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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus v Tyrannosaurus rex
Topic Started: Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM (459,344 Views)
Wolf Eagle
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M E G A P H Y S E T E R
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Tyrannosaurus rex
Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes.

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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus
Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur which lived in what is now North Africa, from the lower Albian to lower Cenomanian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 97 million years ago. Spinosaurus may be the largest of all known carnivorous dinosaurs, even larger than Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus. Estimates published in 2005 and 2007 suggest that it was 12.6 to 18 metres (41 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 20.9 tonnes (7.7 to 23.0 short tons) in weight. The skull of Spinosaurus was long and narrow like that of a modern crocodilian. Spinosaurus is thought to have eaten fish; evidence suggests that it lived both on land and in water like a modern crocodilian. The distinctive spines of Spinosaurus, which were long extensions of the vertebrae, grew to at least 1.65 meters (5.4 ft) long and were likely to have had skin connecting them, forming a sail-like structure, although some authors have suggested that the spines were covered in fat and formed a hump. Multiple functions have been put forward for this structure, including thermoregulation and display. Dal Sasso et al. (2005) assumed that Spinosaurus and Suchomimus had the same body proportions in relation to their skull lengths, and thereby calculated that Spinosaurus was 16 to 18 meters (52 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 9 tonnes (7.7 to 9.9 short tons) in weight. The Dal Sasso et al. estimates were criticized because the skull length estimate was uncertain, and (assuming that body mass increases as the cube of body length) scaling Suchomimus which was 11 meters (36 ft) long and 3.8 tonnes (4.2 short tons) in mass to the range of estimated lengths of Spinosaurus would produce an estimated body mass of 11.7 to 16.7 tonnes (12.9 to 18.4 short tons).

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Edited by Taipan, Apr 24 2015, 10:10 PM.
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Jinfengopteryx
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Aspiring paleontologist, science enthusiast and armchair speculative fiction/evolution writer
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Grey
Sep 24 2012, 10:58 PM
I favor Spinosaurus over Tyrannosaurus you genius !
Haven't you changed your mind, after reading Cau's blog?
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TheROC
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Question guys, has there been any update on the Spinosaurus hindlimbs that were supposedly found? (Which the Italian life-reconstruction is based off of?)

I thought there was supposed to be a paper on it this year, yet 2012 is nearly gone.
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Grey
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TheROC
Sep 24 2012, 11:11 PM
Question guys, has there been any update on the Spinosaurus hindlimbs that were supposedly found? (Which the Italian life-reconstruction is based off of?)

I thought there was supposed to be a paper on it this year, yet 2012 is nearly gone.
It is planned for summer 2014 apparently. Yes, quite a while...
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SpinoInWonderland
The madness has come back...
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Paper or no paper, unless you can prove that the specimens are of similar size, don't put parts of a specimen on another specimen just to "complete" the latter, because by doing so, you may be distorting the proportions since different specimens have different sizes. Scale from related spinosaurids instead...
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Grey
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Jinfengopteryx
Sep 24 2012, 11:10 PM
Grey
Sep 24 2012, 10:58 PM
I favor Spinosaurus over Tyrannosaurus you genius !
Haven't you changed your mind, after reading Cau's blog?
No, I never said Cau leds me to revise my opinion, only that Cau's suggestions show that nothing is definitive concerning Spinosaurus size until more complete material is found.

Of course, the ridiculous fanatics T.rex haters quickly confused this with changing of mind.
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Grey
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brolyeuphyfusion
Sep 24 2012, 11:16 PM
Paper or no paper, unless you can prove that the specimens are of similar size, don't put parts of a specimen on another specimen just to "complete" the latter, because by doing so, you may be distorting the proportions since different specimens have different sizes. Scale from related spinosaurids instead...
Nobody here used this paper, it is under study at now. We'll know more in two years.
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SpinoInWonderland
The madness has come back...
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If they are wise, they'll likely assign the legs to a new different Spinosaurus specimen, a smaller one at that...
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Jinfengopteryx
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Grey
Sep 24 2012, 11:16 PM
Of course, the ridiculous fanatics T.rex haters quickly confused this with changing of mind.
If I were a T-rex hater, I won't favour it over a similar sized Torvosaurus.
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Verdugo
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Fragillimus335
Sep 24 2012, 10:58 PM
In my scale I'm comparing a 12.2 meter Tyrannosaurus, which would be in the top 5 largest Tyrannosaurs known to science, even if we include some of the dubious freaks, with an 18 meter Spinosaurus. A slightly above average estimate of the only adult Spinosaurus specimen we have.

Does this make you feel any better, this scale shows the largest confirmed Tyrannosaurus known to science, Sue- 12.3 meters, with an average ~16.8 meter Spinosaurus.
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Guess who still wins.
Honestly, if Sue is 8 tonnes, so how much is Broly's Spino, 40 tonnes or 50 tonnes.

@Theropod: I thought you don't trust the 20 tonnes Spino because it is too heavy, now i realize that you actually trust the 40-50 tonnes Spino. lol lol

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SpinoInWonderland
The madness has come back...
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The Spinosaurus looks larger than it actually is, because of the spine. I actually go by Planet Dinosaur's figures for Spinosaurus, 17 meters and 11 tonnes...Also, try using Scott Hartman's Tyrannosaurus and see what you'll get...

And I go by 6 tonnes for Tyrannosaurus...
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Grey
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brolyeuphyfusion
Sep 24 2012, 11:20 PM
If they are wise, they'll likely assign the legs to a new different Spinosaurus specimen, a smaller one at that...
They're studying it ! They will able to ultimately determine if it belongs to a full grown adult or not, another species or not ! You cannot claim anything at now.

Using your logic, the partial snout found by Dal Sasso could be anything.
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Grey
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Jinfengopteryx
Sep 24 2012, 11:29 PM
Grey
Sep 24 2012, 11:16 PM
Of course, the ridiculous fanatics T.rex haters quickly confused this with changing of mind.
If I were a T-rex hater, I won't favour it over a similar sized Torvosaurus.
I wasn't thinking about you, your signature is enough.
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Black Ice
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Fragillimus335
Sep 24 2012, 03:57 PM
Verdugo
Sep 24 2012, 02:36 PM
Fragillimus335
Sep 24 2012, 04:39 AM
This fight is literally like comparing a 65 lb pit-bull and a 150 pound black bear. The dog has a good bite, and is a little more agile, but it is hugely outclassed in every other aspect.
Honestly, Spinosaurus is nowhere near as formidable as black bear, that one bad comparison. Black bear has more powerful bite than pit bull, thicker fur, hide, much bulkier -> more durable, superior grappler while pit-bull has no grappling ability, not to mention that bear is INCREDIBLY agile for their size, a PACK of wolves are unable to out maneuver 1 grizzly. Black bear outclassed in ALL aspect, black bear still win most of the time even at equal size. While Spino would lose to T rex nearly 100% if they are the same size.

You underrated bear A LOT, do you need some facts to prove bear TRUE power ??
I think bears are very powerful! I was illustrating the amount of a mismatch this battle is by comparing the combatants to modern day animals.

An 18 meter Spinosaurus and a 12.2 meter Tyrannosaurus. Spinosaurus is just to big for Tyrannosaurus, mismatch, Spino 95%.
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Spino by Broly
:huh: yep spino takes this.
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TheROC
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That hip height difference is too much for me. It's clearly well over a meter taller in that scale.

At the same time, its not that far from reality if one scales using the proportions of suchomimus and such.

I don't know. This height issue is the main thing that decides this fight, as there may be an immense mass difference to come from it, not to mention the offensive possibilities height differences bring.

If Spinosaurus is indeed that much taller, over even somewhat less than that (like only 1 meter taller at the hip), then it clearly wins. It would have a marked strength advantage, and would be tall enough to attack the T.Rex's neck while avoiding being attacked itself there. If Spinosaurus ends up extremely short-legged proportionately, and thus the same hip height (or lower), it would clearly lose, no questions.




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Grey
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TheROC
Sep 25 2012, 12:28 AM
That hip height difference is too much for me. It's clearly well over a meter taller in that scale.

At the same time, its not that far from reality if one scales using the proportions of suchomimus and such.

I don't know. This height issue is the main thing that decides this fight, as there may be an immense mass difference to come from it, not to mention the offensive possibilities height differences bring.

If Spinosaurus is indeed that much taller, over even somewhat less than that (like only 1 meter taller at the hip), then it clearly wins. It would have a marked strength advantage, and would be tall enough to attack the T.Rex's neck while avoiding being attacked itself there. If Spinosaurus ends up extremely short-legged proportionately, and thus the same hip height (or lower), it would clearly lose, no questions.




I agree.

For now I will rely on the reconstitution in Planet Dinosaur for Spinosaurus, awaiting updates. It is too soon for claim anything definitive at now.


IMO, using the available material and plausible extrapolations, Spinosaurus is the only large theropod that has real realistic advantages in a match up against T.rex.
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