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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus v Tyrannosaurus rex
Topic Started: Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM (459,326 Views)
Wolf Eagle
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Tyrannosaurus rex
Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes.

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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus
Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur which lived in what is now North Africa, from the lower Albian to lower Cenomanian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 97 million years ago. Spinosaurus may be the largest of all known carnivorous dinosaurs, even larger than Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus. Estimates published in 2005 and 2007 suggest that it was 12.6 to 18 metres (41 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 20.9 tonnes (7.7 to 23.0 short tons) in weight. The skull of Spinosaurus was long and narrow like that of a modern crocodilian. Spinosaurus is thought to have eaten fish; evidence suggests that it lived both on land and in water like a modern crocodilian. The distinctive spines of Spinosaurus, which were long extensions of the vertebrae, grew to at least 1.65 meters (5.4 ft) long and were likely to have had skin connecting them, forming a sail-like structure, although some authors have suggested that the spines were covered in fat and formed a hump. Multiple functions have been put forward for this structure, including thermoregulation and display. Dal Sasso et al. (2005) assumed that Spinosaurus and Suchomimus had the same body proportions in relation to their skull lengths, and thereby calculated that Spinosaurus was 16 to 18 meters (52 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 9 tonnes (7.7 to 9.9 short tons) in weight. The Dal Sasso et al. estimates were criticized because the skull length estimate was uncertain, and (assuming that body mass increases as the cube of body length) scaling Suchomimus which was 11 meters (36 ft) long and 3.8 tonnes (4.2 short tons) in mass to the range of estimated lengths of Spinosaurus would produce an estimated body mass of 11.7 to 16.7 tonnes (12.9 to 18.4 short tons).

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Edited by Taipan, Apr 24 2015, 10:10 PM.
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theropod
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Black Ice
Oct 27 2012, 07:49 AM
Well if the shorter legged 16 to 17 meter estimate is true, then spinosaurus has a better chance than i thought.
Wasn't it universally agreed that spinosaurus was most likely only around 14 or 15 meters though?
More like this figure being universally agreed about as the minimum. for all we know it was AT LEAST that large. maximum is a different story, but again, i see no point in supporting a conservative estimate for spinosaurus, especially when it seems illogical to me, and at the same time using the ONLY adult spinosaurus and the largest of 31 T. rexes. Holz, Dal Sasso and Mortimer all consistently give estimates of 16m or more (in this order 16m, 16-18m and 17m), and Dal Sasso appearantly even supports that estimate with the undescribed shorter legs.
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Grey
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Dal Sasso is describing the legs bones, and Ibrahim the vertebras.

I'm quite sure we'll have the final word with the pubic and the following analysis. As I said, I'm quite confident about the giant model they made, said to the most accurate in the world. In my way, Spinosaurus was somewhere like this and the animal depicted in Planet Dinosaur.
Edited by Grey, Oct 27 2012, 08:21 PM.
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Carcharadon
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An Eland would solo them both.
Edited by Carcharadon, Oct 27 2012, 09:58 PM.
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Jinfengopteryx
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That joke's getting boring.
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genao87
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Grey
Oct 27 2012, 08:20 PM
Dal Sasso is describing the legs bones, and Ibrahim the vertebras.

I'm quite sure we'll have the final word with the pubic and the following analysis. As I said, I'm quite confident about the giant model they made, said to the most accurate in the world. In my way, Spinosaurus was somewhere like this and the animal depicted in Planet Dinosaur.
Grey, can you show me an image of how it looked like in Planet Dinosaur. The one from Cau is to damn short, makes Spino look like 4 legged croc.
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Grey
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Sure, but just have to use google image !

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theropod
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somehow this guy doesn´t seem short legged at all...
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Grey
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Not like the reproduction from Dal Sasso, but it has legs somewhat shorter compared to more classic theropods.
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theropod
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that´s generally known from spinosaurs, isn´t it?

Quote:
 
Basing on Suchomimus MNN GDF500 which is 11m, weighs 2,9-4,8t [1] and has a skull 1,18m[2] and femur and tibia 1.075 m and 945 mm respectively, I get the following figures:

1,75m skull: 16,3m total lenght, 1,59m femur lenght, 1,4m tibial lenght, 9,4-15,6t total weight (the median of those is 12,5t)
1,95m skull: 18,1m total lenght, 1,76m femur lenght, 1,55m tibial lenght, 12,9-21,3t total weight (the median of those is 17,1t)

This should be regarded carefully tough, as the individual wasn´t adult [3] and thus could have had different proportions
References:
1. Sereno et al, 1998: A Long-Snouted Predatory Dinosaur from Africa and the Evolution of Spinosaurids
2. Therrien & Henderson, 2007: My theropod is bigger than yours … or not: estimating body size from skull length in theropods
3. DinoData: http://www.dinodata.info/index.php/topic,2425.msg2425.html#msg2425


By comparison giganotosaurus, which is already shorter legged when compared to a T. rex the same lenght would have a 2m femur at the upper lenght.
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Grey
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Yes.

That's partially why I don't see why Dal Sasso would exagerrate into its depiction of something even shorter. We have to find out when the publi is done, but awaiting, I am not that skeptical, more curious.

Short-legged or not, it was a gigantic killer. But it is true that height could be decisive here.
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theropod
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if the legs wheren´t much shorter than in relatives it would still have a decisive height advantage over any other theropod.
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Grey
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theropod
Oct 27 2012, 11:57 PM
if the legs wheren´t much shorter than in relatives it would still have a decisive height advantage over any other theropod.
Looking at the Dal Sasso comparison chart, I'm not sure. The fact is that we don't know.
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theropod
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We´ll hopefully know it soon...
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Grey
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By the way, it seems that the size of Onchopristis was perhaps somewhat exagerrated in Planet Dinosaur (it would not be the first time rolleyes ).

I'm not certain about that but speaking with a friend paleontologist close to the research done about North African Early Cretaceous fauna, he reported me the size of 5 meters. I don't know if he used this as a factual data or if it was just a guess, but he's generally meticulous regarding values.

Anyway, even at 5 meters, it is still a fact that Spinosaurus chomped on preys the size of really large modern sharks.
Edited by Grey, Oct 28 2012, 12:25 AM.
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theropod
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Still impressive, even at 5m. Meticulous can also mean not reporting very fragmentary specimens that point out to larger sizes tough.
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