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| Lion - Panthera leo | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 7 2012, 08:37 PM (37,437 Views) | |
| Taipan | Jan 9 2014, 03:20 PM Post #31 |
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Lions Face Extinction in West Africa By Tia Ghose, Staff Writer | January 08, 2014 05:00pm ET Lions in West Africa are on the brink of extinction, new research suggests. Fewer than 250 adults may be left in West Africa, and those big cats are confined to less than 1 percent of their historic range. The new study, detailed today (Jan. 8) in the journal PLOS ONE, suggests that without dramatic conservation efforts, three of the four West African lion populations could become extinct in the next five years, with further declines in the one remaining population, study co-author Philipp Henschel, the lion program survey coordinator for Panthera, a global wildcat conservation organization, wrote in an email. Threatened cat The majestic lion once roamed throughout West Africa, from Nigeria to Senegal. But as people have converted wild lands to pastureland, hunted the lion's traditional prey — antelopes, gazelles, wildebeest, buffalos and zebras — and gotten into conflicts with the animals, the big cat population has plummeted in West Africa. Cash-strapped West African governments have put little money into lion conservation, in part because "wildlife tourism is quasi-absent in West Africa," Henschel said. And research institutions have similarly neglected the region. "Like wildlife tourists, most international research institutions and conservation organizations active in Africa also flock to the iconic game parks in East and southern Africa, meaning that lions faced a silent demise in West Africa over the past decades," Henschel told LiveScience. Massive survey To remedy that, Henschel and his colleagues recently completed a massive, six-year survey of West Africa's lions, using remote cameras, interviews with people and counts of lion tracks. The survey, carried out between October 2006 and May 2012, builds on a smaller study done last year, which found shrinking savannas for lions in the region. About 400 adult and juvenile lions existed in the region. And the wild cats, which were originally thought to have inhabited 21 separate regions, actually exist in just four. Their range is now confined to pockets in Senegal, Nigeria and the borderlands between Benin, Niger and Burkina Faso. These isolated populations are also threatened due to reduced genetic variation. "Individuals are limited in their choice of mates, and end up reproducing with closely related individuals. Such inbreeding reduces the genetic fitness of sired offspring, which, in lions, manifests itself in lower reproductive success caused by lower sperm counts and higher rates of abnormal sperm in males," Henschel told LiveScience. Endangered status To keep the lion from going extinct in Africa, governments and conservation organizations should boost budgets for conservation parks and personnel, to keep people from killing the lions' prey or the big cats themselves, Henschel said. The International Union for Conservation of Nature currently lists the lion as vulnerable in Africa. The West African lion is not considered a different species, so it is rated as regionally endangered, Henschel said. But recent studies suggest the West African lions are genetically distinct from their brethren in other regions of the continent and are closely related to Barbary lions of North Africa and the few Asiatic lions left in India. The genetic findings, combined with the dire survey results, suggest the West African lion should be listed as a critically endangered subspecies, or at the least, as a regionally critically endangered animal, Henschel said. http://www.livescience.com/42424-west-african-lions-face-extinction.html The Lion in West Africa Is Critically Endangered Philipp Henschel, Lauren Coad, Cole Burton, Beatrice Chataigner, Andrew Dunn, David MacDonald, Yohanna Saidu, Luke T. B. Hunter Published: January 08, 2014DOI: 10.1371/journal.pone.0083500 Abstract The African lion has declined to <35,000 individuals occupying 25% of its historic range. The situation is most critical for the geographically isolated populations in West Africa, where the species is considered regionally endangered. Elevating their conservation significance, recent molecular studies establish the genetic distinctiveness of West and Central African lions from other extant African populations. Interventions to save West African lions are urgently required. However formulating effective conservation strategies has been hampered by a lack of data on the species' current distribution, status, and potential management deficiencies of protected areas (PAs) harboring lions. Our study synthesized available expert opinion and field data to close this knowledge gap, and formulate recommendations for the conservation of West African lions. We undertook lion surveys in 13 large (>500 km2) PAs and compiled evidence of lion presence/absence for a further eight PAs. All PAs were situated within Lion Conservation Units, geographical units designated as priority lion areas by wildlife experts at a regional lion conservation workshop in 2005. Lions were confirmed in only 4 PAs, and our results suggest that only 406 (273–605) lions remain in West Africa, representing <250 mature individuals. Confirmed lion range is estimated at 49,000 km2, or 1.1% of historical range in West Africa. PAs retaining lions were larger than PAs without lions and had significantly higher management budgets. We encourage revision of lion taxonomy, to recognize the genetic distinctiveness of West African lions and highlight their potentially unique conservation value. Further, we call for listing of the lion as critically endangered in West Africa, under criterion C2a(ii) for populations with <250 mature individuals. Finally, considering the relative poverty of lion range states in West Africa, we call for urgent mobilization of investment from the international community to assist range states to increase management effectiveness of PAs retaining lions. http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0083500 Figures |
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| TheLioness | Mar 14 2014, 01:14 PM Post #32 |
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~Lion-Tiger War Veteran~
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A very good read on Asiatic lions. http://tigertribe.net/lion/lion-subspecies-asiatic-lion/ |
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| Taipan | Apr 2 2014, 01:59 PM Post #33 |
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Modern lions' origin revealed by genetic analysis By Matt Walker Editor, BBC Nature 2 April 2014 Last updated at 01:22 ![]() Not all lions are equal The origin and history of modern lions have been revealed by scientists. A genetic analysis of living lions and museum specimens confirms modern lions' most recent common ancestor lived around 124,000 years ago. Modern lions evolved into two groups; one lives in Eastern and Southern Africa, the other includes lions in Central and West Africa, and in India. This second group is now endangered, meaning half the genetic diversity of modern lions is at risk of extinction. Details of the findings, which may aid the conservation of lions, are published in the journal BMC Evolutionary Biology. Unravelling the history of the lion has been difficult. Animals living in tropical areas tend to leave fewer fossilised remains behind. Lions have also been persecuted during their recent history, with whole populations being wiped out by human activity. Such gaps in the fossil record, and in the distribution of lions, makes it difficult to reconstruct their past. So an international team of scientists turned to the ancient DNA within lion specimens held in collections and museums around the world. Led by Dr Ross Barnett of Durham University, UK, the team sequenced mitochondrial DNA from museum-held specimens, including from different subspecies, including the extinct Barbary lion of North Africa, the extinct Iranian lion, and lions from Central and West Africa. The researchers compared these with genetic sequences drawn from other lions living in Asia, and across other parts of Africa, and then worked out how the different subspecies of lion evolved. The study revealed that the single species of lion that persists today, Panthera leo, first appeared in Eastern-Southern Africa, supporting the conclusions of earlier research. Around 124,000 years ago, in the Late Pleistocene, different subspecies began to evolve. ![]() African lion Around that time, tropical rainforests expanded across equatorial Africa, and the Sahara region turned to savannah. Lions living in the south and east of the continent became separated from, and began to diverge from, those living in the west and north. The genetic differences between these two groups of lions remain today. Around 51,000 years ago, the continent dried and the Sahara expanded, cutting off lions in the west from those in the north. At the same time, lions in the west expanded their range into Central Africa, which became more inhabitable. Since then, Africa's great rivers, including the Nile and Niger, have helped keep these lions apart. Another detail only revealed by the study of ancient DNA in specimens, is that modern lions began their exodus out of Africa just 21,000 years ago. At the end of the Pleistocene, lions left North Africa, eventually reaching as far as India. Much later, just around 5,000 years ago, another group of lions left the continent, reaching what is today Iran, in the Middle East. These lions are now extinct. These discoveries may have important implications for the conservation of modern lions. Fewer than 400 Asian lions (P. leo persica) survive, living on the Kathiawar Peninsula of India, with the subspecies listed as Endangered by the International Union for the Conservation of Nature. "Lion populations in West Africa and Central Africa, which have drastically declined over the past few decades, are actually more closely related to the Indian lion than to lions in, say, Somalia or Botswana," Dr Barnett told BBC Nature. Despite the large geographical distances between them, these lions also seem closely related to Iranian lions and the Barbary lions of North Africa. "I was most surprised by the incredibly close relationship between the extinct Barbary lion from North Africa and the extant Asian lion from India," said Dr Barnett. ![]() A possible Barbary lion once living in Leipzig Zoo, Germany. The Barbary lion is one of the most enigmatic of all large predators, both due to its impressive appearance and uncertainty over its fate. Once numerous across North Africa, the Barbary lion was the most physically distinctive type of lion, including those living elsewhere in Africa and Asia. It had an extensive mane, and differences in the shape of its head included a more pointed crown and narrow muzzle. People at the time also talked of it being larger, with different coloured eyes to other lions, though it is unclear whether either difference was real. It remains uncertain whether any Barbary lions exist today, and conservationists have talked of resurrecting the subspecies. Circumstantial evidence suggested some may have survived in captivity, as part of a collection held by the royal family of Morocco. But previous research and that by Dr Barnett's team suggests there were not in fact true Barbary lions. If so, and Barbary lions are in fact extinct, then the new study suggests that closely-related Indian lions could be reintroduced to their habitat, as a way to best restore lions to North Africa. "This has implications for any future attempts to reintroduce lions into North Africa," said Dr Barnett. "They could probably be re-seeded with Indian lions." Around a third of African lions are thought have disappeared in the past 20 years. Of special concern, say Dr Barnett and colleagues, are West and Central African lions, which may be close to extinction in the wild, with around 400-800 and 900 lions living in each region respectively. Relatively few lions of these subspecies are held within zoos for conservation. "If you think of lion diversity as two distinct branches then the regions where lions are doing ok, in Eastern and Southern Africa, reflect only half the total diversity," said Dr Barnett. "The other half is represented by the diversity in India, West Africa, and Central Africa. "If the West and Central African populations were to slip away, that whole branch would only survive in the tiny Indian lion population." http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/26736688 New Genetic Study Reconstructs Distribution History of Lion Apr 30, 2014 by Sci-News.com Scientists led by Dr Greger Larson of Durham University, UK, have for the first time compared DNA from living and extinct lions to reconstruct the historical and current distribution of the extant lion species (Panthera leo). ![]() Panthera leo, male, in Namibia. Image credit: Kevin Pluck / CC BY 2.0. Only one species of lion exists today, with isolated populations living across Africa and in India. During the Late Pleistocene, about 124,000 years ago, lions were one of the most successful land mammals on the planet, with many subgroups existing across a huge geographical range from southern Africa to Eurasia and Central America. Modern hunting and habitat destruction have left lions in India and Africa critically endangered. In the past twenty years around 30 per cent of the total lion population in Africa has been lost. Current conservation policies recognise only two distinct geographical groups. However, Dr Larson and his colleagues have identified the five groups of lions as North African/Asian, West African, Central African, South African and East-South African. ![]() This image shows the distribution of Panthera leo at different times: black arrows show estimated spatial diffusions; tropical rainforests are shown in light grey; maximal extent during humid periods - black dashed line, and minimal extent during arid periods - white dashed line; the Great Rift Valley is shown in dark grey; African rivers are shown in blue; Co - Congo; Ng - Niger; Ni - Nile; Se - Senegal. Image credit: Ross Barnett et al. They sequenced mitochondrial DNA from museum-preserved individuals, including the extinct Barbary lion (Panthera leo leo) and the Asian lion (Panthera leo persica), as well as lions from West and Central Africa. The results, published in the journal BMC Evolutionary Biology, show that modern lions originated in Africa in the Late Pleistocene and that climate changes in Africa may have isolated lion populations, leading to the five unique geographical groups. Humid periods in Africa led to the growth of tropical rainforest and savannah environments, creating barriers for lion groups that are not well adapted to living in such habitats. These environments then retreated during dry periods, allowing lions to leave sub-Saharan Africa around 21,000 years ago and populate north Africa and Asia. http://www.sci-news.com/genetics/science-distribution-lion-01892.html Revealing the maternal demographic history of Panthera leo using ancient DNA and a spatially explicit genealogical analysis Ross Barnett, Nobuyuki Yamaguchi, Beth Shapiro, Simon YW Ho, Ian Barnes, Richard Sabin, Lars Werdelin, Jacques Cuisin and Greger Larson BMC Evolutionary Biology 2014, 14:70 doi:10.1186/1471-2148-14-70 Received:18 December 2013 Accepted:13 March 2014 Published:2 April 2014 Abstract Background Understanding the demographic history of a population is critical to conservation and to our broader understanding of evolutionary processes. For many tropical large mammals, however, this aim is confounded by the absence of fossil material and by the misleading signal obtained from genetic data of recently fragmented and isolated populations. This is particularly true for the lion which as a consequence of millennia of human persecution, has large gaps in its natural distribution and several recently extinct populations. Results We sequenced mitochondrial DNA from museum-preserved individuals, including the extinct Barbary lion (Panthera leo leo) and Iranian lion (P. l. persica), as well as lions from West and Central Africa. We added these to a broader sample of lion sequences, resulting in a data set spanning the historical range of lions. Our Bayesian phylogeographical analyses provide evidence for highly supported, reciprocally monophyletic lion clades. Using a molecular clock, we estimated that recent lion lineages began to diverge in the Late Pleistocene. Expanding equatorial rainforest probably separated lions in South and East Africa from other populations. West African lions then expanded into Central Africa during periods of rainforest contraction. Lastly, we found evidence of two separate incursions into Asia from North Africa, first into India and later into the Middle East. Conclusions We have identified deep, well-supported splits within the mitochondrial phylogeny of African lions, arguing for recognition of some regional populations as worthy of independent conservation. More morphological and nuclear DNA data are now needed to test these subdivisions. http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2148/14/70 Edited by Taipan, May 1 2014, 01:35 PM.
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| Vodmeister | May 1 2014, 04:01 AM Post #34 |
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Ultimate Predator
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Size & weight of lions by population;![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
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| Asadas | Aug 30 2014, 05:18 AM Post #35 |
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Herbivore
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As Far as I know Dr. Packer has not weight Ngorongoro lions, so where does the list above come from 25? He also stated that in the study quoted at 212 kg he had nothing to do with.![]() Dr Packer has also quoted this weight in his guide book 6Year old males Males are full grown, in their ‘prime’ and massive. They should stand about 1.2 m tall and weigh 126–272 kg and be about 2.4–3.3 m long (excluding the tail)...Dr.Packer http://www.cbs.umn.edu/sites/default/files/public/downloads/Lion_Aging_Guide-1.pdf Zero South Africa 260 kg ![]() 260 kg gorged adjusted 240kg Dr. Berry ![]() 253 kg lion weighed by Scientist ![]() ![]() Dr. Jackson Kristin Nowell and Peter Jackson page 42 ...A male shot near Mount Kenya in 1993 weighed 272 kg (R Koch in lin 1993) http://carnivoractionplans1.free.fr/wildcats.pdf ![]()
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| romanianborz | Sep 3 2014, 08:29 PM Post #36 |
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Autotrophic Organism
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An impressive story!! I am glad that she was saved http://shalieb.com/rescuing-a-wounded-lioness-9-pics-1 |
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| Warsaw2014 | Dec 17 2014, 07:43 AM Post #37 |
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Herbivore
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"...BCS scores showed a strong linear relationship (r=0.939) to weights for lions. This relationship was similar in other large felids so lion data were combined with data from 2.2 tigers (Panthera tigris) and 1.0 jaguar (Panthera onca) for a total of 50 weight/score pairs with pairs for each individual spanning at least 3 body conditions. Weights were normalized (weight at BCS 5 = 100%) and plotted against body condition scores (Figure 7). Linear regression for combined data clustered by animals gave a value of 7.3% change in bodyweight per unit BCS (95% confidence interval 6.3 to 8.3%, r = 0.957). More specific body composition techniques exist and can further validate BCS scales in exotic animals, however these techniques are challenging or expensive to apply. Beyond the data reported above, body composition has not been assessed in lions, however it has been estimated from total body water from 14 wild lions in 2 studies (Clarke & Berry, 1992; Green et al., 1984). Average total body water was 64% and did not differ between males and females or immature vs. mature lions (P>0.05). This corresponds to an average fat mass of 13% bodyweight (range 3 to 21%)[glow=red,2,300][/glow]. Studies in domestic cats using the same method, bioimpedance or DEXA, found fat masses of 23%, 28% and 5-55% bodyweight (Ballevre et al., 1994; Elliot, 2006; German et al., 2006). From these studies, an equation was derived to estimate body composition from body condition scores using a 9 pt scale in the cat (German et al., 2006): %Fat Mass = 6.652(BCS)-14.07 Based on this equation an increase in 1 body condition score is equivalent to a 6.652% increase in bodyweight, very similar to the 7.3% estimated for large felids. The equation also predicts 0 fat mass at BCS 2 which would seem appropriate the BCS systems for lions presented above. Accordingly, the equation for estimating fat mass from BCS in domestic cats appears to be applicable to lions and other big cats, estimating 20% body fat corresponding to a BCS 5 out of 9. Extrapolating from this equation, wild lions ranged from 2.5 to 5.25 BCS, with an average BCS of 4 out of 9 (Clarke & Berry, 1992; Green et al., 1984)..." CREATED BY THE. AZA LION SPECIES SURVIVAL PLAN®. IN ASSOCIATION WITH THE. AZA FELID TAXON ADVISORY GROUP. LION. Edited by Taipan, Jan 3 2015, 02:06 PM.
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| maker | Dec 20 2014, 11:51 AM Post #38 |
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Apex Predator
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http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/12/141202-bomas-lions-africa-animals-science-living-walls/?source=abt_ro_rel_news_cats |
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| Warsaw2014 | Jan 2 2015, 11:58 PM Post #39 |
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Herbivore
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Measuring the bodies of large African predators![]() ![]() A comprehensive procedure was developed to measure the bodies of large African predators. A maned male lion (Panthera leo) was used as example, but the procedure has been used to measure other predators such as leopard (Panthera pardus), cheetah (Acinonyx jubatus), caracal (Caracal caracal), serval (Felis serval), Cape fox (Vulpes chama) and black-backed jackal (Canis mesomelas). http://natagri.ufs.ac.za/content.aspx?uid=20 BTW The Tiger: Power and Fragility by Dr. K. Ullas Karanth http://savingwildtigers.o...gwildtigers/karanth.html "The Indian tigers are smaller with average males weighing around 200 to 250 kilograms and females a 100 kilos less. Indian tigers are about 155 to 225 centimetres long including head and body, with an additional tail length of 75 to 100 centimetres, if measured correctly along the body curves. However, many old shikar accounts report a nose to tail-tip distance, measured straight between wooden pegs (and, as a way suspected, sometimes between pegs of whisky) making it difficult to get accurate size estimates from them." |
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| maker | Jan 3 2015, 03:15 PM Post #40 |
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Apex Predator
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What does it mean Indian tigers are "smaller", African lions are bigger? |
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| Ntwadumela | Apr 6 2015, 11:58 AM Post #41 |
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Herbivore
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| Taipan | Jun 16 2015, 05:15 PM Post #42 |
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Asiatic lion population rises by 27% in five years Jeremy Hance June 15, 2015 ![]() Asiatic lion. Photo by: Sumeet Moghe/Creative Commons 3.0. A new survey last month put the number of wild Asiatic lions (Panthera leo persica) at 523 individuals, a rise of 27% from the previous survey in 2010. Once roaming across much of Central and Western Asia, Asiatic lions today are found in only one place: Gir Forest National Park and surrounding environs in western India. "There are 109 male lions, 201 females and 213 cubs in the Gir sanctuary and nearby forest areas of Junagadh district," said Anandiben Patel, the chief minister of the state Gujarat, where Gir Forest National Park is located. The population has been steadily rising over the last ten years. In 2005, India counted 359 Asiatic lions. Then in 2010 the population rose to 411 lions. Classified as Endangered by the IUCN Red List, the Asiatic lion is threatened by poaching. But mostly the population is imperiled due to surviving in just one place; conservationists fear that a single natural disaster or disease could wipe them out. Still, plans to move a portion of the population have been held up to date by Gujarat state. Read more: http://news.mongabay.com/2015/0615-hance-asiatic-lions-up.html#ixzz3dD0acHis |
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| WaveRiders_ | Aug 23 2015, 04:12 AM Post #43 |
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Autotrophic Organism
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I am not sure if anybody is aware that there is an issue concerning the 146 kg male lion named “Young Tom” from the Ndutu area of the Ngorongoro Conservation Area (Ngorongoro CA). This ca. 3.5 year old animal at time of capture in mid-October 2012 after have been quite seriously injured for some time (although apparently found in not too bad condition considering the injures) has been mistakenly considered in Animal Forum as a lion from the Ngorongoro Crater. Unfortunately I have the bad duty to highlight that it appears to me that one of the first discussion in the Internet on Young Tom being misunderstood as a CRATER lion involved peter, which is a pity as I rate him a good and intelligent poster unfortunately more often then not far too biased for my taste. GuateGojira was involved in the discussion and I can imagine he hurried up to include him in his table of East African Lion Morphometrics data as a representative of a very healthy fully grown adult male. Same mistake was done again in 2014 by the young GuateGojira (actually not too young anymore and therefore not forgivable anymore) for a 5 years old male lion named “Puyol” weighing ca. 235 kg (according to a private e-mail not sent to me that I have seen in the Internet the weight minus the scale of bed was 237 kg) captured around the Ndutu/Masek region of Ngorongoro Conservation Area in 2013. Even this lion is not a Ngorongoro CRATER Lion. This time, very much reluctantly I assume, GuateGojira had to fill his carefully “selected” East African Lion Weights and Measurements table with a big lion. I have been told my common friends that he was nearly committing suicide not to do that, but at the end he changed his mind in the name of science. So he did when the tremendous convulsion attack he suffered ceased, but specifying “gorged” as suggested by the biologist who captured the animal. By the way, after years and years of studies and complicated mathematical models involving relativistic theory, rocket science and quantum physics, GuateGojira and Apollo have assessed that lions always gorge themselves when eat while tigers only take small snacks even when baited and hungry and never drink before being weighed in the morning by scientists, revealing an amazing ability to predict an anaesthesia is imminent. Anyway, I therefore praise him for his tremendous effort in including Puyol in his world-wide acknowledged tables whose format is going to be used as standard by space biologists of NASA to summarize weights and morphometric measurements of animals living in Pandora. This is strengthening my hope and belief that Guate has chances to become a good guy at full maturity when he will get rid of his unnecessary virtual verbal violence and his excessive bias. Please Guate do not disappoint me as I bet big money on you to excel one day in the future, hopefully sooner then later. Below there are some posts from peter and GuateGojira dated early 2013 and 2014 where they demonstrate their misunderstanding in the identification of the above individuals from Ngorongoro CA (which covers a good portion of the Serengeti Plains south-east of the Serengeti National Park) as Ngorongoro CRATER lions. peter peter GuateGojira (involved in the discussion) In 2014 after one year available to understand where is Ndutu, the Ngorongoro Crater and the Ngorongoro Conservation Area, they solved the complicated highly non-linear partial differential equation system and finally GuateGojira stated Unfortunately for the good peter, whose general knowledge I fully respect even if our view, understanding and conclusions on several animal topics is often not close, we had a debate in February this year in WF on Ngorongoro Crater lions body mass estimates in which he attempted to sell me the bad info Guate and him had assimilated, an info I was aware the right way. This was disappointing also because Peter in one of his posts showed above had stated “The report can't be used to dismiss what has been stated by many: Ngorogoro lions are large animals”. Furthermore, he completely forgot about the 235 kg Ngorongoro CA lion “Puyol” they considered as being from the Crater. So basically peter was making one mistake and, likely, one intentional omission (which however would have been another mistake). It revealed to be a bad trade from peter and a particular disappointment for me as coming from a mature, educated and knowledgeable person like him, but we settle in peace as mature men should always do if not too much peaced off. The part of peter’s post relevant to the 146 kg sub-adult male lion supposed from the Ngorongoro Crater was the following In February this year I received two separate e-mails from Old Tom and Puyol asking me to clarify once for all the issue as they had noticed on the Internet I was involved in that debate concerning Ngorongoro Crater Lion body weight estimates on WF. They were both very angry with GuateGojira and peter for their mistake (imagine a Canadian mistaken for an American and viceversa or a New Zealander mistaken for an Australian and viceversa and so on). The two boys also told me to remind GuateGojira and peter that other then not being Ngorongoro Crater born lions they never played for the Ngorongoro Crater Football Team (called by locals the Crater Giants) and are instead employed by FC Serengeti Plains Team (the Nimble Runners) and that at most, but for a much better financial contract, they may consider a switch to play for AC Woodlands Killers. I tried to cool down Old Tom and Puyol and let them understand that GuateGojira and peter are two good guys, possibly just a bit too enthusiastic more often then not when they find small lions, small bears and big tigers. I explained to the two Tanzanian Boys that I was told by Guate’s and peter’s schoolmates that unfortunately they have rarely attended geography classes at school as they preferred to flirt with girls in the school bathroom all the time (which was not a bad idea). Therefore they often get confused in geography with bad consequences as a result. Old Tom and Puyol accepted my justification as GuateGojira’s and peter’s apologies and get also relieved from not being the only species target of misinformation when I told them that Brutus, the famous brown bear from central European Russia playing for FC Moscow Rocks, was mistaken to be a player of AC Vladivostok Panzers of the Amur-Ussuri land 6000 km far away. The clarification I was urged to do following pressure from Old Tom and Puyol earlier in February was the following Which graphically means For the benefit of any reader interested to have a more comprehensive explanation of what I asserted including scientific papers, pictures and some relevant part of Young Tom’s story from www.panthera.org, below there is some relevant info. From Packer et al. (1991) From Kissui & Packer (2004) There are several other papers, even more recent ones, highlighting the above (which may change one day if some nomadic lions from the Serengeti outside of the Crater will finally be able to sire Crater females). In any case I believe this is not the major point. The major point is for lions to be born and grow in a rich prey area all-year round (herbivore biomass equal to ca. 12000 kg/km2 and rather constant under both dry and wet seasons) like in the Crater to be able to exploit their maximum genetic potential for skeletal size (a potential in some or many Serengeti lions may be even higher in theory as not affected by inbreeding depression) and then permanently live in the Crater to maintain their bulkiness which is significantly higher then Serengeti lions on average as stated by Packer and others several times in scientific papers. I believe that any possible nomadic lions entering the Crater from the Serengeti plains are expected to significantly increase body mass if weighed randomly during the year with respect if living in the plains and weighed when food is scarce as occurring during the dry season when herbivore biomass get even lower then 1000 kg/km2 (in the wet season peaks over 20000 kg/km2 in the Plains). Viceversa Crater lions forced to leave the Crater during the dry season would struggle in the Serengeti Plains and if weighed by that time they would scale significantly less then if they continued to live in the Crater (assuming they could). For lions of the Plains the only real chance to have a better life in the dry season is to try evicting pride lions of the Woodlands or live as nomads of the Woodlands as this region has a higher and more constant prey base average during the year then the Plains and does not suffer too much the dry season (year average prey density in the Woodlands is however not as high as in the Crater). The Serengeti-Mara Ecosystem Location of Ndutu and the Ngorongoro Crater in the Ngorongoro Conservation Area The Story of “Young Tom” (letter dated 6 February 2013 in http://www.panthera.org/node/3388) The following picture appears to have been taken after a few days from anaesthesia, but I suspect it may have been taken at the same time of the image shown after it (shot a few weeks later) This is a picture from a video taken several weeks after Young Tom had been darted, examined and weighed Note 1 Following an e-mail from Brutus the bear I finally clarified the misinformation concerning his Football Team (post #387 of the Thread “Siberian Tiger v Eurasian Brown Bear” (http://carnivoraforum.com/topic/9380132/26/?x=0#post8770070) Note 2 I have been informed that this coming Autumn Brutus will go to Sikhote- Alin Preserve for holidays to make peter and GuateGojira happy. Brutus invites them to join him so they can weigh him over there. He promises he will loose some more mass in the mean time to make peter’s and GuateGojira’s average weight for Amur land bruins look even smaller. WaveRiders Edited by WaveRiders_, Aug 23 2015, 09:08 AM.
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| bitisgabonica | Sep 14 2015, 03:13 AM Post #44 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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That a good joke |
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| WaveRiders_ | Sep 17 2015, 01:53 AM Post #45 |
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Autotrophic Organism
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The AfriCat Hobatere Lion Research Project from Western Etosha NP, Namibia relatively recently released a report (June update) with some interesting tables concerning morphometric measurements of lions captured and monitored between approximately mid-2014 and mid- 2015. http://africat.org/hobatere-lion-research-project-update-june-2015 One of those tables is the following. ![]() It is pretty much straightforward to understand how the head-and-body length from nose tip to tail root should be computed. Or not? Well, maybe for most, but not all as apparently GuateGojira once again shows he does not understand well what he reads more often then not. ![]() Given the evident mistake done by GuateGojira and the fact that everyone else in WF failed to notice his mistake with the present post I would like to advice any reader of this forum, assuming it would be useful as I would hope it is not, how to read that interesting table issued by Hoth (2015) of the AfriCat Hobatere Lion Research Project. The correct head-and-body length from nose tip to tail root is obviously computed adding the head length, the neck length (not reported for the largest animal but roughly estimable if one wants to do it) and the body length. I also strongly suggest that the following picture ![]() does not mean that the head, neck and body lengths have been measured along/over the side of the body as GuateGojira appears to understand (wrongly just to be consistent with his average level of understanding scientific topics) and suggest or speculate. ![]() I am certain that the tape was put on the side only for the purpose of a photograph as by gravity it would have fallen on the ground if put where the measurements were taken (along the head, neck and spine) without operators holding it. Although it is not specified (the note “along body contour” identified by * refers to the leg length only) the head, neck, body and very much likely the shoulder height as well are all certainly measured along/over the curves as most if not virtually all zoologists do while measuring big cats. As a final note I would like to say that I am highlighting mistakes and bad understanding of people who have demonstrated themselves for years to be unnecessarily very much aggressive and violent against other posters perhaps taking advantage of some better knowledge and understanding. Now is their turn to be shaked. In life I have always tent to side myself with the weakest. This is for instance what pckts had just written to asadas about GuateGojira praising Guate’s “fighting spirit” in the lion vs tiger thread. “ I love you trying to say Guate " do not have the tools to decpher material with "low sample size" Which is hysterical since he has been religiously destroying you on every debate for years, looking at the exact same info as you. The only one who fails to "Decipher material" is yourself, simple as that. “ So GuateGojira has been/is used to destroy people? Interesting. Actually once he wrote me that “he always win” wars. Well, let’s see what is going to happen as I have not yet launched my most powerful ICBMs against him and others. My advice for them is to watch their as... and find good cover in case it will be necessary for me to fire my missiles however immature the action has already resulted and may result to be again in the future. In March I preferred to leave a forum instead of doing that, much more sensible one may think and I would say he is right. But why I am doing that now as my age and education are not suited for this kind of behaviour? By far the only reason is because I came to a point to have enough of all the pollution of mistakes and bad understanding that is going on and on for years by some people who would be expected to have an education and sensible mind not to do that, particularly one of them who I rate a good and an intelligent poster, peter, and just for this reason it has been very much disappointing. Young people can only learn from hard lessons. I speak by experience of course. WaveRiders Is it possible to be so ignorant, immature and little brain that to defend himself from an evident bad understanding one makes things even worse? Hard to believe, but it is. Kamikaze GuageGojira instead of being an intelligent and wise gentleman like peter is demonstrating to be, and with who I share some of his thoughts that zoologists did sometimes not help the public to understand things properly, likes to continuously add bad understanding to mistakes in his endless list of faults that is just hurting himself more and more. For GuateGojira the base of neck (the nape as he calls it) is not the part of the neck closer to the thorax and therefore he still believes he made the right computation to account for all the contributions to have the length from nose tip to tail root ![]() The base of neck is obviously the region of the neck vertebrae closer to the thoracic vertebrae and specifically vertebrae C6 and C7, the largest cervical vertebrae http://www.innerbody.com/anatomy/skeletal/c6-6th-cervical-vertebra#full-description ![]() Trying to desperately save his honour instead of being wise and mature he even suggests he knew Ngorongoro Conservation Area is not the same thing of the Ngorongoro Crate while it is obvious that he did not know the difference. In his table he labelled those lions as Ngorongoro CA lions believing they were Crater lions. ![]() The truth is different as I already proved. If GuateGojira would like me to stop highlighting his bad understandings and mistakes he should admit them simply to let me appreciate his upcoming maturity. I hope someone over there will give him this suggestion to avoid him looking more and more pathetic, desperate and ridicoulous. WaveRiders Edited by WaveRiders_, Sep 19 2015, 03:19 AM.
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