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| Spinosaurus aegyptiacus v Tyrannosaurus rex | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM (459,306 Views) | |
| Wolf Eagle | Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM Post #1 |
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M E G A P H Y S E T E R
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Tyrannosaurus rex Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes. ![]() Spinosaurus aegyptiacus Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur which lived in what is now North Africa, from the lower Albian to lower Cenomanian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 97 million years ago. Spinosaurus may be the largest of all known carnivorous dinosaurs, even larger than Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus. Estimates published in 2005 and 2007 suggest that it was 12.6 to 18 metres (41 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 20.9 tonnes (7.7 to 23.0 short tons) in weight. The skull of Spinosaurus was long and narrow like that of a modern crocodilian. Spinosaurus is thought to have eaten fish; evidence suggests that it lived both on land and in water like a modern crocodilian. The distinctive spines of Spinosaurus, which were long extensions of the vertebrae, grew to at least 1.65 meters (5.4 ft) long and were likely to have had skin connecting them, forming a sail-like structure, although some authors have suggested that the spines were covered in fat and formed a hump. Multiple functions have been put forward for this structure, including thermoregulation and display. Dal Sasso et al. (2005) assumed that Spinosaurus and Suchomimus had the same body proportions in relation to their skull lengths, and thereby calculated that Spinosaurus was 16 to 18 meters (52 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 9 tonnes (7.7 to 9.9 short tons) in weight. The Dal Sasso et al. estimates were criticized because the skull length estimate was uncertain, and (assuming that body mass increases as the cube of body length) scaling Suchomimus which was 11 meters (36 ft) long and 3.8 tonnes (4.2 short tons) in mass to the range of estimated lengths of Spinosaurus would produce an estimated body mass of 11.7 to 16.7 tonnes (12.9 to 18.4 short tons).
Edited by Taipan, Apr 24 2015, 10:10 PM.
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| Jinfengopteryx | Dec 24 2012, 09:18 PM Post #1126 |
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Aspiring paleontologist, science enthusiast and armchair speculative fiction/evolution writer
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You mean this one? http://www-personal.umich.edu/~wilsonja/JAW/Publications_files/Sereno%26al1998.pdf |
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| SpinoInWonderland | Dec 24 2012, 09:51 PM Post #1127 |
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The madness has come back...
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Actually, Greg Paul estimated 10 tonnes for Spinosaurus... |
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| Jinfengopteryx | Dec 24 2012, 10:15 PM Post #1128 |
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Aspiring paleontologist, science enthusiast and armchair speculative fiction/evolution writer
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I was reffering to this: ![]() http://dinoweb.ucoz.ru/_fr/4/My_theropod_is_.pdf Edited by Jinfengopteryx, Dec 24 2012, 10:16 PM.
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| Ausar | Dec 24 2012, 10:19 PM Post #1129 |
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Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
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Hey guys, will the claws of Spinosaurus do significant damage? Some people say it probably wouldn't but will it? |
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| SpinoInWonderland | Dec 24 2012, 10:21 PM Post #1130 |
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The madness has come back...
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No, unless it slashes the throat or gouges an eye... |
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| theropod | Dec 25 2012, 12:53 AM Post #1131 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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yes (tough I found it on a different site not in PDF format and relied on PDF creator to download it-I´m really dumb, aren´t I?) I posted a link to the skull reconstruction and mine was based on it. Edited by theropod, Dec 25 2012, 12:54 AM.
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| theropod | Dec 25 2012, 01:30 AM Post #1132 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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here, as a christmas present for you:![]() Reconstruction of the skull of Spinosaurus aegyptiacus specimen MSNM V4047 (Dal Sasso, 2005) in dorsal and lateral view. Cranium restored after Suchomimus (Sereno et al, 1998), alternate version made to match the shape of Irritator more closely. Mmandible reconstructed basing on the holotype and Dal Sassos reconstruction. It is particularly notable how much more robust the dentary is in any case when compared to the rostrum and even the cranium. Maybe the relatively great stresses expirienced by the rostrum in a dorsoventral direction and the comparatively massive mandible are adaptions for handlihg struggling fish, meaning the weight was held by the mandible while the cranium mainly expierienced lateral forces that it was more reinforced against. Also it is important to note the rostrum of spinosaurus might seem thin and weak, but it is a pretty massive piece of bone, and while not as deep as that of suchomimus or baryonyx it is probably less pneumatic, with thicker bones and undoubtedly broader. Edited by theropod, Dec 25 2012, 01:31 AM.
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| Fragillimus335 | Dec 25 2012, 02:01 AM Post #1133 |
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Omnivore
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That estimate is 25 years old, made before we even found the new, adult, Spinosaurus specimen! Greg now puts Spinosaurus at a minimum of 10 tons. |
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| Jinfengopteryx | Dec 25 2012, 02:03 AM Post #1134 |
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Aspiring paleontologist, science enthusiast and armchair speculative fiction/evolution writer
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I know about this, but if you scale a 4t, 15m Spinosaurus to 16-18t, you will get less than 7-9t. P.S. Does anyone have a source for 10t+? Because it sounds very logical. |
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| blaze | Dec 25 2012, 02:23 AM Post #1135 |
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Carnivore
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The Princeton Field Guide to Dinosaurs |
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| SpinoInWonderland | Dec 25 2012, 02:28 AM Post #1136 |
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The madness has come back...
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Apparently, the 10-tonne estimate was for a 14-meter specimen... http://s6.postimage.org/ho2y1jqg1/Spinosaurus_Greg_Paul.png |
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| SpinoInWonderland | Dec 25 2012, 02:30 AM Post #1137 |
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The madness has come back...
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Scaling Greg Paul's Spinosaurus to 17 meters in length would give us a ~17.9-tonne Spinosaurus |
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| MysteryMeat | Dec 25 2012, 03:59 AM Post #1138 |
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Herbivore
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That's not the same as rejecting a figure. Nobody's denying that lower estimates have been given, you don't have to tell me that. Gimme a quote from those people that actually saying they chose to reject the 9500kg figure.
We are not using 10000kg rex, or 20000kg. We are referring to a specific specimen.
Haven't read the whole paper. It's online with open access, just google it. If I could find time to do a comparison between the mounted skeleton vs. drawings vs. Sue osteology photos I would. Probably after the new years though. It's pretty obvious though the ribs are positioned differently, which could account for some silhouette discrepancy.
Well then, do you agree that giga holotype is bigger than a small rex like Stan, but smaller than a large rex like Sue. While spino MSNM V4047 probably was about twice as big as Stan
You are contradicting yourself here. You use what you believe to be a far too liberal number for sue but an extremely conservative number for Spino. If you use 12.3m, 9.5t, use 16m, 16t spino, since you believe both are absurd. Do you even believe in a 16m, 10t spino? |
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| Black Ice | Dec 25 2012, 04:29 AM Post #1139 |
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Drom King
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It wouldn't make a difference, spinosaurus it too big to be able to have a ridge of muscle and still be bipedal. |
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| theropod | Dec 25 2012, 08:06 AM Post #1140 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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I already posted a comment greg Paul made on the PLOS one study, i don´t know for the rest but this already shows my point that there are other estimates and not all agree with the figure.
I don´t know what you mean by that, what does it have to do with what I wrote?
I once made a comparison of the scan from the study, it´s wraps and hartmans version, it ought to be somewhere here on this board and also in my gallery.
Understand what I mean? we can debate whether T. rex should be heavier than Giganotosaurus if it bases on bulk and size, but we cannot state so only comparing this T. rex figure to a low figure for Giganotosaurus. It is clear the metod would increase giganotosaurus mass estimate jsut as much as that for T. rex, but the question is which estimate to use.
Well, of course such a heavy spinosaurus would also have problems walking imo, but I don´t see what is your point then. I´m not contradicting my point, I´m not believing spinosaurus to have been that bulky either. if 9,5t sue has problems walking, 16t spino also has, but I believe in neither. imo the 16-18m range for spino is quite good, with weight figures of ~10-13,5t (to be compared to a 8t max for giganotosaurus and carcharodontosaurus and a 6,5t sue) |
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