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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus v Tyrannosaurus rex
Topic Started: Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM (459,308 Views)
Wolf Eagle
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M E G A P H Y S E T E R
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Tyrannosaurus rex
Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes.

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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus
Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur which lived in what is now North Africa, from the lower Albian to lower Cenomanian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 97 million years ago. Spinosaurus may be the largest of all known carnivorous dinosaurs, even larger than Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus. Estimates published in 2005 and 2007 suggest that it was 12.6 to 18 metres (41 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 20.9 tonnes (7.7 to 23.0 short tons) in weight. The skull of Spinosaurus was long and narrow like that of a modern crocodilian. Spinosaurus is thought to have eaten fish; evidence suggests that it lived both on land and in water like a modern crocodilian. The distinctive spines of Spinosaurus, which were long extensions of the vertebrae, grew to at least 1.65 meters (5.4 ft) long and were likely to have had skin connecting them, forming a sail-like structure, although some authors have suggested that the spines were covered in fat and formed a hump. Multiple functions have been put forward for this structure, including thermoregulation and display. Dal Sasso et al. (2005) assumed that Spinosaurus and Suchomimus had the same body proportions in relation to their skull lengths, and thereby calculated that Spinosaurus was 16 to 18 meters (52 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 9 tonnes (7.7 to 9.9 short tons) in weight. The Dal Sasso et al. estimates were criticized because the skull length estimate was uncertain, and (assuming that body mass increases as the cube of body length) scaling Suchomimus which was 11 meters (36 ft) long and 3.8 tonnes (4.2 short tons) in mass to the range of estimated lengths of Spinosaurus would produce an estimated body mass of 11.7 to 16.7 tonnes (12.9 to 18.4 short tons).

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Edited by Taipan, Apr 24 2015, 10:10 PM.
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Black Ice
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Drom King
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Bandog
Dec 24 2012, 02:47 PM
Can someone please explain to me how spinosaurus would win? Please don't just say size and power, be specific. I think this is a really close match
That's what I've been trying to find out for the past few weeks!!!! Have yet to get a reply that doesn't sound like a 2yr old came up with it. All I get is (note, this contains heavy sarcasm and dumbing down) spino destroys everything cuz teh da bigest teropod eva! It use teh strongest powa in da universa to crush teh t.rex and all teh t.rex fanz! ( note, this contains heavy sarcasm)
Edited by Black Ice, Dec 24 2012, 03:12 PM.
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SpinoInWonderland
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Bandog
Dec 24 2012, 02:47 PM
Can someone please explain to me how spinosaurus would win? Please don't just say size and power, be specific. I think this is a really close match
Spinosaurus can shove/knock down the Tyrannosaurus then step on it
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Bandog
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Everything else is just a dog.
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brolyeuphyfusion
Dec 24 2012, 03:22 PM
Bandog
Dec 24 2012, 02:47 PM
Can someone please explain to me how spinosaurus would win? Please don't just say size and power, be specific. I think this is a really close match
Spinosaurus can shove/knock down the Tyrannosaurus then step on it
Surely that is not as far as you analyse these conflicts.
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Black Ice
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brolyeuphyfusion
Dec 24 2012, 03:22 PM
Bandog
Dec 24 2012, 02:47 PM
Can someone please explain to me how spinosaurus would win? Please don't just say size and power, be specific. I think this is a really close match
Spinosaurus can shove/knock down the Tyrannosaurus then step on it
What I tell you bandog rolleyes
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bone crusher
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Broly would probably favor a brown bear over a T Rex in a fight, you guys should just ignore him
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SpinoInWonderland
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Bandog
Dec 24 2012, 03:24 PM
brolyeuphyfusion
Dec 24 2012, 03:22 PM
Bandog
Dec 24 2012, 02:47 PM
Can someone please explain to me how spinosaurus would win? Please don't just say size and power, be specific. I think this is a really close match
Spinosaurus can shove/knock down the Tyrannosaurus then step on it
Surely that is not as far as you analyse these conflicts.
Well, considering the size difference between Tyrannosaurus and Spinosaurus, that is the most likely outcome.

Also keep in mind that Spinosaurus likely had a muscular ridge that made it even stronger. Spinosaurus' spines could not have formed a sail, they resemble the spines of bison more than the thin rods of Dimetrodon and Edaphosaurus. The spines of Spinosaurus are robust, and the space between them are too little to effectively span skin in between. A hump would be too heavy for a bipedal, leaving the muscular ridge as the most likely.

Also, the tall spines of Spinosaurus would make it look larger than it actually is, intimidating the Tyrannosaurus
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SpinoInWonderland
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bone crusher
Dec 24 2012, 03:31 PM
Broly would probably favor a brown bear over a T Rex in a fight
No I wouldn't, a brown bear would get annihilated by a Tyrannosaurus in seconds. Don't make stupid assumptions about me
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SpinoInWonderland
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Verdugo
Dec 24 2012, 03:04 PM
MysteryMeat
Dec 24 2012, 05:32 AM
I have posted these in another thread.
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The Min models looks fairly accurate. The area under the ribcage is accounting for gastralia, which are not mounted.
Sue is just a large robust rex. Even if you shave off a bit of flesh around the torso, It's still not 7000kg. It would be more like 9000kg.
I don't know why you guys continue to reject this figure. No one is saying rex's are averaging 9000kg. Stan's mean estimate is only 5900kg in this study.
We are lucky to have so many t. rex specimens that we have a pretty good idea how big they got. But we have no idea how well MSNM V4047 represents S. aegyptiacus.
But I agree that S. aegyptiacus is significantly larger than an average rex, since the immature holotype is a long as an average rex. It's still bigger than large rex individuals like Sue.
Spino 60/100
Quote:
 
I don't know why you guys continue to reject this figure

You meant Theropod and Broly, right ?. As far as i know, Theropod and Broly are the people UNABLE to accept that estimate and the reason for all of their excuse is T rex !. Yes, because they don't like it, you can see on other threads that Theropod and Broly would happy about the 500+ tonne Sauropod or 15+ tonne Spinosaurus but 9,5 tonne T rex is too obese for them rolleyes .
Don't make stupid assumptions about me, I don't believe in 500+ tonne sauropods

And I believe that Spinosaurus was about in the region of 10-15 tonnes, not 15+ tonnes
Edited by SpinoInWonderland, Dec 24 2012, 03:55 PM.
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Bandog
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Everything else is just a dog.
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brolyeuphyfusion
Dec 24 2012, 03:46 PM
Bandog
Dec 24 2012, 03:24 PM
brolyeuphyfusion
Dec 24 2012, 03:22 PM
Bandog
Dec 24 2012, 02:47 PM
Can someone please explain to me how spinosaurus would win? Please don't just say size and power, be specific. I think this is a really close match
Spinosaurus can shove/knock down the Tyrannosaurus then step on it
Surely that is not as far as you analyse these conflicts.
Well, considering the size difference between Tyrannosaurus and Spinosaurus, that is the most likely outcome.

Also keep in mind that Spinosaurus likely had a muscular ridge that made it even stronger. Spinosaurus' spines could not have formed a sail, they resemble the spines of bison more than the thin rods of Dimetrodon and Edaphosaurus. The spines of Spinosaurus are robust, and the space between them are too little to effectively span skin in between. A hump would be too heavy for a bipedal, leaving the muscular ridge as the most likely.

Also, the tall spines of Spinosaurus would make it look larger than it actually is, intimidating the Tyrannosaurus
I was more worried about the fact that your scenario requires tyrannosaurus to be completely still. Spinosaurus is undoubtedly the stronger animal. I just feel it lacks any effective way to dispatch another larger theropod.
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SpinoInWonderland
The madness has come back...
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Bandog
Dec 24 2012, 03:54 PM
brolyeuphyfusion
Dec 24 2012, 03:46 PM
Bandog
Dec 24 2012, 03:24 PM
brolyeuphyfusion
Dec 24 2012, 03:22 PM
Bandog
Dec 24 2012, 02:47 PM
Can someone please explain to me how spinosaurus would win? Please don't just say size and power, be specific. I think this is a really close match
Spinosaurus can shove/knock down the Tyrannosaurus then step on it
Surely that is not as far as you analyse these conflicts.
Well, considering the size difference between Tyrannosaurus and Spinosaurus, that is the most likely outcome.

Also keep in mind that Spinosaurus likely had a muscular ridge that made it even stronger. Spinosaurus' spines could not have formed a sail, they resemble the spines of bison more than the thin rods of Dimetrodon and Edaphosaurus. The spines of Spinosaurus are robust, and the space between them are too little to effectively span skin in between. A hump would be too heavy for a bipedal, leaving the muscular ridge as the most likely.

Also, the tall spines of Spinosaurus would make it look larger than it actually is, intimidating the Tyrannosaurus
I was more worried about the fact that your scenario requires tyrannosaurus to be completely still. Spinosaurus is undoubtedly the stronger animal. I just feel it lacks any effective way to dispatch another larger theropod.
Unless the Tyrannosaurus has super ninja skills, the Spinosaurus would eventually catch up to it and overpower it soon, it's only a matter of time

and if the Tyrannosaurus goes for the attack the Spinosaurus would likely be able to overpower it, and my scenario would happen

That being said, the Tyrannosaurus can win too, but it only has a small chance of victory, imo the Tyrannosaurus would win 15-20%, and the Spinosaurus would win the other 80-85% of the time
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SpinoInWonderland
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dinosaur
Dec 24 2012, 02:47 PM
Maybe Tyrannosaurus is not a supernatural creature for you brolyeuphyfusion. :unsure:
Tyrannosaurus is not a supernatural creature, that is fact, don't deny it, Tyrannosaurus is only a normal animal

You always set up the Tyrannosaurus as the dinosaurian version of superman when in reality, it has limitations and certainly cannot take on every other land animal unlike what you think
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MysteryMeat
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Verdugo
Dec 24 2012, 03:04 PM
You meant Theropod and Broly, right ?. As far as i know, Theropod and Broly are the people UNABLE to accept that estimate and the reason for all of their excuse is T rex !. Yes, because they don't like it, you can see on other threads that Theropod and Broly would happy about the 500+ tonne Sauropod or 15+ tonne Spinosaurus but 9,5 tonne T rex is too obese for them rolleyes .
Yeah man, you know who I meant.

I don't have a problem with spino winning; I gave it 60/100 myself.
I do have a problem with Broly making baseless statements. First it was the 15m "Das monsters von minden", then it was the 15m Saurophaganax.
He makes projections of 15 meter, 58 ton ceratopsians but refuses to believe in 9500kg Tyrannosaurus.
I have not been here long, so there's probably more examples of it.
And when you present counter-argument that are based on facts, he just disappears and start the same thing all over again in another thread.
At least he keeps the discusion going, and it can be entertaining at times.
Edited by MysteryMeat, Dec 24 2012, 04:21 PM.
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Bandog
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Everything else is just a dog.
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brolyeuphyfusion
Dec 24 2012, 04:04 PM
Bandog
Dec 24 2012, 03:54 PM
brolyeuphyfusion
Dec 24 2012, 03:46 PM
Bandog
Dec 24 2012, 03:24 PM
brolyeuphyfusion
Dec 24 2012, 03:22 PM
Bandog
Dec 24 2012, 02:47 PM
Can someone please explain to me how spinosaurus would win? Please don't just say size and power, be specific. I think this is a really close match
Spinosaurus can shove/knock down the Tyrannosaurus then step on it
Surely that is not as far as you analyse these conflicts.
Well, considering the size difference between Tyrannosaurus and Spinosaurus, that is the most likely outcome.

Also keep in mind that Spinosaurus likely had a muscular ridge that made it even stronger. Spinosaurus' spines could not have formed a sail, they resemble the spines of bison more than the thin rods of Dimetrodon and Edaphosaurus. The spines of Spinosaurus are robust, and the space between them are too little to effectively span skin in between. A hump would be too heavy for a bipedal, leaving the muscular ridge as the most likely.

Also, the tall spines of Spinosaurus would make it look larger than it actually is, intimidating the Tyrannosaurus
I was more worried about the fact that your scenario requires tyrannosaurus to be completely still. Spinosaurus is undoubtedly the stronger animal. I just feel it lacks any effective way to dispatch another larger theropod.
Unless the Tyrannosaurus has super ninja skills, the Spinosaurus would eventually catch up to it and overpower it soon, it's only a matter of time

and if the Tyrannosaurus goes for the attack the Spinosaurus would likely be able to overpower it, and my scenario would happen

That being said, the Tyrannosaurus can win too, but it only has a small chance of victory, imo the Tyrannosaurus would win 15-20%, and the Spinosaurus would win the other 80-85% of the time
For some reason, your reply seems to clutch at hypothetical straws. Being a predator, do you not think it would be likely that spinosaurus would attack with its predatory weapons as animals do today?
In my view, keep in mind I don't know much about these animals, spinosaurus would win 70% of the time. Its potential height advantage means it would be able to access the back of trex' head and pin it with its greater strength and weight. I seriously doubt tyrannosaurus could outmanouvre it and get at the flanks. seeing that both were apex predators, i feel its reasonable that both would react agressivley to the others preference. Once down, spinosaurus would likely just ravage it from that point with its jaws and claws.
If tyrannosaurus was to win, it would be from a bite to spinosaurus snout, head or neck.
Are these scenarios plausible?
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MysteryMeat
Herbivore
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Bandog
Dec 24 2012, 04:37 PM
For some reason, your reply seems to clutch at hypothetical straws. Being a predator, do you not think it would be likely that spinosaurus would attack with its predatory weapons as animals do today?
In my view, keep in mind I don't know much about these animals, spinosaurus would win 70% of the time. Its potential height advantage means it would be able to access the back of trex' head and pin it with its greater strength and weight. I seriously doubt tyrannosaurus could outmanouvre it and get at the flanks. seeing that both were apex predators, i feel its reasonable that both would react agressivley to the others preference. Once down, spinosaurus would likely just ravage it from that point with its jaws and claws.
If tyrannosaurus was to win, it would be from a bite to spinosaurus snout, head or neck.
Are these scenarios plausible?
I find your scenarios plausible.

I think Tyrannosaurus could out maneuver Spinosaurus. Spino is has a very long body and a lot of mass.
It would be very slow turning around. And that back makes it even harder; it's not aerodynamic at all.

If Tyrannosaurus tries to attack the neck or head of Spino it would put itself within the range of Spino's jaws and claws. And you certainly won't kill a Spino by nibbling its tail or hip. I think the way for a rex to win is to attack the lower legs, and it could be quick enough to get out of the way when the spino is turning its long heavy body around. If the already slow spino is further immobilized, then rex has a chance.

But still, spino would naturally have a big advantage, and would win more time than not.
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Bandog
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I see rex getting a hold of spinos snout more than the head or neck.
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