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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus v Tyrannosaurus rex
Topic Started: Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM (459,320 Views)
Wolf Eagle
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Tyrannosaurus rex
Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes.

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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus
Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur which lived in what is now North Africa, from the lower Albian to lower Cenomanian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 97 million years ago. Spinosaurus may be the largest of all known carnivorous dinosaurs, even larger than Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus. Estimates published in 2005 and 2007 suggest that it was 12.6 to 18 metres (41 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 20.9 tonnes (7.7 to 23.0 short tons) in weight. The skull of Spinosaurus was long and narrow like that of a modern crocodilian. Spinosaurus is thought to have eaten fish; evidence suggests that it lived both on land and in water like a modern crocodilian. The distinctive spines of Spinosaurus, which were long extensions of the vertebrae, grew to at least 1.65 meters (5.4 ft) long and were likely to have had skin connecting them, forming a sail-like structure, although some authors have suggested that the spines were covered in fat and formed a hump. Multiple functions have been put forward for this structure, including thermoregulation and display. Dal Sasso et al. (2005) assumed that Spinosaurus and Suchomimus had the same body proportions in relation to their skull lengths, and thereby calculated that Spinosaurus was 16 to 18 meters (52 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 9 tonnes (7.7 to 9.9 short tons) in weight. The Dal Sasso et al. estimates were criticized because the skull length estimate was uncertain, and (assuming that body mass increases as the cube of body length) scaling Suchomimus which was 11 meters (36 ft) long and 3.8 tonnes (4.2 short tons) in mass to the range of estimated lengths of Spinosaurus would produce an estimated body mass of 11.7 to 16.7 tonnes (12.9 to 18.4 short tons).

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Edited by Taipan, Apr 24 2015, 10:10 PM.
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Verdugo
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theropod
Nov 6 2012, 10:11 PM
DinosaurMichael
Nov 6 2012, 10:02 PM
Assassin
Nov 6 2012, 07:58 AM
Tyrannosaurus rex (pack of 3) vs Spinosaurus


That's a mismatch. We have this though. People are favoring one T-Rex more than Spinosaurus.
That does not mean it would win. 3 T. rexes are two much but 2 could still be a good fight at the upper range of spinos size. people are favouring T. rex because they don´t know about the size and think because of a stronger bite it automatically wins.
Spinosaurus isn't really much larger than T rex, and its upper size is debuking, even Dal Sasso himself doesn't support the 18+ tonnes Spinosaurus

One T rex could destroy Spinosaurus at 80-85%, leave alone two and three
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theropod
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Verdugo
Nov 8 2012, 03:18 AM
theropod
Nov 6 2012, 10:11 PM
DinosaurMichael
Nov 6 2012, 10:02 PM
Assassin
Nov 6 2012, 07:58 AM
Tyrannosaurus rex (pack of 3) vs Spinosaurus


That's a mismatch. We have this though. People are favoring one T-Rex more than Spinosaurus.
That does not mean it would win. 3 T. rexes are two much but 2 could still be a good fight at the upper range of spinos size. people are favouring T. rex because they don´t know about the size and think because of a stronger bite it automatically wins.
Spinosaurus isn't really much larger than T rex, and its upper size is debuking, even Dal Sasso himself doesn't support the 18+ tonnes Spinosaurus

One T rex could destroy Spinosaurus at 80-85%, leave alone two and three
in your opinion, but I fear you are deceiving yourself there.
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Drift
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DinosaurMichael
Nov 6 2012, 10:12 PM
theropod
Nov 6 2012, 10:11 PM
DinosaurMichael
Nov 6 2012, 10:02 PM
Assassin
Nov 6 2012, 07:58 AM
Tyrannosaurus rex (pack of 3) vs Spinosaurus


That's a mismatch. We have this though. People are favoring one T-Rex more than Spinosaurus.
That does not mean it would win. 3 T. rexes are two much but 2 could still be a good fight at the upper range of spinos size. people are favouring T. rex because they don´t know about the size and think because of a stronger bite it automatically wins.
Well we already have this. So no need to make it.
I agree, the majority understand who would win.No need for other topics like this one
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Temnospondyl
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STOP THIS FANBOY WAR !!!!!!!111
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Verdugo
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theropod
Nov 8 2012, 04:49 AM
Verdugo
Nov 8 2012, 03:18 AM
theropod
Nov 6 2012, 10:11 PM
DinosaurMichael
Nov 6 2012, 10:02 PM
Assassin
Nov 6 2012, 07:58 AM
Tyrannosaurus rex (pack of 3) vs Spinosaurus


That's a mismatch. We have this though. People are favoring one T-Rex more than Spinosaurus.
That does not mean it would win. 3 T. rexes are two much but 2 could still be a good fight at the upper range of spinos size. people are favouring T. rex because they don´t know about the size and think because of a stronger bite it automatically wins.
Spinosaurus isn't really much larger than T rex, and its upper size is debuking, even Dal Sasso himself doesn't support the 18+ tonnes Spinosaurus

One T rex could destroy Spinosaurus at 80-85%, leave alone two and three
in your opinion, but I fear you are deceiving yourself there.
If Cau estimate for 14,4m Spinosaurus is correct, i don't see why Spinosaurus should beat 2 T rex. A 14,4m Spino would weigh only 8,5 tonnes (base on 11m 3,8 tonnes Suchomimus), it is slightly heavier than an average adult T rex (7-8 tonnes), the size advantage isn't big enough for Spino to beat 2 T rex.

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Black Ice
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theropod
Nov 6 2012, 10:11 PM
DinosaurMichael
Nov 6 2012, 10:02 PM
Assassin
Nov 6 2012, 07:58 AM
Tyrannosaurus rex (pack of 3) vs Spinosaurus


That's a mismatch. We have this though. People are favoring one T-Rex more than Spinosaurus.
That does not mean it would win. 3 T. rexes are two much but 2 could still be a good fight at the upper range of spinos size. people are favouring T. rex because they don´t know about the size and think because of a stronger bite it automatically wins.
And what does spino have that's major besides a size adv.? Spino is much more gracile if you take iff the sail.
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Jinfengopteryx
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Verdugo
Nov 9 2012, 04:02 AM
If Cau estimate for 14,4m Spinosaurus is correct, i don't see why Spinosaurus should beat 2 T rex. A 14,4m Spino would weigh only 8,5 tonnes (base on 11m 3,8 tonnes Suchomimus), it is slightly heavier than an average adult T rex (7-8 tonnes), the size advantage isn't big enough for Spino to beat 2 T rex.
What makes the estimate correct? What's it based on?

@coelophysid,
Could you post something what belongs in that topic, instead of calling everyone who posts here a fanboy?
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theropod
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Verdugo
Nov 9 2012, 04:02 AM
theropod
Nov 8 2012, 04:49 AM
Verdugo
Nov 8 2012, 03:18 AM
theropod
Nov 6 2012, 10:11 PM
DinosaurMichael
Nov 6 2012, 10:02 PM
Assassin
Nov 6 2012, 07:58 AM
Tyrannosaurus rex (pack of 3) vs Spinosaurus


That's a mismatch. We have this though. People are favoring one T-Rex more than Spinosaurus.
That does not mean it would win. 3 T. rexes are two much but 2 could still be a good fight at the upper range of spinos size. people are favouring T. rex because they don´t know about the size and think because of a stronger bite it automatically wins.
Spinosaurus isn't really much larger than T rex, and its upper size is debuking, even Dal Sasso himself doesn't support the 18+ tonnes Spinosaurus

One T rex could destroy Spinosaurus at 80-85%, leave alone two and three
in your opinion, but I fear you are deceiving yourself there.
If Cau estimate for 14,4m Spinosaurus is correct, i don't see why Spinosaurus should beat 2 T rex. A 14,4m Spino would weigh only 8,5 tonnes (base on 11m 3,8 tonnes Suchomimus), it is slightly heavier than an average adult T rex (7-8 tonnes), the size advantage isn't big enough for Spino to beat 2 T rex.

That´s the point IF. I don´t even think a spinosaurus would win against 2 T. rexes, but an 18m one would have decent chances nevertheless

You are all the time taking this as a fact (exactly like your T. rex weight estimates) and Dal Sassos figures as debunked, while right now if one can believe Grey they are being confirmed.
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genao87
Heterotrophic Organism
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therepod,

im confused, you said Dal Sasso figures are debunked as of now. But Grey/Ted has evidence soon that Dal Sasso estimates are being confirmed??

Also I forgot, how much does Dal Sasso believed Spino weighed? I know he believes Spino has low legs, very low legs.
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SpinoInWonderland
The madness has come back...
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Dal Sasso published 9 tonnes, and stated that he made his Spinosaurus estimates by scaling up from Suchomimus, but actually scaling from Suchomimus would yield mass estimates higher than 9 tonnes...
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Fragillimus335
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Dal probably slipped up there, anyone who believes Spino was over 16 meters long must also believe it was over 10 tons. Spinosaurus was NOT a gracile animal.
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Jinfengopteryx
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He used the Seebacher method, not isometric scaling. And the Seebacher method gives (when scaling from a Suchomimus) 9t for an 18m Spino.

He used it, because it usually gave realistic sizes for Spinosaurids. You should read this therad, I edited the OP:
http://carnivoraforum.com/topic/9734606/
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theropod
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genao87
Nov 9 2012, 10:39 AM
therepod,

im confused, you said Dal Sasso figures are debunked as of now. But Grey/Ted has evidence soon that Dal Sasso estimates are being confirmed??

Also I forgot, how much does Dal Sasso believed Spino weighed? I know he believes Spino has low legs, very low legs.
no, I only wrote he took them as debunked while they wheren´t, for they definitely aren´t, and to me Dal sossos estimates seem the msot logical ones (save for the weight figures, where I would rather favour an intermediate estimate between the very bulky 17t basing on suchomimus and the very gracile estimates calculated usign Seebachers metod)
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Verdugo
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theropod
Nov 9 2012, 04:59 AM
Verdugo
Nov 9 2012, 04:02 AM
theropod
Nov 8 2012, 04:49 AM
Verdugo
Nov 8 2012, 03:18 AM
theropod
Nov 6 2012, 10:11 PM
DinosaurMichael
Nov 6 2012, 10:02 PM
Assassin
Nov 6 2012, 07:58 AM
Tyrannosaurus rex (pack of 3) vs Spinosaurus


That's a mismatch. We have this though. People are favoring one T-Rex more than Spinosaurus.
That does not mean it would win. 3 T. rexes are two much but 2 could still be a good fight at the upper range of spinos size. people are favouring T. rex because they don´t know about the size and think because of a stronger bite it automatically wins.
Spinosaurus isn't really much larger than T rex, and its upper size is debuking, even Dal Sasso himself doesn't support the 18+ tonnes Spinosaurus

One T rex could destroy Spinosaurus at 80-85%, leave alone two and three
in your opinion, but I fear you are deceiving yourself there.
If Cau estimate for 14,4m Spinosaurus is correct, i don't see why Spinosaurus should beat 2 T rex. A 14,4m Spino would weigh only 8,5 tonnes (base on 11m 3,8 tonnes Suchomimus), it is slightly heavier than an average adult T rex (7-8 tonnes), the size advantage isn't big enough for Spino to beat 2 T rex.

That´s the point IF. I don´t even think a spinosaurus would win against 2 T. rexes, but an 18m one would have decent chances nevertheless

You are all the time taking this as a fact (exactly like your T. rex weight estimates) and Dal Sassos figures as debunked, while right now if one can believe Grey they are being confirmed.
Cau estimates by comparing the skull of the holotype to the longest (caudal) vertebrate seems quite accurate for me, he is a paleontologists, he shouldn't have any trouble scaling and comparing, how can Cau estimates be flaw ??

Cau Spino proportion also looks better than Dal Sasso, Cau Spino is not super skinny and short-legged like Dal Sasso

Also 14,4m and 8,5 tonnes still makes Spinosaurus is the largest Theropod dinosaur, it is clearly longer and heavier than any other Theropod, Spino would still be the top dog of its reign

Cau estimate is also the latest until now

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theropod
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Verdugo
Nov 10 2012, 02:38 AM
theropod
Nov 9 2012, 04:59 AM
Verdugo
Nov 9 2012, 04:02 AM
theropod
Nov 8 2012, 04:49 AM
Verdugo
Nov 8 2012, 03:18 AM
theropod
Nov 6 2012, 10:11 PM
DinosaurMichael
Nov 6 2012, 10:02 PM
Assassin
Nov 6 2012, 07:58 AM
Tyrannosaurus rex (pack of 3) vs Spinosaurus


That's a mismatch. We have this though. People are favoring one T-Rex more than Spinosaurus.
That does not mean it would win. 3 T. rexes are two much but 2 could still be a good fight at the upper range of spinos size. people are favouring T. rex because they don´t know about the size and think because of a stronger bite it automatically wins.
Spinosaurus isn't really much larger than T rex, and its upper size is debuking, even Dal Sasso himself doesn't support the 18+ tonnes Spinosaurus

One T rex could destroy Spinosaurus at 80-85%, leave alone two and three
in your opinion, but I fear you are deceiving yourself there.
If Cau estimate for 14,4m Spinosaurus is correct, i don't see why Spinosaurus should beat 2 T rex. A 14,4m Spino would weigh only 8,5 tonnes (base on 11m 3,8 tonnes Suchomimus), it is slightly heavier than an average adult T rex (7-8 tonnes), the size advantage isn't big enough for Spino to beat 2 T rex.

That´s the point IF. I don´t even think a spinosaurus would win against 2 T. rexes, but an 18m one would have decent chances nevertheless

You are all the time taking this as a fact (exactly like your T. rex weight estimates) and Dal Sassos figures as debunked, while right now if one can believe Grey they are being confirmed.
Cau estimates by comparing the skull of the holotype to the longest (caudal) vertebrate seems quite accurate for me, he is a paleontologists, he shouldn't have any trouble scaling and comparing, how can Cau estimates be flaw ??

Cau Spino proportion also looks better than Dal Sasso, Cau Spino is not super skinny and short-legged like Dal Sasso

Also 14,4m and 8,5 tonnes still makes Spinosaurus is the largest Theropod dinosaur, it is clearly longer and heavier than any other Theropod, Spino would still be the top dog of its reign

Cau estimate is also the latest until now

all the others are also palaeontologists, and unlike Cau they use similar proportions to other spinosaurs.
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