but depending on which phalanx it is not necessarily as large as it would be when it is IV-2.
Edited by theropod, Sep 12 2012, 12:41 AM.
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Palaeogirl
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At parity T.rex 80/20, at Maximum size (19.4 meter estimate is the largest I've heard) I'd give it to Spino 90/10. I'd love to say Spinosaurus would win every time, I like it a lot more, but at a similar size range the Tyrannosaurid is simply too much.
Edited by Palaeogirl, Sep 14 2012, 11:42 AM.
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ArachnidKid
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Jinfengopteryx
Sep 9 2012, 04:55 PM
I know, it's nice.
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Guess it wasn't clear that i was joking so this was necessary,Anyways i'm more of an Insect kind of guy but i think after reading the facts provided i have to vote rex.
Edited by ArachnidKid, Sep 14 2012, 04:31 PM.
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Jinfengopteryx
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ArachnidKid
Sep 14 2012, 04:29 PM
Jinfengopteryx
Sep 9 2012, 04:55 PM
I know, it's nice.
Posted Image

Guess it wasn't clear that i was joking so this was necessary,Anyways i'm more of an Insect kind of guy but i think after reading the facts provided i have to vote rex.
I just said card maker is nice, what's the meaning of the image? Card maker sucks or what?
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CrazyFish
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6 tonnes vs 13 tonnes? This isn't even fair, despite what Tyrannosaurus fanboys would like to think. You don't take on something with a bigger head, bigger teeth, gigantic arms and enough mass to flatten you and live to tell the tale.
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Fragillimus335
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Not to mention an adult Spinosaurus probably weighed a good bit more than 13 tons.
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Drift
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CrazyFish
Sep 17 2012, 09:29 AM
6 tonnes vs 13 tonnes? This isn't even fair, despite what Tyrannosaurus fanboys would like to think. You don't take on something with a bigger head, bigger teeth, gigantic arms and enough mass to flatten you and live to tell the tale.
When an animal has a bigger head,bigger teeth, gigantic arms you must assume it will win? I first must say T-rex teeth outclass its opponents teeth in this bout so your reasoning is already seeming faulty, Thicker and made to utterly crush bone with its bite its rather deadly.The same cannot be said for Spino, It wouldn't be the same result but it wouldn't be anything to ignore if it were to try to attack as well. Sounds like you are relying on aesthetically pleasing bias to choose which shall be the victor, I myself choose to look at the facts regardless of physical appearances and there aren't many i can find about the Spinosaur that haven't been altered by the fanboys.Many figures for it are overestimated, whereas we have IMO a good amount of solid data on T-rex to safely say it would win here
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theropod
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if an animal is twice the weight, with bigger head, huge arms, far superior body strrenght-yes, then that ought to make it win. actually considering the size I´m more and more starting to believe it was probably indeed the most formidable theropod ever, though I think there are some that would fare somewhat better agaisnt it than rexy...

the good amount of solid data consists solely of.....a stronger bite force (with spinos bite not being that weak either though)
if you think the data about spinosaurus had been altered by the fanboys, what about the data about T. rex, like the "25t bite" or the "16m T. rex"?
the facts about spinosaurus are that it was most likely much bigger.
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Jinfengopteryx
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theropod
Sep 24 2012, 03:06 AM
or the "16m T. rex"?
Well, that has a base, even tough a bad.
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Fragillimus335
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This fight is literally like comparing a 65 lb pit-bull and a 150 pound black bear. The dog has a good bite, and is a little more agile, but it is hugely outclassed in every other aspect.
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