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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus v Tyrannosaurus rex
Topic Started: Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM (459,328 Views)
Wolf Eagle
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Tyrannosaurus rex
Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes.

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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus
Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur which lived in what is now North Africa, from the lower Albian to lower Cenomanian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 97 million years ago. Spinosaurus may be the largest of all known carnivorous dinosaurs, even larger than Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus. Estimates published in 2005 and 2007 suggest that it was 12.6 to 18 metres (41 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 20.9 tonnes (7.7 to 23.0 short tons) in weight. The skull of Spinosaurus was long and narrow like that of a modern crocodilian. Spinosaurus is thought to have eaten fish; evidence suggests that it lived both on land and in water like a modern crocodilian. The distinctive spines of Spinosaurus, which were long extensions of the vertebrae, grew to at least 1.65 meters (5.4 ft) long and were likely to have had skin connecting them, forming a sail-like structure, although some authors have suggested that the spines were covered in fat and formed a hump. Multiple functions have been put forward for this structure, including thermoregulation and display. Dal Sasso et al. (2005) assumed that Spinosaurus and Suchomimus had the same body proportions in relation to their skull lengths, and thereby calculated that Spinosaurus was 16 to 18 meters (52 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 9 tonnes (7.7 to 9.9 short tons) in weight. The Dal Sasso et al. estimates were criticized because the skull length estimate was uncertain, and (assuming that body mass increases as the cube of body length) scaling Suchomimus which was 11 meters (36 ft) long and 3.8 tonnes (4.2 short tons) in mass to the range of estimated lengths of Spinosaurus would produce an estimated body mass of 11.7 to 16.7 tonnes (12.9 to 18.4 short tons).

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Edited by Taipan, Apr 24 2015, 10:10 PM.
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Verdugo
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Quote:
 
it was a fish eater,


Fish eater ?. Spinosaurus did live like a crocodile, spend most of its life in the water, but it can't stay in the water forever, it would eventually have to come to land and support its own weight. Spino is just semi-aquatic animal, so it still has the limitation of a land animal, a bipedal. Live more in the water doesn't mean Spino should be heavier.

Quote:
 
T. rex was really 9,1t.


For the last time Theropod, it's 9,5 tonnes = 9500kg, not 9,1 tonnes = 9100kg. I really don't know where do you get that 9,1 tonnes from.

Quote:
 
other theropods would also be heavier than we tought


Maybe, i'm not sure until this new estimate is applied to all Theropod. Unfortunately, this estimate only applies for Theropod which have a pretty well-preserved skeleton so it can't be applied to Theropod like Spino until we find more material for it  :'(

Not all Theropod should get heavier when being applied this estimate. For example

Stan when using the 2009 estimate weighs up to 8 tonnes

Posted Image

Posted Image

But when using the 2011 estimate, Stan weighs only 6 tonnes

Posted Image
^ As you can see, it wrap around Stan better than the older 2009 estimate.

Posted Image

As far as i know, this new 2011 estimate is likely to be the most accurate method to estimate the mass of extinct animals, it wrap around an animal much better than the older 2009 laser imaging estimate.

Quote:
 
but far too low assuming


T rex best speed estimate is 18mph (~29km/h), but this speed estimate is applied for a smaller T rex than Sue, so Sue would be much slower than this in real life, it's not so surprising. BUT, Trike and some large Hadrosaur can also weighs as much as Sue and the would likely to be even slower than Sue was. Sue can still be a predator with that 9,5 tonnes mass

Quote:
 
this T. rex model does still seem too bulky imo


I think the problem is the skeletal reconstruction, do you think so ?. The model was wrapped perfectly with the skeleton
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SpinoInWonderland
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Verdugo
Oct 10 2012, 11:30 PM
Quote:
 
other theropods would also be heavier than we tought


Maybe, i'm not sure until this new estimate is applied to all Theropod. Unfortunately, this estimate only applies for Theropod which have a pretty well-preserved skeleton so it can't be applied to Theropod like Spino until we find more material for it  :'(
It can be used on Suchomimus though...
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Fragillimus335
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Verdugo
Oct 10 2012, 02:42 PM
Fragillimus335
Oct 10 2012, 02:40 PM
Yea, but it's grossly obese. It would not have been a powerful hunter at that weight, just a blob.
So your 20+ tonnes Spinosaurus was a sitting duck right ? rolleyes
Stop saying 20+ ton Spino.....I NEVER said I think Spino was 20 tons, I believe it was 14-18 tons and that is based on scaling a slender relative.
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SpinoInWonderland
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18 tonnes? Way too heavy for a bipedal. 14 tonnes is acceptable but not 18 tonnes...
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Fragillimus335
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brolyeuphyfusion
Oct 11 2012, 01:26 AM
18 tonnes? Way too heavy for a bipedal. 14 tonnes is acceptable but not 18 tonnes...
We have no idea what is "too heavy" for a biped, after all quadrupeds reached 100's of tons with only four legs, why not 18 with two??
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theropod
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Verdugo
Oct 10 2012, 11:30 PM
Quote:
 
it was a fish eater,


Fish eater ?. Spinosaurus did live like a crocodile, spend most of its life in the water, but it can't stay in the water forever, it would eventually have to come to land and support its own weight. Spino is just semi-aquatic animal, so it still has the limitation of a land animal, a bipedal. Live more in the water doesn't mean Spino should be heavier.

Quote:
 
T. rex was really 9,1t.


For the last time Theropod, it's 9,5 tonnes = 9500kg, not 9,1 tonnes = 9100kg. I really don't know where do you get that 9,1 tonnes from.

Quote:
 
other theropods would also be heavier than we tought


Maybe, i'm not sure until this new estimate is applied to all Theropod. Unfortunately, this estimate only applies for Theropod which have a pretty well-preserved skeleton so it can't be applied to Theropod like Spino until we find more material for it  :'(

Not all Theropod should get heavier when being applied this estimate. For example

Stan when using the 2009 estimate weighs up to 8 tonnes

Posted Image

Posted Image

But when using the 2011 estimate, Stan weighs only 6 tonnes

Posted Image
^ As you can see, it wrap around Stan better than the older 2009 estimate.

Posted Image

As far as i know, this new 2011 estimate is likely to be the most accurate method to estimate the mass of extinct animals, it wrap around an animal much better than the older 2009 laser imaging estimate.

Quote:
 
but far too low assuming


T rex best speed estimate is 18mph (~29km/h), but this speed estimate is applied for a smaller T rex than Sue, so Sue would be much slower than this in real life, it's not so surprising. BUT, Trike and some large Hadrosaur can also weighs as much as Sue and the would likely to be even slower than Sue was. Sue can still be a predator with that 9,5 tonnes mass

Quote:
 
this T. rex model does still seem too bulky imo


I think the problem is the skeletal reconstruction, do you think so ?. The model was wrapped perfectly with the skeleton
Sorry, my mistake, I have confused the figures there, probably because the 9,1t are short tons or whatever.

The sproblem is definitely not the skeleton and this doesn´t have anything to do with how compelte they where. assuming you recosntruct T. rex with more tissue, you have to do the same to other theropods. The problem here is that they made it totally obese...

We can apply this metod to any animal, use common sense. when this T. rex is heavier than we tought, this does apply to all animals, not jsut those with complete skeletons. and the wrap from the 1011 study is pretty bad imo, the old one was better even tough too bulky.
Edited by theropod, Oct 11 2012, 01:41 AM.
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JMD
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Dinosauria picture:
T. Rex: ooh! That looks tasty! :D
Spino: You don't eat my side without my permission, b!tch. agro realmad
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Lacerate
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Drift
Jan 13 2012, 08:32 AM
Its bite is more than enough to take down spinosaurus so i'm going to have to say Tyrannosaurus would win this.
I agree
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Fragillimus335
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Lacerate
Oct 23 2012, 07:33 AM
Drift
Jan 13 2012, 08:32 AM
Its bite is more than enough to take down spinosaurus so i'm going to have to say Tyrannosaurus would win this.
I agree
Tyrannosaurus can't kill theropods twice its size. It can't even open its mouth wide enough to deliver a good bite to Spinosaurus.
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Verdugo
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Fragillimus335
Oct 24 2012, 04:31 AM
Lacerate
Oct 23 2012, 07:33 AM
Drift
Jan 13 2012, 08:32 AM
Its bite is more than enough to take down spinosaurus so i'm going to have to say Tyrannosaurus would win this.
I agree
Tyrannosaurus can't kill theropods twice its size. It can't even open its mouth wide enough to deliver a good bite to Spinosaurus.
And Spinosaurus is not twice the size of T rex
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theropod
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it likely is is, you just don´t believe it
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Archer250
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Verdugo
Oct 24 2012, 04:35 AM
Fragillimus335
Oct 24 2012, 04:31 AM
Lacerate
Oct 23 2012, 07:33 AM
Drift
Jan 13 2012, 08:32 AM
Its bite is more than enough to take down spinosaurus so i'm going to have to say Tyrannosaurus would win this.
I agree
Tyrannosaurus can't kill theropods twice its size. It can't even open its mouth wide enough to deliver a good bite to Spinosaurus.
And Spinosaurus is not twice the size of T rex
It most likely is.

A 11m Rex could probably hold its own against a 14m Spinosaurus, but at 18m? The Rex would have to bring its "pack" or "family" or whatever group it is they hunt in.
Edited by Archer250, Oct 24 2012, 09:04 AM.
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JMD
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general fight comment:
Hmm. I will try to solve this.. Ah, my handy story tools..

Okay. A Tyrannosaurus is feasting on a carcass. A Spinosaurus sees the Tyrannosaurus eating, and the Spinosaurus has not been able to find food. He sees the chance to try to shoo away the T. Rex, or try to kill it. The Spino is desperate enough to try. It appears and shows up in front of the T. Rex, and the tyrant nstands his ground as he guards the carcass. They roar at each other, and they charge, Rex walking first. They gape at each other, trying to bite. The Tyrannosaurus roars as it opens its mouth a few feet from his opponent. Spinosaurus quickly lashes out his claws and cuts the tyrant's head, but not that deep since the Tyrannosaurus has managed to back away to prevent worse damage. The two roar at each other, Spino staying in place. T. Rex challenges his authority by opening its jaws near the Spino's head. T. Rex missed, but roars with eye contact. Spino lunges forward and T. Rex rotates his head out of it, but the Spinosaurus still grabs the neck. It doesn't break the windpipe, but it still causes annoyance and pain for the tyrant. T. Rex studders, and tries to bite off the arms, but Spino whacks the gums. The Tyrannosaurus retreats for a while, but comes back charging, aiming for the side. Spino reacts just in time to bite a neck muscle, and the T. Rex retreats, humiliated and angry.
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Carnivorous98
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It actually depends on the situation because both of the theropods have equal strengths and weaknesses.
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JMD
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True, true. I've developed the concept of a tie ever since May or so, and when I was 6-11 I thought Spino would win, since I was quite a JP fan then.
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