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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus v Tyrannosaurus rex
Topic Started: Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM (459,322 Views)
Wolf Eagle
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Tyrannosaurus rex
Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes.

Posted Image

Spinosaurus aegyptiacus
Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur which lived in what is now North Africa, from the lower Albian to lower Cenomanian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 97 million years ago. Spinosaurus may be the largest of all known carnivorous dinosaurs, even larger than Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus. Estimates published in 2005 and 2007 suggest that it was 12.6 to 18 metres (41 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 20.9 tonnes (7.7 to 23.0 short tons) in weight. The skull of Spinosaurus was long and narrow like that of a modern crocodilian. Spinosaurus is thought to have eaten fish; evidence suggests that it lived both on land and in water like a modern crocodilian. The distinctive spines of Spinosaurus, which were long extensions of the vertebrae, grew to at least 1.65 meters (5.4 ft) long and were likely to have had skin connecting them, forming a sail-like structure, although some authors have suggested that the spines were covered in fat and formed a hump. Multiple functions have been put forward for this structure, including thermoregulation and display. Dal Sasso et al. (2005) assumed that Spinosaurus and Suchomimus had the same body proportions in relation to their skull lengths, and thereby calculated that Spinosaurus was 16 to 18 meters (52 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 9 tonnes (7.7 to 9.9 short tons) in weight. The Dal Sasso et al. estimates were criticized because the skull length estimate was uncertain, and (assuming that body mass increases as the cube of body length) scaling Suchomimus which was 11 meters (36 ft) long and 3.8 tonnes (4.2 short tons) in mass to the range of estimated lengths of Spinosaurus would produce an estimated body mass of 11.7 to 16.7 tonnes (12.9 to 18.4 short tons).

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Edited by Taipan, Apr 24 2015, 10:10 PM.
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theropod
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thanks, much better. what are the measurements of this elephant?
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SpinoInWonderland
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theropod
Oct 30 2012, 08:02 PM
thanks, much better. what are the measurements of this elephant?
3.5 meters tall on the tallest point, which would make it somewhere between 3.3-3.4 meters tall at the shoulder

the Tyrannosaurus is 12 meters long
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theropod
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then it fits the 6-7t range pretty well
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Grey
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theropod
Oct 30 2012, 07:46 PM
Grey
Oct 30 2012, 06:54 PM
Yeah, the pic is potentially misleading, but to me, it is common knowledge that T.rex is bigger than most African elephants individuals.
Of course, that´s not surprising. after all, we are using sue and an average elephant. On the other hand, we can assume the T. rexes we found to be around average alltogether, but you cannot take larger individuals that you didn´t yet find into account.
Yeah, but my main reason is that I don't consider Sue as super-sized T.rex or a freak, only as a large adult.
Yes, elephants and T.rex are easily similar in body mass, but I was facing Fragilimus statelent that an elephant is substantially bigger than Tyrannosaurus.
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theropod
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Grey
Oct 30 2012, 08:12 PM
theropod
Oct 30 2012, 07:46 PM
Grey
Oct 30 2012, 06:54 PM
Yeah, the pic is potentially misleading, but to me, it is common knowledge that T.rex is bigger than most African elephants individuals.
Of course, that´s not surprising. after all, we are using sue and an average elephant. On the other hand, we can assume the T. rexes we found to be around average alltogether, but you cannot take larger individuals that you didn´t yet find into account.
Yeah, but my main reason is that I don't consider Sue as super-sized T.rex or a freak, only as a large adult.
Yes, elephants and T.rex are easily similar in body mass, but I was facing Fragilimus statelent that an elephant is substantially bigger than Tyrannosaurus.
I think an 8t elephant is bigger obviously, and sue is probably heavier than an average elephant. Of course it is hardly a super sized T. rex, how likely is it to find a particularly large specimen in an extinct species? But you cannot consider undiscovered larger specimens either, neither can you say sue is average because it is above the average of the specimens which we have.
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Fragillimus335
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Grey
Oct 30 2012, 08:12 PM
theropod
Oct 30 2012, 07:46 PM
Grey
Oct 30 2012, 06:54 PM
Yeah, the pic is potentially misleading, but to me, it is common knowledge that T.rex is bigger than most African elephants individuals.
Of course, that´s not surprising. after all, we are using sue and an average elephant. On the other hand, we can assume the T. rexes we found to be around average alltogether, but you cannot take larger individuals that you didn´t yet find into account.
Yeah, but my main reason is that I don't consider Sue as super-sized T.rex or a freak, only as a large adult.
Yes, elephants and T.rex are easily similar in body mass, but I was facing Fragilimus statelent that an elephant is substantially bigger than Tyrannosaurus.
Just smaller than the specimens at the Field Museum. They are huge 8 ton elephants, Rex would be bigger than your average 5-6 ton bull.
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Verdugo
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theropod
Oct 30 2012, 08:16 PM
Grey
Oct 30 2012, 08:12 PM
theropod
Oct 30 2012, 07:46 PM
Grey
Oct 30 2012, 06:54 PM
Yeah, the pic is potentially misleading, but to me, it is common knowledge that T.rex is bigger than most African elephants individuals.
Of course, that´s not surprising. after all, we are using sue and an average elephant. On the other hand, we can assume the T. rexes we found to be around average alltogether, but you cannot take larger individuals that you didn´t yet find into account.
Yeah, but my main reason is that I don't consider Sue as super-sized T.rex or a freak, only as a large adult.
Yes, elephants and T.rex are easily similar in body mass, but I was facing Fragilimus statelent that an elephant is substantially bigger than Tyrannosaurus.
I think an 8t elephant is bigger obviously, and sue is probably heavier than an average elephant. Of course it is hardly a super sized T. rex, how likely is it to find a particularly large specimen in an extinct species? But you cannot consider undiscovered larger specimens either, neither can you say sue is average because it is above the average of the specimens which we have.
I think 7 tonnes for an average T rex sound most reasonable, even base on the 2011 method (which is considered to be biased by many people), Stan weighs only 6 tonnes and Carneige is only 7 tonnes. Carneige is a good size adult T rex and it should be applied as a good average weight for the species.

Sue isn't a freak, she is only slightly longer than other T rex specimens we have

@Bone Crusher: Could you give us a paper for this pic, i'm really interested to see it :)

Posted Image

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Jinfengopteryx
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bone crusher
Oct 30 2012, 06:22 PM
Fragillimus335
Oct 29 2012, 11:09 PM
Fat bottomed theropods you make the rockin' world go round!

Seriously, Sue did not weigh 9.5/10.5 tons....If you have seen the skeleton you would know that. It's mounted right next to a pair of 8 ton elephants, and it is definitely smaller, and it's a theropod...that means air sacs, and lots of them.
The elephant is mounted with flesh and skin so obviously it'll look bigger than it really is. When you compare them all in skeleton you can see that T.rex is much bigger. So if a decent sized bull elephant weighs 6tons then it's easy to see a T.rex like Sue could weigh 9 tons+.
Posted Image
Actually, no one here doubts that Tyrannosaurus was heavier, but how much heavier? And you know an average African Bush Elephant only weighs 5t and not 6?
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theropod
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Verdugo
Oct 31 2012, 03:44 AM
theropod
Oct 30 2012, 08:16 PM
Grey
Oct 30 2012, 08:12 PM
theropod
Oct 30 2012, 07:46 PM
Grey
Oct 30 2012, 06:54 PM
Yeah, the pic is potentially misleading, but to me, it is common knowledge that T.rex is bigger than most African elephants individuals.
Of course, that´s not surprising. after all, we are using sue and an average elephant. On the other hand, we can assume the T. rexes we found to be around average alltogether, but you cannot take larger individuals that you didn´t yet find into account.
Yeah, but my main reason is that I don't consider Sue as super-sized T.rex or a freak, only as a large adult.
Yes, elephants and T.rex are easily similar in body mass, but I was facing Fragilimus statelent that an elephant is substantially bigger than Tyrannosaurus.
I think an 8t elephant is bigger obviously, and sue is probably heavier than an average elephant. Of course it is hardly a super sized T. rex, how likely is it to find a particularly large specimen in an extinct species? But you cannot consider undiscovered larger specimens either, neither can you say sue is average because it is above the average of the specimens which we have.
I think 7 tonnes for an average T rex sound most reasonable, even base on the 2011 method (which is considered to be biased by many people), Stan weighs only 6 tonnes and Carneige is only 7 tonnes. Carneige is a good size adult T rex and it should be applied as a good average weight for the species.

Sue isn't a freak, she is only slightly longer than other T rex specimens we have

@Bone Crusher: Could you give us a paper for this pic, i'm really interested to see it :)

Posted Image

exactly, I consider it too liberal and it definitely is more liberal than respective weight estimates for other dinosaurs. this study does not mean T. rex was suddenly heavier compared to other dinosaurs, and everybody is assuming it had relevance in this fight scenario while it doesn´t actually.
to qoute myself:

[quoteif you think T. rex looks like this:
Posted Image
rather than this:
Posted Image

you also have to assume allosaurus looked like this:
Posted Image
rather than this:
Posted Image

and torvosaurus like this:
Posted Image
rather than this:
Posted Image

if you assume this T. rex would be heavier than we all thought:
Posted Image
the same applies for this allosaurus:Posted Image
..................................and this Torvosaurus: Posted Image

And of course it is the same with every other animal.

I personally don´t feel comfortable with those fat dinosaurs, what do you think? Anyway, making one theropod heavier in relation to others would only work if you had clear evidence that it was more massive than thought and others wheren´t.[/quote]
I hope you get what i mean, there is simply no base to say T. rex would be heavier than the other estimates show it and other animals wouldn´t.
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bone crusher
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Verdugo
Oct 31 2012, 03:44 AM
theropod
Oct 30 2012, 08:16 PM
Grey
Oct 30 2012, 08:12 PM
theropod
Oct 30 2012, 07:46 PM
Grey
Oct 30 2012, 06:54 PM
Yeah, the pic is potentially misleading, but to me, it is common knowledge that T.rex is bigger than most African elephants individuals.
Of course, that´s not surprising. after all, we are using sue and an average elephant. On the other hand, we can assume the T. rexes we found to be around average alltogether, but you cannot take larger individuals that you didn´t yet find into account.
Yeah, but my main reason is that I don't consider Sue as super-sized T.rex or a freak, only as a large adult.
Yes, elephants and T.rex are easily similar in body mass, but I was facing Fragilimus statelent that an elephant is substantially bigger than Tyrannosaurus.
I think an 8t elephant is bigger obviously, and sue is probably heavier than an average elephant. Of course it is hardly a super sized T. rex, how likely is it to find a particularly large specimen in an extinct species? But you cannot consider undiscovered larger specimens either, neither can you say sue is average because it is above the average of the specimens which we have.
I think 7 tonnes for an average T rex sound most reasonable, even base on the 2011 method (which is considered to be biased by many people), Stan weighs only 6 tonnes and Carneige is only 7 tonnes. Carneige is a good size adult T rex and it should be applied as a good average weight for the species.

Sue isn't a freak, she is only slightly longer than other T rex specimens we have

@Bone Crusher: Could you give us a paper for this pic, i'm really interested to see it :)

Posted Image

I don't have the original paper for where that pic came from, it was taken from another forum though.
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Verdugo
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bone crusher
Oct 31 2012, 06:52 PM
Verdugo
Oct 31 2012, 03:44 AM
theropod
Oct 30 2012, 08:16 PM
Grey
Oct 30 2012, 08:12 PM
theropod
Oct 30 2012, 07:46 PM
Grey
Oct 30 2012, 06:54 PM
Yeah, the pic is potentially misleading, but to me, it is common knowledge that T.rex is bigger than most African elephants individuals.
Of course, that´s not surprising. after all, we are using sue and an average elephant. On the other hand, we can assume the T. rexes we found to be around average alltogether, but you cannot take larger individuals that you didn´t yet find into account.
Yeah, but my main reason is that I don't consider Sue as super-sized T.rex or a freak, only as a large adult.
Yes, elephants and T.rex are easily similar in body mass, but I was facing Fragilimus statelent that an elephant is substantially bigger than Tyrannosaurus.
I think an 8t elephant is bigger obviously, and sue is probably heavier than an average elephant. Of course it is hardly a super sized T. rex, how likely is it to find a particularly large specimen in an extinct species? But you cannot consider undiscovered larger specimens either, neither can you say sue is average because it is above the average of the specimens which we have.
I think 7 tonnes for an average T rex sound most reasonable, even base on the 2011 method (which is considered to be biased by many people), Stan weighs only 6 tonnes and Carneige is only 7 tonnes. Carneige is a good size adult T rex and it should be applied as a good average weight for the species.

Sue isn't a freak, she is only slightly longer than other T rex specimens we have

@Bone Crusher: Could you give us a paper for this pic, i'm really interested to see it :)

Posted Image

I don't have the original paper for where that pic came from, it was taken from another forum though.
Why don't you ask them for the original paper ? :( . BTW, did they give the weight for Sue and Giganotosaurus base on this method ?
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bone crusher
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theropod
Oct 31 2012, 04:21 AM
Verdugo
Oct 31 2012, 03:44 AM

I personally don´t feel comfortable with those fat dinosaurs, what do you think? Anyway, making one theropod heavier in relation to others would only work if you had clear evidence that it was more massive than thought and others wheren´t.

I hope you get what i mean, there is simply no base to say T. rex would be heavier than the other estimates show it and other animals wouldn´t.
Like I said, weight estimates for all other threropods could potentially change greatly (either up or down) using this scan since it calculates from their actual body proportion, volume rather than a linear equation. It's just we have sufficient amount of bones for T.Rex thus making this result the most accurate. Remember they tested this on an ostrich and it turned out accurate.
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bone crusher
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Verdugo
Oct 31 2012, 07:04 PM
bone crusher
Oct 31 2012, 06:52 PM
Verdugo
Oct 31 2012, 03:44 AM
theropod
Oct 30 2012, 08:16 PM
Grey
Oct 30 2012, 08:12 PM
theropod
Oct 30 2012, 07:46 PM
Grey
Oct 30 2012, 06:54 PM
Yeah, the pic is potentially misleading, but to me, it is common knowledge that T.rex is bigger than most African elephants individuals.
Of course, that´s not surprising. after all, we are using sue and an average elephant. On the other hand, we can assume the T. rexes we found to be around average alltogether, but you cannot take larger individuals that you didn´t yet find into account.
Yeah, but my main reason is that I don't consider Sue as super-sized T.rex or a freak, only as a large adult.
Yes, elephants and T.rex are easily similar in body mass, but I was facing Fragilimus statelent that an elephant is substantially bigger than Tyrannosaurus.
I think an 8t elephant is bigger obviously, and sue is probably heavier than an average elephant. Of course it is hardly a super sized T. rex, how likely is it to find a particularly large specimen in an extinct species? But you cannot consider undiscovered larger specimens either, neither can you say sue is average because it is above the average of the specimens which we have.
I think 7 tonnes for an average T rex sound most reasonable, even base on the 2011 method (which is considered to be biased by many people), Stan weighs only 6 tonnes and Carneige is only 7 tonnes. Carneige is a good size adult T rex and it should be applied as a good average weight for the species.

Sue isn't a freak, she is only slightly longer than other T rex specimens we have

@Bone Crusher: Could you give us a paper for this pic, i'm really interested to see it :)

Posted Image

I don't have the original paper for where that pic came from, it was taken from another forum though.
Why don't you ask them for the original paper ? :( . BTW, did they give the weight for Sue and Giganotosaurus base on this method ?
That was posted quite a while ago I'll have to dig that up, can't really remember if they mentioned much about the weight but I'll look more into it.
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Verdugo
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bone crusher
Oct 31 2012, 07:09 PM
theropod
Oct 31 2012, 04:21 AM
Verdugo
Oct 31 2012, 03:44 AM

I personally don´t feel comfortable with those fat dinosaurs, what do you think? Anyway, making one theropod heavier in relation to others would only work if you had clear evidence that it was more massive than thought and others wheren´t.

I hope you get what i mean, there is simply no base to say T. rex would be heavier than the other estimates show it and other animals wouldn´t.
Like I said, weight estimates for all other threropods could potentially change greatly (either up or down) using this scan since it calculates from their actual body proportion, volume rather than a linear equation. It's just we have sufficient amount of bones for T.Rex thus making this result the most accurate. Remember they tested this on an ostrich and it turned out accurate.
I agree

BTW, the new 2011 method seems to be more accurate than the laser imaging method

Posted Image

Posted Image
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Kunfuzzled
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My battle scenario (Please don't take this seriously): Tyrannosaurus after a long and tedious battle realises that he's most likely not going defeat his huge adversary and most likely going to end up dead unless he runs away. In his mind he can only see himself running away to prevent death, but he is the "KING". KING's don't run away, he doesn't want to swallow his pride and disappoint all his fanboys. He'd rather go down fighting then flee. Then he musters all his strength charges at Spinosaurus and body slams him. Spinosaurus bewildered by this sudden change of events can only watch as a six tonne mass is hurling towards him, knocking him clean off his feet. The KING knows it's all over for him, he's bones battered and organs ruptured, but he also know's it's over for Spinosaurus. The sail finned opponents comes crashing down snapping his spine and breaking his vertebrae. He dies almost instantly due to the fact the Tyrannosaurus's body lands right on top of him. The body of Spinosaurus's body provides cushioning allowing the King a few moments to live. As his world fades to darkness, he feels content knowing that he is still the "King!"

Anyhow that's one of the (very) few ways I see Tyrannosaurus killing Spinosaurus, if it did some crazy kamikaze sh*t (of course this would never happen in reality, predator's don't have such things as pride.)
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