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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus v Tyrannosaurus rex
Topic Started: Jan 7 2012, 02:16 AM (459,297 Views)
Wolf Eagle
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Tyrannosaurus rex
Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes.

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Spinosaurus aegyptiacus
Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur which lived in what is now North Africa, from the lower Albian to lower Cenomanian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 97 million years ago. Spinosaurus may be the largest of all known carnivorous dinosaurs, even larger than Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus. Estimates published in 2005 and 2007 suggest that it was 12.6 to 18 metres (41 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 20.9 tonnes (7.7 to 23.0 short tons) in weight. The skull of Spinosaurus was long and narrow like that of a modern crocodilian. Spinosaurus is thought to have eaten fish; evidence suggests that it lived both on land and in water like a modern crocodilian. The distinctive spines of Spinosaurus, which were long extensions of the vertebrae, grew to at least 1.65 meters (5.4 ft) long and were likely to have had skin connecting them, forming a sail-like structure, although some authors have suggested that the spines were covered in fat and formed a hump. Multiple functions have been put forward for this structure, including thermoregulation and display. Dal Sasso et al. (2005) assumed that Spinosaurus and Suchomimus had the same body proportions in relation to their skull lengths, and thereby calculated that Spinosaurus was 16 to 18 meters (52 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 9 tonnes (7.7 to 9.9 short tons) in weight. The Dal Sasso et al. estimates were criticized because the skull length estimate was uncertain, and (assuming that body mass increases as the cube of body length) scaling Suchomimus which was 11 meters (36 ft) long and 3.8 tonnes (4.2 short tons) in mass to the range of estimated lengths of Spinosaurus would produce an estimated body mass of 11.7 to 16.7 tonnes (12.9 to 18.4 short tons).

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Edited by Taipan, Apr 24 2015, 10:10 PM.
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MysteryMeat
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theropod
Dec 30 2012, 09:50 PM
@verdugo: Holtz made that up then? The point is, regardless whether that measurements is correct that there is more than one way the skull could have been measured, if 1,53m for sue is incorrect, why not 1,5m for MOR 008? And it is not proven that the measurement is really incorrect. Who guarantees you that if Holtz is incorrect with his figure for the skull of sue, the press release about MOR 008 is correct and measured the same way as 1,4m sue?
Is there a source stating T. X had a proportionally smaller skull? What I have seen suggests otherwise.

Just read the measurements from the image that verdugo posted. It's 135.8cm from tip of PM to Occipital, and 140-ish from PM to QJ
I can't guaranteed you either is absolutely wrong, but Brochu's measurements are much more specific.

I have intended to talk to Holtz in person for a while now, when he's not busy. I hope he wouldn't mind sparing some time talking to a random person lol.

I think 1.5 is probably the longer measurement, from premaxilla tip to QJ.

It's in the book Tyrannosaurus Tyrant King. I don't have the book right now, I will provide you the specific paragraph when I get back home.
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theropod
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all this is pretty confusing. I currently have no idea what is correct. it appears logical to presume the skull length measured to the occipital condyle was shorter, and Brochus measurements are very detailed. on the other hand it seems like at the measurements he gave the maxilla would be a bit too short.
certainly we cannot trust the figure for MOR to be reliable tough, when even in sue of which we know what they are the measurements are so contradictory.
Edited by theropod, Dec 31 2012, 05:31 AM.
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Verdugo
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theropod
Dec 31 2012, 01:31 AM
I scaled my T. rex skull to the measurement Brochu reported and it ended up at a maximum lenght of 146cm:
Posted ImagePosted Image

It is obvious T. rex has the more impressive skull, it´s even more notable from a dorsal or ventral view which I didn´t include here. Still I wouldn´t say spinos skull is whimpy (well, the rostrum might be, but the dentary definitely isn´t). In any case it is still large and powerful in absolute terms, even tough when it is only about the bite T. rex has a clear advantage.

Hmm, the scale is greatly inaccurate, PLEASE THEROPOD, USE SOMETHING FROM SCIENTISTS INSTEAD OF YOUR MAKE UP ONE.

I would criticize it right now before you poison people mind with your rubbish Spinosaurus skull

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http://s6.postimage.org/od9ksn0rl/mandibles.jpg
Andrea Cau
 
The dental holotype of Spinosaurus is shorter than that of Tyrannosaurus, but probably comparable in length if estimated on the item of Milan. In any case, the dental Spinosaurus is often less in amplitude than that of Tyrannosaurus.

Understand what flaw in your scale now ?

MSNM is supposed to have dentary as long as those of Sue but still be shallower. While your make up Spino skull has dentary both longer and deeper than Sue, which is VERY WRONG !!!

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theropod
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"which is very wrong!!!!"

You should think a bit more before criticising others work. This dentary size bases on Dal Sassos reconstruction. Has it ever come to mind that it might be your own size that is wrong and not always mine?

Furthermore I read one of stromers measurements was in fact 95cm for the dentary.

Obviously, either the measurements for T. rex are too low, or Dal Sassos reconstruction of the spinosaurus mandible-which both seem unlikely, at least to a significant margin.
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7Alx
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Ummm...if that is correct. It implies MSMN V4047 was quite heavy, like 20 tons+. [/quote]So Spinosaurus was more likely quadruped, if it was 20+ tons.
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Fragillimus335
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I think MysteryMeat's post kind of flew under the radar, but it got me searching, and I found something very interesting....The skull and tails of spinosaurids vary quite a bit, so instead, let's focus on just the dorsal vertebra. From what I can gather the dorsals of the holotype Spinosaurus are just about 194% longer than those of Baryonyx. I measured the snout to last sacral distance in Baryonyx, and got 4.5 meters. Using the dorsal scaling ratio we get 4.5*1.94=8.73 meters for the holotype of Spinosaurus. Then scaling that value up by 20% will approximate the size of MSMN V4047. 8.73*1.2=10.5 meters for snout to last sacral length. For comparison Tyrannosaurus (Sue) has a snout to LS measurement of ~5.7 meters.

These measurements indicate a Spinosaurus of over 19 meters, and 20+ tons. Don't jump all over me on this...check the numbers for yourself....
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theropod
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I think that demonstrates my point pretty well. Just a proportionally longer dorsasl collun doesn't mean it was overally shorter when compared to skull lenght, let alone lighter.
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MysteryMeat
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Fragillimus335
Jan 1 2013, 08:17 AM
I think MysteryMeat's post kind of flew under the radar, but it got me searching, and I found something very interesting....The skull and tails of spinosaurids vary quite a bit, so instead, let's focus on just the dorsal vertebra. From what I can gather the dorsals of the holotype Spinosaurus are just about 194% longer than those of Baryonyx. I measured the snout to last sacral distance in Baryonyx, and got 4.5 meters. Using the dorsal scaling ratio we get 4.5*1.94=8.73 meters for the holotype of Spinosaurus. Then scaling that value up by 20% will approximate the size of MSMN V4047. 8.73*1.2=10.5 meters for snout to last sacral length. For comparison Tyrannosaurus (Sue) has a snout to LS measurement of ~5.7 meters.

These measurements indicate a Spinosaurus of over 19 meters, and 20+ tons. Don't jump all over me on this...check the numbers for yourself....
You probably measured from Scott Hartman's drawing?
Most of Baryonyx's dorsals are between 9-11cm long.
Hartman drew them much larger than the given measurements, in some cases up to 50% longer, resulting in a much longer vertebral column.
The forelimb seems about the right size, but the hind limb doesn't follow given measurements either.
Baryonyx is a very oddly proportioned critter.
Edited by MysteryMeat, Jan 1 2013, 09:32 AM.
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larry choda spinosaurus
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you change your mind when you would be resurrected biggest killer dino monster
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larry choda spinosaurus
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spinosaurus is widely seen his weapons win
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larry choda spinosaurus
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I'm only a scratch of 35 cm a spinosaurus is a land t rex easily
thanks to these very muscular arms (given the size of the blades) 2 m
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larry choda spinosaurus
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I'm only a scratch of 35 cm a spinosaurus is a land t rex easily
thanks to these very muscular arms (given the size of the blades) 2 m
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Godzillasaurus
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Superpredator
Sep 1 2012, 04:48 PM
I don't think Sauropods even lived with Tarbosaurus!
Yea, they did. Many Asian sauropods lived during the Cretaceous (tarbosaurus lived in Asia in case you were unaware)! However, as stated earlier, tarbosaurus wasn't even designed for taking down sauropods anyway.
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7Alx
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Fragillimus335
Jan 1 2013, 08:17 AM

These measurements indicate a Spinosaurus of over 19 meters, and 20+ tons. Don't jump all over me on this...check the numbers for yourself....
Fantasy, again fantasy

19 m and 20+ ton Spinosaurus couldn't survive due not enough food, let alone working as predator. You don't understant that there is such thing like limit.
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Fragillimus335
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7Alx
Jan 1 2013, 05:19 PM
Fragillimus335
Jan 1 2013, 08:17 AM

These measurements indicate a Spinosaurus of over 19 meters, and 20+ tons. Don't jump all over me on this...check the numbers for yourself....
Fantasy, again fantasy

19 m and 20+ ton Spinosaurus couldn't survive due not enough food, let alone working as predator. You don't understant that there is such thing like limit.
Try refuting my info with facts, not opinions...
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