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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus v Tyrannosaurus rex
Topic Started: Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM (459,336 Views)
Wolf Eagle
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Tyrannosaurus rex
Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes.

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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus
Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur which lived in what is now North Africa, from the lower Albian to lower Cenomanian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 97 million years ago. Spinosaurus may be the largest of all known carnivorous dinosaurs, even larger than Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus. Estimates published in 2005 and 2007 suggest that it was 12.6 to 18 metres (41 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 20.9 tonnes (7.7 to 23.0 short tons) in weight. The skull of Spinosaurus was long and narrow like that of a modern crocodilian. Spinosaurus is thought to have eaten fish; evidence suggests that it lived both on land and in water like a modern crocodilian. The distinctive spines of Spinosaurus, which were long extensions of the vertebrae, grew to at least 1.65 meters (5.4 ft) long and were likely to have had skin connecting them, forming a sail-like structure, although some authors have suggested that the spines were covered in fat and formed a hump. Multiple functions have been put forward for this structure, including thermoregulation and display. Dal Sasso et al. (2005) assumed that Spinosaurus and Suchomimus had the same body proportions in relation to their skull lengths, and thereby calculated that Spinosaurus was 16 to 18 meters (52 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 9 tonnes (7.7 to 9.9 short tons) in weight. The Dal Sasso et al. estimates were criticized because the skull length estimate was uncertain, and (assuming that body mass increases as the cube of body length) scaling Suchomimus which was 11 meters (36 ft) long and 3.8 tonnes (4.2 short tons) in mass to the range of estimated lengths of Spinosaurus would produce an estimated body mass of 11.7 to 16.7 tonnes (12.9 to 18.4 short tons).

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Edited by Taipan, Apr 24 2015, 10:10 PM.
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theropod
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Yes, but those where already the lenghts THEY calculated with their flawed metodology basing on carnosaurs and tyrannosaurs, or not? The published estimates are 11m for suchomimus an 9,1 for baryonyx and those are the ones I´ll stick to, not the ones basing on the proportions of avetheropods and the slope that you get from a regression including them...
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Gecko
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Baryonyx published estimates vary from 8 m all the way to 12+ m. Suchmimus has the 10.31 m like you saw and Sereno gave it a ~11 m but also gave Baryonyx a 12+ m estimate. The differences between the estimates is how long they're restoring the tails. The size of the other bones don't change, just IMO I think the normal size tails make more sense. The 12 m Baryonyx would weigh just as much as 8 m one the only difference is the tail length.
Edited by Gecko, Oct 5 2012, 03:32 AM.
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theropod
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9,1 and 11m are the commonly accepted estimates, aren´t they? I have never ever read 12m for baryonyx. every single source I know states the specimen with that skull to be ~9m with other specimens possibly around 10m. suchomimus is commonly regarded as an 11m subadult, the onyl soruce that challenged that was the therrien and henderson paper...
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Fragillimus335
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The general trend is skull lengths between 1/9 and 1/10 of total body length. These would decrease to ~1/10 or less when we factor minimal cartilage into the skeleton. Based on this Spinosaurus was conservatively 16 meters or more. Most likely it was 17.5-18.5 meters long.
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7Alx
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Spinosaurus skull: 175 cm/150 cm
Based on Baryonyx (Sk 915 mm, length 9.1 m), ~17.4 m in length/ ~14.9 m in length
Based on Suchomimus (Sk 119 cm, length 11 m), ~16.2 m in length/ ~13.9 m in length
Suchomimus's skull 0,108 length of its body
Baryonyx's skull ~0,101 length of its body
14-17 m for largest known Spinosaurus specimen would be much more accurate than >18 m.
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Fragillimus335
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7Alx
Oct 5 2012, 05:05 AM
Spinosaurus skull: 175 cm/150 cm
Based on Baryonyx (Sk 915 mm, length 9.1 m), ~17.4 m in length/ ~14.9 m in length
Based on Suchomimus (Sk 119 cm, length 11 m), ~16.2 m in length/ ~13.9 m in length
Suchomimus's skull 0,108 length of its body
Baryonyx's skull ~0,101 length of its body
14-17 m for largest known Spinosaurus specimen would be much more accurate than >18 m.
Spinosaurus's skull was almost defiantly not less than 1.75 meters, and probably more. I think the most likely size for spinosaurus's skull is 1.9-1.95 meters long.
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A 1.95 meter Spinosaurus skull.
Don't the proportions look good?
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7Alx
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I think it is slightly too long. Where is paper that Spinosaurus had 1.95 m skull? I can see only 2 estimates for Spinosaurus skull, 1.75 m and 1.5 m.
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Verdugo
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7Alx
Oct 5 2012, 10:00 PM
I think it is slightly too long. Where is paper that Spinosaurus had 1.95 m skull? I can see only 2 estimates for Spinosaurus skull, 1.75 m and 1.5 m.
There is no paper about the 1,95m skull, no scientist, no expert, no study, no proof stated about the 1,95m skull. Fragillimus just made facts by himself rolleyes and that 1,95m has been criticized by Gecko like thousand times rolleyes
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Fragillimus335
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Verdugo
Oct 5 2012, 10:47 PM
7Alx
Oct 5 2012, 10:00 PM
I think it is slightly too long. Where is paper that Spinosaurus had 1.95 m skull? I can see only 2 estimates for Spinosaurus skull, 1.75 m and 1.5 m.
There is no paper about the 1,95m skull, no scientist, no expert, no study, no proof stated about the 1,95m skull. Fragillimus just made facts by himself rolleyes and that 1,95m has been criticized by Gecko like thousand times rolleyes
No, there is no paper describing this length, but that does not make it wrong. Many well informed people in the paleontological community have stated that the 1.75 meter estimate might be to short and cramped. Trust me 1.5 is ridiculously short, I tried making one that size, and it looks like a caricature.

Gecko complained because he thought I was putting another dinosaur over The Mighty Tyrannosaurus rex.
Edited by Fragillimus335, Oct 5 2012, 11:18 PM.
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7Alx
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In my opinion, 150 cm is slightly too short, but 175 cm would be ok and 195 cm is too long.
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Verdugo
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Quote:
 
Many well informed people in the paleontological community have stated that the 1.75 meter estimate might be to short


I don't see anyone stated that the 1,75m is too short. Source for your claim, please

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Trust me 1.5 is ridiculously short, I tried making one that size, and it looks like a caricature


The 1,5m is definitely wrong and has been criticized
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SpinoInWonderland
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There is no 195 cm Spinosaurus skull, the material points points out to a 175 cm skull
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Gecko
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Fragillimus335
Oct 5 2012, 11:16 PM
Gecko complained because he thought I was putting another dinosaur over The Mighty Tyrannosaurus rex.
I don't put certain dinosaurs over other dinosaurs, I like to follow what we have evidence for, I don't pull numbers out of nowhere just because I think a skull looks too short.

As of right now I can only find two people who think Spinosaurus was 17+ meters that's Dal Sasso and the theropod database (But I think he's just following the Dal Sasso's estimate).

If you want to live in your fantasy land where Spinosaurus is 20 tons/20 metes long and Sauropods are 300+ tons and are bigger than blue whales, be my guest, but keep it out of this thread because you have no evidence for it.
Edited by Gecko, Oct 6 2012, 12:33 AM.
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Fragillimus335
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Gecko
Oct 6 2012, 12:30 AM
Fragillimus335
Oct 5 2012, 11:16 PM
Gecko complained because he thought I was putting another dinosaur over The Mighty Tyrannosaurus rex.
I don't put certain dinosaurs over other dinosaurs, I like to follow what we have evidence for, I don't pull numbers out of nowhere just because I think a skull looks too short.

As of right now I can only find two people who think Spinosaurus was 17+ meters that's Dal Sasso and the theropod database (But I think he's just following the Dal Sasso's estimate).

If you want to live in your fantasy land where Spinosaurus is 20 tons/20 metes long and Sauropods are 300+ tons and are bigger than blue whales, be my guest, but keep it out of this thread because you have no evidence for it.
Stop exaggerating, I believe Spinosaurus was 17.5-18.5 meters long, and 16-18 tons in weight. Also I have just as much proof as anyone claiming Spinosaurus was 14 meters.
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theropod
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Verdugo
Oct 5 2012, 10:47 PM
7Alx
Oct 5 2012, 10:00 PM
I think it is slightly too long. Where is paper that Spinosaurus had 1.95 m skull? I can see only 2 estimates for Spinosaurus skull, 1.75 m and 1.5 m.
There is no paper about the 1,95m skull, no scientist, no expert, no study, no proof stated about the 1,95m skull. Fragillimus just made facts by himself rolleyes and that 1,95m has been criticized by Gecko like thousand times rolleyes
like you are also making facts by yourself, for example "this skeletal is the most accurate" "this skull is wrong" "this guy is more reliable than this guy" "dr... stated it looked odd, that means it is inaccurate""everybody who believes spino was >16m is a fanboy because there is a skeletal which imo is the best that would indicate a smaller size"...

the best for now was your "in holtz´s captions spinosauroideans/megalosauroideans are described as long snouted altogether (in fact this was because it was typical for the later forms like many later carnosaurs where typically very large)-this means they where all long-snouted, exactly like his carnosaurs where all giant meat eaters"

this is what you are doing, having no evidence at all, makign it up and then criticising others because you think they are biased
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