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| Spinosaurus aegyptiacus v Tyrannosaurus rex | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM (459,342 Views) | |
| Wolf Eagle | Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM Post #1 |
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M E G A P H Y S E T E R
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Tyrannosaurus rex Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes. ![]() Spinosaurus aegyptiacus Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur which lived in what is now North Africa, from the lower Albian to lower Cenomanian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 97 million years ago. Spinosaurus may be the largest of all known carnivorous dinosaurs, even larger than Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus. Estimates published in 2005 and 2007 suggest that it was 12.6 to 18 metres (41 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 20.9 tonnes (7.7 to 23.0 short tons) in weight. The skull of Spinosaurus was long and narrow like that of a modern crocodilian. Spinosaurus is thought to have eaten fish; evidence suggests that it lived both on land and in water like a modern crocodilian. The distinctive spines of Spinosaurus, which were long extensions of the vertebrae, grew to at least 1.65 meters (5.4 ft) long and were likely to have had skin connecting them, forming a sail-like structure, although some authors have suggested that the spines were covered in fat and formed a hump. Multiple functions have been put forward for this structure, including thermoregulation and display. Dal Sasso et al. (2005) assumed that Spinosaurus and Suchomimus had the same body proportions in relation to their skull lengths, and thereby calculated that Spinosaurus was 16 to 18 meters (52 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 9 tonnes (7.7 to 9.9 short tons) in weight. The Dal Sasso et al. estimates were criticized because the skull length estimate was uncertain, and (assuming that body mass increases as the cube of body length) scaling Suchomimus which was 11 meters (36 ft) long and 3.8 tonnes (4.2 short tons) in mass to the range of estimated lengths of Spinosaurus would produce an estimated body mass of 11.7 to 16.7 tonnes (12.9 to 18.4 short tons).
Edited by Taipan, Apr 24 2015, 10:10 PM.
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| Gecko | Sep 25 2012, 02:20 AM Post #586 |
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Autotrophic Organism
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Here's Sue using the meter bar from here.![]() @Verdugo that scale is outdated I screwed up on the metergrid in the background. |
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| Verdugo | Sep 25 2012, 02:27 AM Post #587 |
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Large Carnivores Enthusiast
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Oh sorry man, i didn't know that, i thought that was your scale bar . The scale bar actually belongs to Fragillimus, i'm no surprise here, Fragillimus scale bar is always biased toward Spinosaurus@Gecko: Ok, so Sue is still close to ~ 4m tall anyway |
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| Jinfengopteryx | Sep 25 2012, 02:29 AM Post #588 |
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Aspiring paleontologist, science enthusiast and armchair speculative fiction/evolution writer
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Well, I counted the sqares on the image for Sue and it were a bit less than 12m(same with Gecko's image), so if we stretch Sue to 12,3m, Spinosaurus also get's bigger. Just count the squares, 1 square=1m(based on the 10m scale, they showed at Spinosaurus). |
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| Verdugo | Sep 25 2012, 02:37 AM Post #589 |
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Large Carnivores Enthusiast
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No, you have to measure along the curve of the back of an animal, not just in straight line from snout to tip. So the image of Sue should be ~ 12,3m "But to be fair here, remember that technically you are supposed to measure along the curve of the back of the animal, which is longer than just measuring a straight line from snout to tail tip." Hartman |
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| Jinfengopteryx | Sep 25 2012, 02:39 AM Post #590 |
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Aspiring paleontologist, science enthusiast and armchair speculative fiction/evolution writer
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Well, than Spinosaurus is clearly longer, than 16m, on his image, just could the sqares and add the extra. |
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| Gecko | Sep 25 2012, 02:53 AM Post #591 |
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Autotrophic Organism
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Here's Spinosaurus from Shartman if we use the meter bar. This represents the holotype.
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| Fragillimus335 | Sep 25 2012, 03:10 AM Post #592 |
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Omnivore
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I don't think bigger animals have proportionally shorter legs, they have proportionally thicker legs. Ex: An Elands legs are just as proportionally long as a Thomson's gazelle's legs, just thicker. |
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| 7Alx | Sep 25 2012, 03:23 AM Post #593 |
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Herbivore
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Based on ~131 cm femur. Sue is around 3.8 m tall at hips with straight legs and ~3.6 m in neutral posture. In real life it would be even slightly taller due cartilage and flesh. ![]() Ps. Based on 138 cm femur Sue's hip height is around 4 m with straight legs. |
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| genao87 | Sep 25 2012, 03:29 AM Post #594 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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I just hope that Cau's calculations to Spino' short legs is not true. I would hate to see Spino with such short legs like that, it would be like an alligator but with 4 legs it seems since it is so low. |
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| Fragillimus335 | Sep 25 2012, 03:34 AM Post #595 |
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Omnivore
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It will probably be unimportant. It is very unlikely that the smaller legs came from an animal the same size as MSNM V4047. That's like finding Allosaurus's legs, putting them on Saurophaganax and then saying Saurophaganax was super short. |
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| theropod | Sep 25 2012, 03:51 AM Post #596 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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no, I don´t trust it, but that´s because I don´t trust an 8t sue either. imo those weights are complete overestimates and unlikely for a bipedal |
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| TheROC | Sep 25 2012, 04:09 AM Post #597 |
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Herbivore
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No. Here; ![]() We see Sue here, suspended off the floor by at least a foot, with those people as references. The guy furthest to the right in the blue jacket, is the one most level with Sue's 'planted' foot. If you stack two of those guys on top of each other, and make him level with Sue's planted foot, you'd see that two of them would be slightly higher than where Sue's hip is at its tallest. (Granted, you'd have to account for Sue being tilted forward a little, but once you account for that, you'd see it would be equal); ![]() If Sue is meant to be 3.8 meters tall at the hip with bent legs, if we go by Hartman's scale bar for Sue, then that guy would have to be about 1.9 meters tall--or 6'3". Which in turn means all of three of them would be well above average height for a human man in that picture. Not impossible, but, as you can see the guy is only a few inches longer than Sue's 1.4 meter skull. So that's not the case. Granted, not everything is completely square with the camera, I'll give you that. But this seals it; We are all familiar with this 3-D model yes? It was used in the recent T.rex weight calculation studies? This is an exact 3-D model of Sue. A scanned-in model, not a drawing, meaning its of utmost accuracy proportion wise. Notice how they decided to straighten the legs for their mass application to the skeleton. Notice also how the bones are spaced apart a little bit--(accounts for cartilage). Also notice that I drew a straight line through Sue's skull from snout to end and stacked 3 of them on top of each other. 1.4 meters x 3 is 4.2 meters long. Yet Sue's hip height is nowhere close to 4 meters tall. In fact, if you count the pixels, its only about 82.8% as tall as three skulls at 4.2 meters tall. Which means its 3.48 meters tall at the top of the illium there. Add in a tiny bit more height for the flesh that they add, you would have the 3.5 meter figure I originally gave. Edited by TheROC, Sep 25 2012, 04:10 AM.
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| Jinfengopteryx | Sep 25 2012, 04:11 AM Post #598 |
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Aspiring paleontologist, science enthusiast and armchair speculative fiction/evolution writer
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The extra lengh is well done, but I still think, the legs should be more muscular, than that. |
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| Grey | Sep 25 2012, 04:33 AM Post #599 |
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Kleptoparasite
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Instead of speculate, please wait that the research work is finished, the guys working on know their job. |
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| Gecko | Sep 25 2012, 04:52 AM Post #600 |
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Autotrophic Organism
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@ TheROC The people in your picture are closer to the camera than Sue is. Look at the guy on the ladder assuming he's 5'10 -5'11 Sue matches up with the 3.8 m height. EDIT: Better picture: ![]() Sue's head in the last picture is a little bigger because of the angle of the picture. You're also making Sue's skull too small, the 1.4 m is the correct size but it's measured from a different point. From Brochu's paper on Sue:
Edited by Gecko, Sep 25 2012, 05:03 AM.
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. The scale bar actually belongs to Fragillimus, i'm no surprise here, Fragillimus scale bar is always biased toward Spinosaurus









2:24 AM Jul 14