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| Spinosaurus aegyptiacus v Tyrannosaurus rex | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM (459,331 Views) | |
| Wolf Eagle | Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM Post #1 |
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M E G A P H Y S E T E R
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Tyrannosaurus rex Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes. ![]() Spinosaurus aegyptiacus Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur which lived in what is now North Africa, from the lower Albian to lower Cenomanian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 97 million years ago. Spinosaurus may be the largest of all known carnivorous dinosaurs, even larger than Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus. Estimates published in 2005 and 2007 suggest that it was 12.6 to 18 metres (41 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 20.9 tonnes (7.7 to 23.0 short tons) in weight. The skull of Spinosaurus was long and narrow like that of a modern crocodilian. Spinosaurus is thought to have eaten fish; evidence suggests that it lived both on land and in water like a modern crocodilian. The distinctive spines of Spinosaurus, which were long extensions of the vertebrae, grew to at least 1.65 meters (5.4 ft) long and were likely to have had skin connecting them, forming a sail-like structure, although some authors have suggested that the spines were covered in fat and formed a hump. Multiple functions have been put forward for this structure, including thermoregulation and display. Dal Sasso et al. (2005) assumed that Spinosaurus and Suchomimus had the same body proportions in relation to their skull lengths, and thereby calculated that Spinosaurus was 16 to 18 meters (52 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 9 tonnes (7.7 to 9.9 short tons) in weight. The Dal Sasso et al. estimates were criticized because the skull length estimate was uncertain, and (assuming that body mass increases as the cube of body length) scaling Suchomimus which was 11 meters (36 ft) long and 3.8 tonnes (4.2 short tons) in mass to the range of estimated lengths of Spinosaurus would produce an estimated body mass of 11.7 to 16.7 tonnes (12.9 to 18.4 short tons).
Edited by Taipan, Apr 24 2015, 10:10 PM.
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| theropod | Oct 8 2012, 05:19 AM Post #751 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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misunderstanding then, my ton is exactly 1000kg |
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| SpinoInWonderland | Oct 8 2012, 11:32 AM Post #752 |
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The madness has come back...
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Your laser scanned skeleton estimate is flawed, don't use it. It assumes that Tyrannosaurus was a fat sausage. If you have seen the model that the estimate is based on, you'll see what I mean... Tyrannosaurus can't even hunt effectively at that level of fatness! |
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| Gecko | Oct 8 2012, 12:54 PM Post #753 |
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Autotrophic Organism
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How is it flawed? I agree the maximum weight is way too fat but the minimum weight (Which is 9502 kg) looks just fine. ![]() I know it's not the best example but a human's skeleton weighs about 14% of their total weight. If Sue's weight was even slightly similar it would put her in the 9-10 ton range. (Sue's skeleton weighs 3,922 lbs) @theropod my bad too, I forgot there is 2 different tons. |
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| Verdugo | Oct 8 2012, 03:09 PM Post #754 |
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Large Carnivores Enthusiast
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Larger animal (Theropod dinosaur) usually have shorter legs than smaller animal. For example, Sue would have proportionately shorter leg than smaller specimens of T rex. But Spinosaurus would still likely to be taller anyway. But i recommended you should use an adult specimens of Spinosauridae to scale up the legs length, since juvenile theropod usually has longer legs than their adult. If you use the juvenile specimen to scale up, Spino legs length would likely to be overrestmated
I honestly don't know where do you get that 9,1 tonnes from ? The MIN mass from the new estimate is 9,5 tonnes, and the scientists from that study also stated that they would use the MIN mass as the best mass estimate of an animal because it's no good for a predator to get any heavier WRONG ??. Why was it wrong ?. Because Spino fanboys and T rex haters stated it was WRONG ?. The new estimate was done by many scientists like Hutchinson, Bates, Molnar, Allen, Makovicky and Dave Hone also supports this estimate. So all the scientists failed and 2 wandering guys online are the only one right here
![]() I think he seriously support the new estimate ![]() The new estimate actually doesn't make Sue much more robust than she really was ![]() ^ Sue is very robust and muscular built animal, even by T rex standard. The reason why Spino fanboys and T rex haters cannot accept this because they cannot image T rex would still be the king |
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| SpinoInWonderland | Oct 8 2012, 04:17 PM Post #755 |
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The madness has come back...
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If you guys use 9.1 tonnes for Tyrannosaurus, then we must use 20.7 tonnes for Spinosaurus. If you are gonna use a liberal estimate for Tyrannosaurus, then we must also use liberals for toher theropods, otherwise, it would be bias. Verdugo, the skeleton isn't the issue, it's how they fleshed it out, that's the issue. 9-tonne Tyrannosaurus is fat, fat, and more fat |
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| Grey | Oct 8 2012, 06:17 PM Post #756 |
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Kleptoparasite
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The problem is that this new estimate is not a liberal one but a conservative based on this method, 9,5 tons being the weight of the skinniest model. Of course, others theropods need too this application. However, I have the impression viewing the biologists comments and the pics that T.rex was really heavy built, with a wide chest, compared to the other guys. I don't know but I have to say the comparison Spinosaurus/Tyrannosaurus really stroke my mind. Despite the really long and dense skull of Spinosaurus, T.rex snout is really formidably built. Byt the way, I wonder if the head of T.rex wasn't even the heaviest of all theropods, seeing how wide and deep it is. Even adding the weight of all the teeth... |
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| Superpredator | Oct 8 2012, 06:54 PM Post #757 |
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Apex Predator
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It doesn't look like "fat, fat, and more fat", in fact it looks just about right, IMO (judging from the skeleton): ![]() Yes, the maximum weight is incredibly retarded and biased, but the minimum weight looks perfect IMO. |
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| SpinoInWonderland | Oct 8 2012, 07:25 PM Post #758 |
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The madness has come back...
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This new method is getting overused and overstated, I bet with that new method, Argentinosaurus would be larger than a blue whale...Grey, it is conservative in the standards of that method, but that method in itself, is a liberal one, just compare the model with Scott Hartman's Tyrannosaurus. Most estimates centered around 6 tonnes. |
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| Verdugo | Oct 8 2012, 08:04 PM Post #759 |
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Large Carnivores Enthusiast
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Why the skeleton isn't the issue ? Sue need to be at LEAST as robust as her skeleton, you cannot be skinnier than your skeleton, right ?. The new estimate put flesh wrap around the skeleton perfectly, i don't see any liberal part (i am talking about the MIN estimate of course). And i won't call it fat, it's actually muscles. Sue would like to be built like this in real life
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| SpinoInWonderland | Oct 8 2012, 08:13 PM Post #760 |
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The madness has come back...
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No, not COTD! That's the most inaccurate documentary ever! And many paleoartists managed to make Sue as robust as it's skeleton, without making it too massive. Look at Scott Hartman's version of Tyrannosaurus, that's what I imagine it to fleshed-out like. Edited by SpinoInWonderland, Oct 8 2012, 08:15 PM.
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| Carcharadon | Oct 8 2012, 11:03 PM Post #761 |
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Shark Toothed Reptile
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I can show you guys a much fatter estimate And i know what you guys are gonna say about this From Ultimate Debate - Round 5
20 tons..... heavier than Spinosaurus...... is enough to win
Edited by Carcharadon, Oct 8 2012, 11:03 PM.
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| Fragillimus335 | Oct 8 2012, 11:09 PM Post #762 |
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Omnivore
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Sue's skeleton is fossilized!!!! That makes it far heavier than it would have been in life!
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| Verdugo | Oct 8 2012, 11:29 PM Post #763 |
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Large Carnivores Enthusiast
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Yes, COTD is quite inaccurate, but i don't see any flaws with that picture, at least when compare to the new estimate
Sue could have built like that, but she wouldn't be lighter ![]() This a scale from Gecko based on Hartman reconstructions and scale bar so it wouldn't have any flaws here. Sue is clearly much more robust than Giganotosaurus holotype, bigger in whole dimension. Giganotosaurus is estimated to be ~ 6,5 tonnes ![]() ![]() It's REALLY HIGHLY UNLIKELY for Sue to weigh only as little as 6 tonnes like you suggested |
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| SpinoInWonderland | Oct 8 2012, 11:39 PM Post #764 |
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The madness has come back...
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Lol, an 18-tonne Sue would crack it's own legs on the spot, and collapse, leaving the Spinosaurus to just hit it until it dies
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| SpinoInWonderland | Oct 9 2012, 12:12 AM Post #765 |
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The madness has come back...
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![]() Click image for a larger view Tyrannosaurus = 12.25 meters long Spinosaurus = 17 meters long, 175 cm skull |
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