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| Megalodon Extinction :; Would it survive today? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 8 2012, 02:33 AM (11,686 Views) | |
| theropod | Apr 29 2012, 10:32 PM Post #46 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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There are just too few large whales to feed an 80t shark. Orcas can survive because they are oppurtunistic and sperm whales because they are hunting in the deep were there is no competition. Megalodon preyed on large whales up to about the size of modern blue whales, and all the really large whales (right whales, blue whales, fin whales, grey whales, humpback whales, sperm whales) are too rare. Tis and the competition from orcas would make it impossible to survive for C. megalodon or at least impossible to maintain a population large enough for reproduction. |
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| Grey | Apr 30 2012, 01:59 AM Post #47 |
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Kleptoparasite
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Fairly well resumed, Meg cannot survive today because of why it went extinct. At least one or very few individuals could but not a population. |
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| theropod | May 2 2012, 11:29 PM Post #48 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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Meg died out because whales adapted to colder climates, where it couldn´t follow them. As most big whales still live in cold climates, meg wouldn´t even find enought to big whales to feed on if humans hadn´t nearly eradicated them. |
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| Grey | May 3 2012, 12:03 AM Post #49 |
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Kleptoparasite
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Even the original whales populations before whaling couldn't have sustained on a global Meg population. |
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| Temnospondyl | May 9 2012, 03:39 AM Post #50 |
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Stegocephalia specialist.
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It would devastate orcas, but the cold tempreature would drive it to extinction. |
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| Elosha11 | May 9 2012, 05:38 AM Post #51 |
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Herbivore
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^That's an interesting question as to whether Megalodon could prey on orcas in modern times, as a substitute for the loss of much of its whale based diet. An adult or even a juvenile orca would still make a very nice and filling meal for an adult Megalodon. And orcas are relatively widespread across the oceans. Although they often live in cooler waters, they do frequent the temperate zones Megalodon would occupy. I don't think Megalodon could survive with orcas as the staple part of its diet however. First, although I think hunger and desperation would lead Megalodon to attack and kill some orcas - maybe even a lot of them - some Megalodons would also no doubt be injured or killed by the orca pods. Orcas are so smart and also very formidable individually and as a pod. I think orcas would develop defense strategies and even more critically, just start avoiding Megalodon's habitat, since there is plenty of food for them elsewhere. Also, if there were no protected Meg nurseries, orcas could prey on juvenile Megs at times. Keep in mind that the orcas in the twilight of Megalodon's existence were only around 4 meters, and would not be nearly as threatening as modern orcas. Megalodon would no doubt prey on some orcas, but in general it would not survive for very long exclusively on this dangerous prey item. |
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| homosapiens | May 10 2012, 04:51 AM Post #52 |
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Unicellular Organism
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The whole point of its extinction is that it wouldn't survive today. |
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| Elosha11 | May 10 2012, 05:18 AM Post #53 |
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Herbivore
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^ Well not necessarily. Just because the environment has changed in ways not conducive to a species' survival at the time of its extinction does not mean that it couldn't have survived at a later period of time, when conditions of the environment changed again in a way more favorable for said species. |
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| Cat | May 10 2012, 06:14 AM Post #54 |
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Omnivore
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I doubt a Orca pod could kill an adult Megalodon, unless it was not a very large pod. Orca pods seem to need a long time even to overpower defenceless whales, and the Meg wasn't only insanely armed, it probbaly also had also a very thick and hard skin. But certainly Orcas could have preyed on youngs and could have outcompeted the giant shark as hunters. An Orca pod would have been more efficient at hunting whales, especially the more recent fast species, and it would also have had more flexibility in prey choice. |
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| Taipan | Aug 8 2013, 06:38 PM Post #55 |
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Some more theories, mirroring the above: Mysterious Disappearance For reasons that are still unclear, megalodon went extinct about 2 million years ago, during the middle Miocene era. One hypothesis, said Klimley, is that megalodon was unable to adapt to changing ocean conditions. Megalodon thrived during a time when the Earth's oceans were generally much warmer, and conditions were much more uniform. But throughout the Miocene, the Isthmus of Panama started forming, culminating with the closure of the Central American Seaway around 3 million years ago. This shut off any exchange between the Atlantic and Pacific oceans, and one consequence of this was that regions of Earth's seas became cooler. Unlike its cousin the great white, megalodon may have been unable to evolve endothermy, or the ability to maintain an elevated body temperature, scientists say. "White sharks are able to occupy cooler waters right now from off the coast of central California to Oregon," Klimley explained. "These cooler waters extended northward, and [seals and dolphins] and whales also moved farther north in latitude, but megalodon was not able to do that." Another factor in megalodon's decline may have been the rise of competitors such as killer whales. "Being social hunters, it has been suggested that they out-competed megalodon's hypothesized solitary hunting style," Catalina Pimiento, a shark researcher studying megalodon at the University of Florida, explained in a recent blog post. Pimiento argues that studying extinct sharks like megalodon can have implications that are relevant to today's world. "Great sharks today, like Megalodon in the past, are apex predators impacting communities via top down control," Pimiento wrote. "As we change the oceans, we also trigger cascading effects on entire ecosystems. Understanding the past—how this shark interacted in its community—can aid in making policy for marine systems." Source : The Real Megalodon: Prehistoric Shark Behind Doc Uproar |
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| theropod | Aug 8 2013, 08:13 PM Post #56 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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I think I change my opinion, a small population of megalodons might be possible (as long as humans don't interfere) in warm regions. While most big whales tend to migrate to colder waters, not all do, and there is no need for megalodon to routinely prey on a blue whales. The bryde's whale might be a relatively stable food source, along with some large odontocetes of cosmopolitan distribution. And it could still prey on migrating whales or ones that temporarily spend their time in warm zones, whaling ships could do too. The conditions are unfavourable for a big, global population if a big part of whale biomass is "locked away" in cold waters, and other predators apparently function more efficiently (alltogether the initial reasons for its extinction, but the climate back then was much more extreme), but at least for some time a few megalodons should be able to survive if transferred to this time. Also, it gets increasingly easier to follow the whales due to global warming. However this will also cause problems to plankton, krill and thus the nutritional value and populations of baleen whales, so it is only of short-term use for the shark before the whales will greatly decrease in number or go extinct. Edited by theropod, Aug 8 2013, 08:14 PM.
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| Taipan | Oct 23 2014, 05:15 PM Post #57 |
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Solved: When Earth's Largest Shark Disappeared by Kelly Dickerson, Staff Writer | October 22, 2014 02:12pm ET Giant, 60-foot-long (18 meters) Megalodon sharks used to lurk in the Earth's oceans, but while researchers are still unsure why these behemoths of the deep went extinct, scientists now have a better estimate for when it happened. In a new study, researchers analyzed dozens of Megalodon (Carcharocles megalodon) fossils, and now estimate that the ancient shark, the largest to ever live, likely went extinct about 2.6 million years ago. This date falls on the border between the Pliocene and Pleistocene Epochs, right when baleen whales began growing to their modern-day gigantic sizes. The timing of the Megalodon's extinction makes sense, since these ancient sharks fed on marine mammals, including whales and dolphins, the researchers write in the paper. Without the presence of a predator, the baleen whale could flourish. Megalodon's disappearance It's difficult to pinpoint the exact date the Megalodon went extinct, because its fossil record is incomplete, the researchers said. Scientists have developed ways to determine the last appearance date of an animal, based on the most recent fossils it left behind. Most Megalodon fossils date back to the middle Miocene Epoch (15.9 million to 11.6 million years ago) and the Pliocene Epoch (5.3 million to 2.6 million years ago). The researchers identified 42 of the most recent fossils after sorting through the Paleobiology Database – a large online compilation of fossil data. The team used the Optimal Linear Estimation (OLE) technique to estimate when the Megalodon died out. But applying this technique to the fossil record can be tricky, the researchers said. Each of the 42 fossils is entered into the database with an upper and lower date estimate for when it appeared. The researchers ran 10,000 simulations, and each simulation selected a date for each fossil somewhere between the upper and lower boundary. The technique examines the spacing between the fossil dates, said Chris Clements, a research assistant at the University of Zurich, who worked on the study. "Based on the distribution of those gaps and how those gaps change, it will then infer the point in time where that species can be considered to be extinct," Clements told Live Science. The technique doesn't pinpoint the exact date when a species went extinct, but instead gives the date by which, statistically, it can be assumed that a species has gone extinct, Clements said. "We get 10,000 estimates for the time the species has gone extinct by, and then we look at the distribution of those estimates through time," Clements said. The idea is to identify the point where most of the estimates cluster. The results for the Megalodon fossils placed that point for this species at 2.6 million years ago. Megalodon is definitely extinct Six of the 10,000 simulations place the giant shark's extinction beyond the present day, suggesting the species could still be alive. However, since 99.9 percent of the simulations suggest the species is long gone, the researchers wrote in the new study that they reject "the popular claims of present-day survival of C. megalodon." Those six estimates past the present day come from the uncertainty in the fossil record dates, Clements said. Among the 10,000 simulations, there are a few that end up with such widely spread fossil dates that the estimated time of extinction is projected to be close to or past the present day. "It definitely doesn't mean that the species is still alive," Clements said. The Discovery Channel's wildly popular Shark Week programming perpetuated the idea that the Megalodon could still exist. The series kicked off last year with a documentary-style special called "Megalodon: The Monster Shark That Lives," which the network followed up this year with a feature called "Megalodon: The New Evidence." However, marine scientists agree that the shark is long gone. After this year's Shark Week, David Shiffman, a graduate student at the University of Miami who has become a social media authority on sharks, wrote in a Slate.com blog post that "there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that these sharks are extinct and have been for millions of years. If a 50-foot-long predator that fed on surface animals and lived in coastal environments were still around, someone would have found evidence of this by now." The new findings are published online today (Oct. 22) in the journal PLOS ONE. http://www.livescience.com/48405-megalodon-shark-extinction-date.html When Did Carcharocles megalodon Become Extinct? A New Analysis of the Fossil Record Catalina Pimiento, Christopher F. Clements Published: October 22, 2014DOI: 10.1371/journal.pone.0111086 Abstract Carcharocles megalodon (“Megalodon”) is the largest shark that ever lived. Based on its distribution, dental morphology, and associated fauna, it has been suggested that this species was a cosmopolitan apex predator that fed on marine mammals from the middle Miocene to the Pliocene (15.9–2.6 Ma). Prevailing theory suggests that the extinction of apex predators affects ecosystem dynamics. Accordingly, knowing the time of extinction of C. megalodon is a fundamental step towards understanding the effects of such an event in ancient communities. However, the time of extinction of this important species has never been quantitatively assessed. Here, we synthesize the most recent records of C. megalodon from the literature and scientific collections and infer the date of its extinction by making a novel use of the Optimal Linear Estimation (OLE) model. Our results suggest that C. megalodon went extinct around 2.6 Ma. Furthermore, when contrasting our results with known ecological and macroevolutionary trends in marine mammals, it became evident that the modern composition and function of modern gigantic filter-feeding whales was established after the extinction of C. megalodon. Consequently, the study of the time of extinction of C. megalodon provides the basis to improve our understanding of the responses of marine species to the removal of apex predators, presenting a deep-time perspective for the conservation of modern ecosystems. http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0111086
If you are still of that view, what whales were they? Fossils of mysticetes are frequently found along with C. megalodon teeth. This has led to the hypothesis that they interacted in ancient marine communities [e.g. 5]. Whether or not C. megalodon preyed upon mysticetes needs further investigation. However, based on the inferred time of extinction of C. megalodon and the known ecological and macroevolutionary trends of cetaceans, we propose that the modern composition and function of gigantic filter-feeding whales established after the extinction of C. megalodon. http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0111086 |
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| Orca | Oct 25 2014, 06:22 AM Post #58 |
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Autotrophic Organism
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I think a better question might be the one that was brought up, if Meg never died off would it have affected man's journey into the deep ocean. And if so, by how much? 1) Would we have settled Islands like Hawaii, New Zealand, Australasia and Indonesia as fast as we did 2) Would Europeans been as willing to travel across the oceans? 3) If it continued to survive and was not killed off by man would it have posed a significant danger to whalers in the prime age of whale hunting? I personally don't think the Meg would have had an effect on 1 and 2, however number 3 I think it would have and would have been killed off by man then. This is assuming of course that it could have survived naturally with the reduction of it's prey and the colder waters |
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| Taipan | Apr 1 2016, 02:14 PM Post #59 |
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More on the possible role of competition with large predatory whales and the great white shark had on causing Megalodon's extinction. Prey scarcity and competition led to extinction of ancient monster shark Date: March 31, 2016 Source: University of Zurich Summary: It lived millions of years ago and was three times as large as the great white shark: the megalodon. So far its extinction has been explained with the onset of an ice age. However, researchers have now come to the conclusion that responsibility for the decline of the monster shark lays not with the climate, but with other species. ![]() The jaw of a megalodon could reach up to 3 meters. Credit: Copyright Jeff Gage / Florida Museum of Natural History Is there anyone out there who doesn't know Jaws, the film about the great white shark and the devastation it wreaked? But there have been even bigger and more dangerous sharks in the past: The largest shark in the history of the planet, Carcharocles megalodon, lived between 23 million and 2.6 million years ago, reaching body lengths of up to 18 meters and probably feeding on marine mammals. Then it became extinct. In the past, climate changes have generally been blamed for its disappearance. Now, for the first time, researchers from the University of Zurich have examined the geographical distribution of the megalodon over time and arrived at the following conclusion: The giant shark became extinct because the diversity of its prey decreased and new predators appeared as competitors. 200 records from all over the globe The team surrounding Catalina Pimiento from the Paleontological Institute and Museum of the University of Zurich assessed roughly 200 megalodon records from museum collections and databases, ranging in age for more than 20 million years. Based on these data, the scientists reconstructed the range and the abundance of this prehistoric animal: In the early Miocene, up to approximately 16 million years ago, they were mainly found in the Northern Hemisphere in the warm waters off the coast of America, around Europe and in the Indian Ocean, but they later penetrated further into the Asian, Australian and South American coasts. Abundance of the species peaked in the middle Miocene, while the largest geographical coverage did not take place until the late Miocene. The continuous decline followed around 5 million years ago with the gradual emergence of a glacial period during the Pliocene. Food resources disappear "We were not able to ascertain any direct link between the extinction of C. megalodon and the global fluctuations in temperatures during this time. Changing climatic conditions do not appear to have had any influence on the population density and range of the giant sharks," explains Pimiento. Their numbers did not decline in colder periods, nor did they increase significantly in rising water temperatures. Instead, the evolutionary narrative of other species seems to have had an effect on the development of the monster sharks. When Megalodon range shrank, numerous smaller marine mammal species disappeared. The second factor was the appearance of new predators such as the ancestors of the killer whale and the great white shark. The results suggest that these species could have competed for the increasingly scarce food sources. Story Source: University of Zurich. "Prey scarcity and competition led to extinction of ancient monster shark." ScienceDaily. www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/03/160331105841.htm (accessed April 1, 2016). Journal Reference: Catalina Pimiento, Bruce J. MacFadden, Christopher Clements, Sara Varela, Carlos Jaramillo, Jorge Velez-Juarbe and Brian Silliman. Geographical distributional patterns of Carcharocles megalodon over time reveal clues about extinction mechanisms. Journal of Biogeography, March 30, 2016 DOI: 10.1111/jbi.12754 Abstract Aim Given its catastrophic consequences, the extinction of apex predators has long been of interest to modern ecology. Despite major declines, no present-day species of marine apex predator has yet become extinct. Because of their vulnerability, understanding the mechanisms leading to their extinction in the past could provide insight into the natural factors that interact with human threats to drive their loss. We studied the geographical distribution patterns of the extinct macro-predatory shark Carcharocles megalodon in order to elucidate its pathway to extinction. Location World-wide from the Miocene to the Pliocene (c. 23–2.6 Ma). Methods A meta-analysis of C. megalodon occurrence records was performed using the Paleobiology Database as a platform. The data were binned into geological time slices, and the circular home range around each data point was mapped in reconstructions made in GPlates. We then quantitatively assessed the species' geographical range and global abundance over time, and the relationship between distribution and climate. Results The pathway to extinction of C. megalodon probably started in the late Miocene with a decrease in its global abundance. This decrease was then followed by a decline in its geographical range during the Pliocene. Although the extinction of C. megalodon has been attributed to climate change, we found no evidence of direct effects of global temperature. Instead, we found that the collapse in geographical distribution coincided mainly with a drop in the diversity of filter-feeding whales and the appearance of new competitors (large predatory whales and the great white shark). Main conclusions This research represents the first study of the distributional trends of an extinct, cosmopolitan apex predator in deep-time. Our results suggest that biotic factors, and not direct temperature limitations, were probably the primary drivers of the extinction of the largest marine apex predators that ever lived. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jbi.12754/abstract;jsessionid=BCDCC8454CEF63F564FC8F01ACF6E11D.f02t04 Edited by Taipan, Apr 1 2016, 02:20 PM.
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| Taipan | Jan 14 2017, 01:59 PM Post #60 |
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Megalodon Met Its Demise When Its Prey Went Extinct Fossilized bones riddled with enormous shark bite marks reveal the mega shark's main prey. BY JEN VIEGAS ANIMALS Jan 13, 2017 08:21 AM ET ![]() Megalodon and potential prey. Credit: Alberto Gennari Megalodon, the largest known shark that ever lived, had a taste for small whales and it went extinct when populations of their favorite prey collapsed as the Pliocene Epoch (5.3–2.58 million years ago) drew to a close, new evidence indicates. The evidence—reported in the journal Palaeogeography, Palaeoclimatology, Palaeoecology—consists of fossilized bones from animals that megalodon devoured. Riddled with the enormous shark's bite marks, the fossils are the first to show exactly what species the megalodon consumed in its diet. All of the fossils were unearthed at a site called Aguada de Lomas in southern Peru. Lead author Alberto Collareta of the University of Pisa and his team analyzed the fossils and determined that megalodon, which could grow to over 53 feet long, ate the now-extinct baleen whale Piscobalaena nana and the early seal Piscophoca pacifica. Both animals were still impressive in size, at just under 16.5 feet long, but were presumably easy, nutritious pickings for megalodon. "What else would you eat but a large marine mammal?" Christina Slager, director of animal care and exhibits for San Francisco's Aquarium of the Bay, told Seeker when told of the new findings. She said that great white sharks today like to eat seals and sea lions, but will usually only scavenge on whales. Except for the pygmy right whale, all other baleen (filter-feeding) whales today greatly surpass even the biggest great white sharks in size. Kenshu Shimada, a professor of paleobiology at DePaul University, explained to Seeker that whales have likely become bigger than sharks "due to the evolution of their migration behavior where large body sizes must have helped them to travel long distances and exploit food sources not only along the coasts but also in the middle of the ocean." He added, "Whether megalodon migrated long distances can only be speculated at the present time." Uncertainty also exists concerning how megalodon interacted with its whale prey. Collareta and his colleagues admit that "it is virtually impossible to discriminate between active predation and scavenging when dealing with fossil specimens," yet they believe it is possible megalodon actively hunted small-sized whales. In fact, one of the fossils is a whale skull that the shark bit directly into, going right after the head meat. This and the other bite marks unmistakably were made by megalodon, according to the researchers. One tooth mark alone, they say, measured over 2 inches long. Such an enormous predator would seem to be invincible, but megalodon was on Earth only from about 23 to 2.58 million years ago. Slager said that the traditional explanation for the giant shark's disappearance has been climate change. "Based on its remains, megalodon preferred warmer waters," she said. "The Ice Age began when this species went extinct, but other factors in addition to climate change could explain why the shark died out." Collareta and his team note that various lineages of small baleen whales experienced population crashes just before megalodon's disappearance. Slager agreed that this is likely not just a coincidence, and that lack of food could have contributed to the iconic shark species' demise. Shimada explained, "Most sharks are opportunistic generalists capable of feeding on variety of organisms, but some forms with specialized diets, such as plankton, may be particularly prone to extinction if a major shift in global oceanic conditions takes place." He added that this was the probable fate of a group of plankton-eating bony fishes, called suspension-feeding pachycormids, which bit the dust at the end of the Dinosaur Era about 65 million years ago, when global populations of plankton collapsed. Shimada said the jury is still out, however, on what precise factors did in megalodon. The disappearance of both the early small baleen whales and megalodon could reveal "a process of co-extinction of prey and predator," Collareta and his team believe. Celebrities often die in threes, but for animals, species often go extinct in twos. When a flightless bird called the moa died out, for example, the Haast's eagle that preferentially fed on the bird went extinct, too. Slager says that giant pandas could go the way of megalodon if their favorite food, bamboo, somehow went extinct, since the rare bears rely on it so much. http://www.livescience.com/57499-why-megalodon-shark-went-extinct.html Journal Reference: Alberto Collaretaa, Olivier Lambert, Walter Landini, Claudio Di Celma, Elisa Malinverno, Rafael Varas-Malca, Mario Urbina, Giovanni Bianucci Did the giant extinct shark Carcharocles megalodon target small prey? Bite marks on marine mammal remains from the late Miocene of Peru Palaeogeography, Palaeoclimatology, Palaeoecology Volume 469, 1 March 2017, Pages 84–91 http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.palaeo.2017.01.001 Highlights • We report on shark bite marks affecting late Miocene marine mammal bones of Peru. • The bite marks are referred to the extinct giant shark species Carcharocles megalodon. • The bitten items include small mysticetes (e.g., Piscobalaena nana) and pinnipeds. • The trophic spectrum of C. megalodon could have been focused on relatively small prey. • We support a new ecological hypothesis about the extinction of C. megalodon. Abstract We report on bite marks incising fossil mammal bones collected from upper Miocene deposits of the Pisco Formation exposed at Aguada de Lomas (southern Peru) and attributed to the giant megatooth shark Carcharocles megalodon. The bitten material includes skull remains referred to small-sized baleen whales as well as fragmentary cetacean and pinniped postcrania. These occurrences, the first in their kind from the Southern Hemisphere, significantly expand the still scarce record of bite marks for C. megalodon; moreover, for the first time a prey (or scavenging item) of C. megalodon is identified at the species level (as Piscobalaena nana, a diminutive member of the extinct mysticete family Cetotheriidae). Due to the fragmentary nature of the studied material, the exact origin of the detected marks (i.e., by scavenging or by active predation) cannot be ascertained. Nevertheless, relying on actualistic observations and size-based considerations, we propose that diminutive mysticetes (e.g., cetotheriids) were some of the target prey of adult C. megalodon, at least along the coast of present-day Peru. C. megalodon is thus here interpreted as an apex predator whose trophic spectrum was focused on relatively small-sized prey. Lastly, we propose a link between the recent collapse of various lineages of diminutive mysticetes (observed around 3 Ma) and the extinction of C. megalodon (occurring around the end of the Pliocene). http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0031018216305417 Edited by Taipan, Jan 14 2017, 02:01 PM.
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Geographical_distribution_patterns_of_Carcharocles_megalodon_over_time_reveal_clues_about_extinction_mechanisms.pdf (4.48 MB)

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