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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus v Tyrannosaurus rex
Topic Started: Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM (459,314 Views)
Wolf Eagle
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Tyrannosaurus rex
Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes.

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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus
Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur which lived in what is now North Africa, from the lower Albian to lower Cenomanian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 97 million years ago. Spinosaurus may be the largest of all known carnivorous dinosaurs, even larger than Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus. Estimates published in 2005 and 2007 suggest that it was 12.6 to 18 metres (41 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 20.9 tonnes (7.7 to 23.0 short tons) in weight. The skull of Spinosaurus was long and narrow like that of a modern crocodilian. Spinosaurus is thought to have eaten fish; evidence suggests that it lived both on land and in water like a modern crocodilian. The distinctive spines of Spinosaurus, which were long extensions of the vertebrae, grew to at least 1.65 meters (5.4 ft) long and were likely to have had skin connecting them, forming a sail-like structure, although some authors have suggested that the spines were covered in fat and formed a hump. Multiple functions have been put forward for this structure, including thermoregulation and display. Dal Sasso et al. (2005) assumed that Spinosaurus and Suchomimus had the same body proportions in relation to their skull lengths, and thereby calculated that Spinosaurus was 16 to 18 meters (52 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 9 tonnes (7.7 to 9.9 short tons) in weight. The Dal Sasso et al. estimates were criticized because the skull length estimate was uncertain, and (assuming that body mass increases as the cube of body length) scaling Suchomimus which was 11 meters (36 ft) long and 3.8 tonnes (4.2 short tons) in mass to the range of estimated lengths of Spinosaurus would produce an estimated body mass of 11.7 to 16.7 tonnes (12.9 to 18.4 short tons).

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Edited by Taipan, Apr 24 2015, 10:10 PM.
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theropod
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^are you really in a position to criticise him, you took a scene from WWD and kept referring to it as if it was footage of real animals.
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SpinoInWonderland
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theropod
Dec 22 2012, 09:14 PM
^are you really in a position to criticise him, you took a scene from WWD and kept referring to it as if it was footage of real animals.
A documentary is a better source than a children's show
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theropod
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both are useless for the kind of arguemnt you used and it is basically the same thing you are criticising him for that you did yourself.
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theropod
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I took the time to make my own skull reconstruction of spinosaurus, based on the skull of Suchomimus:

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The skull ended up at 1,8m in lenght.
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theropod
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Have a look at this blog post on spinosaurus size please: http://carnivoraforum.com/blog/entry/3823033/44991/

I think this ought to make my reasoning in this regard pretty clear.
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dino-ken
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It's a battle of two very different theropods - Spinosaurus was a fish-killer. Tyrannosaurus rex was a dino-killer.

While there's no doubt that Spino was taller, longer and had a bigger skull. But it likely used these to either steal kills from other smaller theropods, or to help it catch the large fish that lived it's area.

Where T.rex was a bone-crushing ceratopsian and hadrosaur killer. It was built for close quarter combat.

In the end - If T.rex bites Spino like it did in JP3 - it would game over for the Spino. Assuming they are of near equal mass(8-10 tons) - then IMO (which I believe is closer to the truth) T.rex has the win 60/40. If Spino is much larger than the T.rex - then it gains the advantage 55/45.
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theropod
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have a look at my above post for the body masses please
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SpinoInWonderland
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dino-ken
Dec 23 2012, 12:39 AM
If Spino is much larger than the T.rex
Spinosaurus is much larger than Tyrannosaurus...
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theropod
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theropod
Dec 23 2012, 12:37 AM
Have a look at this blog post on spinosaurus size please: http://carnivoraforum.com/blog/entry/3823033/44991/

I think this ought to make my reasoning in this regard pretty clear.
I have to make a pro and con list concerning the alleged "rebuttal" of Dal Sassos estimate:

+the estimates were published some years later
+they are lower and thus more T. rex friendly
-they don´t allow for related animals proportions
-they shorten the skull too much compared to related animals
-they are merely OTHER estimates, arguably much more conservative but by no means debunking other figures


If at all, it should be the 12,5-14,5m figures that we should criticise, after all with the proportions of Suchomimus an animal with a 1,75m skull is 16,2m long, and the skull of Spinosaurus when reconstructed after Suchomimus is 1,8m long.

I fear I might have destroyed some peoples lifes now.
Edited by theropod, Dec 23 2012, 12:59 AM.
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SpinoInWonderland
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theropod
Dec 23 2012, 12:58 AM
I fear I might have destroyed some peoples lifes now.
It's their fault they did not stop their Tyrannosaurus bias and refused to accept that Spinosaurus is very massive...
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SpinoInWonderland
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FireEel
Jan 7 2012, 11:01 PM
With the recent revisions to the max size of T.rex(from 7 tonnes > 9.5 tonnes or more), I give T.rex a very high chance of winning now.
The 9+ tonne estimate is based on a very fat sausage Tyrannosaurus, a more realistic estimate would be in the region of 6 tonnes...
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Grey
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Sorry Theropod, but you've destroyed nothing at this point. Your post is certainly interesting but it only joins the long list of on-line off-line suggestions made about Spinosaurus.
There is still nothing conclusive, most likely it could come with the description of the new material for 2013.

I note that the skull reconstruction bas on Suchomimus looks absolutely fragile, the snout width is not even matching the diameter of a human head.
No matter the numbers of 9-12 tons provided behind, this is not the skull of a fighter.

There are more "badass" and just as plausible reconstructions.
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Verdugo
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Quote:
 
I fear I might have destroyed some peoples lifes now.

Whose lifes, definitely not me, without any scientific proof to back your scale, the scale is nonsense for me.

If you want to convince or "destroy" someone, you would need scientific proofs to back yourself up
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Fragillimus335
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theropod
Dec 22 2012, 11:37 PM
I took the time to make my own skull reconstruction of spinosaurus, based on the skull of Suchomimus:

Posted Image

The skull ended up at 1,8m in lenght.
Absolutely beautiful reconstruction my friend, and I have come to roughly the same conclusions regarding skull size.
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7Alx
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1.8 m is roughly from 175 cm. Although i think 150-180 cm skull might be acceptable estimates.
@Broly
Saying "Spinosaurus is much bigger" is wrong statement. You take as proven fact. So your argument is bs. Ok. Spinosaurus might be much bigger, but there is enough evidencethat it is (or must) be that bigger than Tyrannosaurus or Carcharodontosaurus
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