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Wild Felids vs. Domestic Dogs; Compendium
Topic Started: Jan 10 2012, 05:32 AM (9,945 Views)
Canidae
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Omnivore
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"A North County homeowner said a mountain lion is to blame for a vicious attack on two family pets.

Nancy Bailey's German shepherds, Hanz and Franz, got away with a broken tail and dozens of stitches, but the cuts run much deeper for the family
.

"I could have found pieces of my dogs. I could have found pieces of my children," said Bailey, a Rancho Santa Fe resident.

Bailey told 10News her two dogs were attacked by a mountain lion in the backyard of her home on Las Colinas two weeks ago around 8 a.m.

"One looks like it was being chased and it was just a big claw mark," she said.

10News contacted the Department of Fish and Game and learned there are similar mountain lion attacks on pets or sightings in the county every week.

Fish and Game officials said the attacks or sightings usually happen in areas like Bailey's home with lots of hills and nature around, and if there's a sighting it's usually the only one around for miles.

Fish and Game officials said the mountain lions are very territorial. There is one female mountain lion per every 30 to 40 miles and one male per 100 miles.

"It's very hard to say that it lives in this canyon or lives around here even," said Bailey.

Regardless, knowing one has been on her property puts Bailey on edge.

"I was very upset about my dogs, but then the overall safety of my home; my kids go out in the backyard all the time," said Bailey.

The Department of Fish and Game said if you think your home is at risk, keep your pets inside at night, dawn and dusk, because that's when mountain lions are most active.

Also, never leave any food outside, Fish and Game officials said."
From here : http://www.10news.com/news/23467273/detail.html




"A mountain lion tore through a flock of emus at a ranch near the Santan Mountains south of Queen Creek, killing 20 of the 6-foot birds and leaving neighbors concerned about the safety of their children.

Joe Carreiro, owner of the massacred emus, said he spotted the lion walking away from one of the carcasses at about 6:30 a.m. Wednesday and then an hour later as it stalked his neighbor's horse. At that point, Carreiro said his dog, a 120-pound bull mastiff, crawled under a fence and barreled into the mountain lion, starting a fight that left the dog with scratches across its neck and arms but forcing the heavier cat to retreat.

"If it wasn't for my bull mastiff here . . . her horse would be history," Carreiro said. "I guarantee that. It was going to take her horse down for sure."
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But none of Carreiro's emus, which he kept in pens close to his house, survived.

"Emus can kill a coyote, but they don't stand a chance to a mountain lion," he said of the flightless birds, which are related to ostriches but not as large.

On Wednesday Carreiro contacted the Arizona Game and Fish Department, which confirmed that the carnage was the work of a mountain lion, most likely a male that would typically weigh about 145 pounds, said Randy Babb, a biologist with the department.

The department is monitoring the situation and gathering information to ensure the mountain lion does not pose a threat to humans, Babb said.

"If it shows any interest in people, then we modify our approach," he said.

Babb said his agency brought the mountain lion attack to the attention of the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Wildlife Services, which is prepared to track down and kill the mountain lion if needed.

Babb said the attack on Carreiro's emus was typical of mountain lions, which often kill every animal trapped within a pen until there's nothing left moving to attract their attention.

"Think of it as a cat in a room of mice," Babb said.

For Carreiro, 36, that meant the loss of the pets he said he bathed and hand fed, plus the revenue he could generate from breeding them.

"You could walk up and pet them on their heads. They all had their own little hairdos," he said. "I could tell them apart by their eyes."

He estimated that the birds, for which he has no insurance, were worth at least $1,000 each, plus the value of the eggs they laid. They weigh 160 to 200 pounds, he said, and have three large claws on the end of their feet.

Carreiro lives at West Ivar Road and North Bryce Trail, a dirt road in a neighborhood just across the foothills of the Santan Mountains from San Tan Heights, a new residential development with hundreds of houses just off Hunt Highway.

There are plenty of pets and small children in the horse properties and large lots that surround Carreiro. He has two children of his own, ages 6 and 7, whom he was walking down the street to a school bus stop Wednesday when he first spotted the mountain lion.

Anita Carlin, who lives across the street, said she "was very startled" when an official from the Game and Fish Department informed her Thursday morning of the attack.

"I didn't know this was lion country," said Carlin, 30.

She said she plans to keep her two children, ages 2 and 4, inside or closely watch them playing outside.

Hilary Lawhead, who lives a few blocks away, said she was "very shocked" to learn about the mountain lion, particularly because her husband and children, ages 7 and 10, like to ride bikes and hike in the desert and foothills near their house.

"They won't be going up there anytime soon," said Lawhead, 29.

Babb said encounters with mountain lions seem to be occurring more frequently in Arizona as development meets desert.

He said there were two reports of mountain lion sightings last year from people hiking or biking in the Santan Mountains.

About four years ago, there was a reported sighting just east of Carreiro's neighborhood, but the cat's presence could not be confirmed, Babb said.

He added that there have been no human deaths from a mountain lion recorded in Arizona and only a handful of attacks.

Babb said door hangers warning people about the mountain lion's presence were distributed to residences near Carreiro's property, but some houses, including Lawhead's, did not receive one. Her neighbors across the street, whose houses border the foothills, did receive the door hangers.

"They need to be aware, at least until this thing's caught, that there's a lion in the area and he's hungry," Carreiro said."
From here : http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/1118emumassacre.html



Leopards

"Even dogs specifically bred for guarding livestock can be effective against Leopards. Large breeds such as the Anatolian Shepard or Akbash are not entiely invulnerable to Leopards, but they can deter potential offenders, especially young adults. In Namibia, an Anatolian Shepard recentley killed a Leopard in defense of it's flock."
From here : http://www.biolsci.monash.edu.au/research/leopards/docs/leopardvision.pdf



"Fourteenth set of placements (May 2009):
We placed five puppies in the Vostershoop district in the Northwest province of South Africa.
...
Helen was just settling into the new routine with her herd of sheep as they moved out to graze. She was
well bonded and an attentive guardian, with her owners being very proud of her. She was hard working
but one day after moving out with the herd she did not return. In this time a leopard was very active on
the farm killing five calves and four sheep in a month. The owners searched intensively for her but
could not find her. The evidence supports the theory of her being killed by the leopard."
From here : http://www.cheetah.co.za/pdf/dog_report_dec2009.pdf


"Other anecdotal accounts were reported of
LGDs protecting their flocks from jackals, cheetahs, baboons and caracals. One
LGD killed a leopard in defence of its flock.
Cases of LGDs killing predators
usually occurred near the corral after the dogs’ initial warnings had not been
heeded; a high incidence of rabies was found in jackals killed by LGDs (Marker
2000c)."
From here : http://www.canids.org/occasionalpapers/livestockguardingdog.pdf


"Introduced by conservation groups in Namibia in the 1990s, the dogs proved successful in scaring away cheetahs without killing them. Now they are distributed free of charge to farmers in South Africa by charities such as Cheetah Outreach. They reduce livestock losses by 95 to 100 per cent, according to Cheetah Outreach.
The group tells the story of Crikey, an Anatolian shepherd that was attacked by a leopard at the age of seven months. He suffered serious wounds, but none of his herd was lost. He was taken into the farm house to recover, but escaped on the first night to walk 14 kilometres back to his herd."

...

"He is riding his luck and has successfully fended off four Leopard attacks on his herd. In his last attack he was seriously injured, but after immediate treatment he survived and is back with his herd and working hard as ever. What a dog!"
- http://www.cheetah.co.za/pdf/dog_report_june2009.pdf




In general appearance (as already mentioned when speaking of the panther) the Indian leopard so much resembles the panther that they are often confounded, and to the present day classed by some as one and the same animal. [NB: Panthers are just the black color phase of leopard]. In the Himalayas the leopard is very common, and a perfect pest, continually carrying off dogs close to the outskirts of our hill stations. A dog that is in the habit of leaving his master and wandering from the foot path, when travelling in the hills, is almost certain, sooner or later, to be carried off. I have known of many fine sporting dogs taken when shooting pheasants and chikor [chukar].

Leopards are in the habit of watching foot-paths, from some hiding place above, whence they can view everything that passes. As soon as they perceive a dog or goat loitering behind or astray, they steal rapidly and silently down, and before poor ‘ doggy ‘ can join his master, or an unfortunate goat his comrades, he is seized by the throat and swept off the path without having time to utter a cry or offer the slightest resistance. A good stout dog is almost a match for a leopard, if brought face to face with him on open ground, but the cunning cruel cat creeps up and buries his fangs into the neck of his prey when he least expects him, and once in the fatal grip, a dog or any other creature hardly ever escapes. I remember, however, a plucky little terrier belonging to Colonel D—s of the 37th, making his escape from the clutches of a leopard, and returning to his master with a wound in his throat.

Two moderate-sized setters, the property of a gentleman at Mussoorie, turned on a leopard which attacked one of them, and speedily got the better of their assailant. They so worried the beast that it was unable to make its escape, and was easily dispatched.

It is not uncommon for the Thibet sheep dogs [Tibetan mastiffs]—large powerful animals (something like the Newfoundland breed with heavy ‘jowls ‘) and specially retained to guard flocks and herds—to be carried off by leopards; sometimes these dogs escape through wearing broad spiked iron collars. I remember seeing a collar deeply indented by the teeth of a leopard; the wearer had escaped with his life after being dragged some distance, but was grievously wounded.


Leopards are seldom seen in the daytime. I have only on three occasions seen them in the Himalayas, although I have travelled and wandered a great deal in our hill ranges; yet they are common enough.

The first thing that takes your eye in the early morning as you leave your tent, is the scratch on the turf from the foot of a leopard; if you examine the outskirts of your tent, you will likely enough find his ‘pug,’ where he has been sniffing under the canvas for ‘Dash’ or ‘Juno;’ and the sap yet running from a neighbouring tree shows that he has only an hour or two before been stretching his claws on the bark. I had a setter whose mother had been taken by a leopard, and who himself had had more than one narrow escape. This dog always slept on my bed, and more than once has awakened me on a dark night by his growling and trembling all over, and nestling closer to me, evidently from fear of some brute close at hand, probably a leopard. The first expedition I ever made to the hills I lost a pet dog named ‘Snip,’ carried off by a leopard; he was by no means a well-bred dog, rather the contrary; a thick-built brown terrier, rather bandy-legged, curly-tailed, with a pair of prick-up ears, and brown intelligent eyes. I bought him from a soldier in the barracks at Allahabad when a pup, for one rupee, and though not a valuable dog, he was a prime favourite of mine. For several months this poor dog was my only companion; we always shared our meals together, and sometimes both Snip and I had to put up with very ‘short commons,’ and retire to rest after only a scanty meal. One windy wet night, having collected sundry scraps, and filled a plate principally with rice for my dog, I placed the dish at the entrance of the tent, and soon Snip was in the full enjoyment of his meal. Having tied a lantern on to the tent pole and lit a cigar, I took up a book and lay down on my bed. In another minute I was startled by the sharp cry of my poor dog, and jumping up, I rushed out of the tent. I could see a dark object making off: catching up a lighted piece of wood from a fire burning outside, I hurled it at the animal; but although the sparks from the burning wood striking the ground almost between the creature’s feet showed it to be, as I expected, a leopard, the animal would not drop his prey. I ran after it shouting, but the brute disappeared in the darkness down the face of a steep decline. I went back, got my gun, a lantern, and two men with torches. We searched everywhere, called the dog by his name and whistled, but in vain, and in half an hour we returned wet through from a fruitless quest (pg. 68-70)."
From : The Large and Small Game of Bengal and the North-Western Provinces of India by John Henry Baldwin; 1876.



Eurasian Lynx

"Attacks distribution between months and breeds of dogs. Most lynx attacks on the dog take place during autumn and winter (Figure 27). this is explained that most dogs that are attacked are hunting dogs that are attacked while hunting. This ockå reflected in the breeds of dogs invested (Table 16). Of 51 lynx attacked dogs there were 11 hounds, 11 still dogs and 5 elkhound. Other affected dogs distributed fairly evenly over the other common dog breeds. At least one opportunity seems a lynx have seen the dog (a fine-tip puppy) as a prey item. Significantly more common situations of lynx attacks is that the dog is hunting lynx, and catches up to it, or that the dog is interested in the lynx kills and lynx is nearby."
From a post originally posted by Jerven27 on another thread, then poorly translated from Swedish by me.



"The furious cat attacked the couple's German shepherd .
Jan-Erik Vikberg German shepherd was attacked by a lynx. Then he slew the fierce animal with a stone. -I thought it would attack me, says Jan-Erik Vikberg. It was at one o'clock yesterday as Jan-Erik Vikberg, 63, his wife Kristina Vikberg and the couple's two dogs were out for a walk. Did not release the grip.

Just 200 meters from the house in Vasselhyttan, two mil north of Lindesberg, was attacked suddenly one Alsatian of a lynx. -The dog ended up directly at a disadvantage, lynx stuck firmly, says Jan-Erik Vikberg. The couple Vikberg rushed to the rescue and tried to release lynx from the dog by kicking at it - but the cat did not release its grip on the dog. "Knocked on the head" -Then I put my foot on the neck of the lynx while my wife tried to pry open his mouth about it. But when the lynx also tore her I took hold of a rock and hit his head on the lynx. I got beat quite a few times before it died, says Jan-Erik Vikberg. -I am not a predator hater but all I could think of was to save the dog. And the lynx was completely insane. We did not know if it would give up on us with. Were injured in the fight.
The couple alerted police in Örebro who came to the scene. Kristina Vikberg then had to go to hospitals to review the rivskador she received during the battle with lynx. The injured German Shepherd called yesterday no veterinary assistance, but Jan-Erik Vikberg are worried. -I think she is shocked. She would not even eat ham. Is she not better tomorrow we will go to the vet, he says.

Roughly hunting violations - A prosecutor will now look at the matter, which are classified as serious hunting violations. -Would I be prosecuted, it's not all over the world. But how stupid's not society that you can not protect his animals and his family from an insane predators, says Jan-Erik Vikberg."
From here, poorly translated by me : http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article254704.ab


Posted Image
From Mammals of the Soviet Union Volume.2 Pt.2


Cheetah
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From Mammals of the Soviet Union Volume.2 Pt.2

Steppe Cat
Posted Image
From Mammals of the Soviet Union Volume.2 Pt.2







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tigerburningbright
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A mountain Lion in Arizona typically weighs 145lbs??? I didn't think they got that big unless it was in Canada/a Northern US State.....I thought the ones in warmer climates were smaller than that?
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ImperialDino
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tigerburningbright
Dec 30 2012, 08:46 AM
A mountain Lion in Arizona typically weighs 145lbs??? I didn't think they got that big unless it was in Canada/a Northern US State.....I thought the ones in warmer climates were smaller than that?
The biggest ever record Cougar was found in Arizona at 276 pounds, on average though Cougars are bigger in Canada and Northern US.

Look at the head size of this Arizona Cougar, you never see a Cougar's head this big.
Posted Image

Could Arizona cougars really be bigger then Canadian/Northern US cougars, but weighing smaller because of less bodyfat living in a warmer climate? I don't know
Edited by ImperialDino, Dec 31 2012, 01:01 PM.
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Gato Gordo
Heterotrophic Organism
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This is an account of a cougar killing an Anatolian shepherd. The cougar killed the dog by biting through the back of the head. The dog's owner and a conservation officer speculated that it could have been an ambush but a fight could not be ruled out. It was posted in the old forum about 4 years ago. It appeared in the following link (which is no longer active):

http://www.bclocalnews.com/bc_north/lakesdistrictnews/news/14622932.htm

Cougar kills livestock and guard dog

Sometime after midnight last Thursday, Jake Dyck, alerted by the barking of his house dogs at his Bulkley Lake home west of Rose Lake, went outside and shone a spotlight around the yard to make sure the sheep were okay. Not spotting anything amiss, Dyck retired for the evening. In the morning he discovered his Anatolian Shepherd guard dog lying dead under the sheep shelter, with bite wounds to the back of the head; and one of his sheep had been killed and dragged off by a cougar.

“It was deep snow, you could easily see the trail where he had dragged it,” said Dyck. “The cat had hidden the sheep under the thick branches of a small spruce tree.”

Dyck said the guard dog he lost was an Anatolian Shepherd, a dog specially bred for the job.

The Anatolian Shepherd is one of the ‘giant’ breed of dogs and was developed specifically for guarding flocks. The dogs have been used for thousands of years by Nomads of the Anatolia plateau, a high steppe-like grassland in central Turkey, to guard flocks of livestock from wolves, jackals, bears, and even cheetahs. The breed was developed to be independent and forceful, responsible on its own for guarding it’s masters flocks. Bred for courage, strength, speed, agility and endurance the 100-150 pound male dogs make ideal guards,while the females are kept for breeding.

It took a powerful predator to bring down a dog of this size and ability.
“The cougar bit him in the back of the head and its teeth went right through the skull and into the brain,” said Dyck.
“That’s some power.” This was not the first incident in which the Dycks have lost livestock to wild predators.

“Two years ago we had a grizzly that came in and killed a bunch of sheep,” he said. “I shot it from the doorstep. I think it took forty-some sheep that year.” Dyck said they lost another large bunch of sheep last year, on pasture in Palling, that just vanished without a trace.
“We couldn’t find hide nor hair of them,” said Dyck, “we never did find out what got them.”
Upon discovery of the slain dog and the dead sheep Dyck called Jeff Palm, a conservation officer in Burns Lake.
“I attended the site and inspected the carcasses, and it was apparent from the wound marks that it was a cougar that had done it,” said Palm. “ I would say it was an adult cat just by the ability and the power it had to kill the animals and the penetration of each side of the dog’s skull with the large canine teeth and stuff.”


There were a lot of tracks around the site, but a fresh skiff of snow made identification difficult. “By the wound patterns, I’m confident it was a cougar,” Palm said. He added it is typical for a cat to feed on the organs high in the body cavity as in this case where it had broken through the sheep’s ribs to eat the heart; whereas wolves and coyotes will generally feed from the tail end up, starting at the lower belly.
Asked to speculate on the sequence of events at the scene; if he thought the dog could have been caught unawares from behind, Palm replied that it was difficult to say. “I’m not sure,” he said, “it’s hard to speculate. It could have been a bit of a fight, I mean a dog isn’t going to last long alone against a big cat.” Palm added that whatever happened it was clear the dog had been doing his job and that he died defending the sheep.

Palm said he had a good look around the scene as sometimes the culprit will be nearby and available for removal, but that was not the case this time. “In this case the cat was nowhere to be found, the snow was really deep and difficult and it’s a wooded area, so we contacted a local hunter who has hounds, and he attended the area and tried to locate the cat, but because of the conditions he wasn’t able to run the dogs successfully to find the animal,” Palm said.

Kyle Schpansky described the scene when he got his dogs out to the farm. “It had snowed the night it happened [Friday morning] and it snowed Saturday morning as well, so we couldn’t get a good track, there was nothing fresh, everything was under three quarters of an inch of snow. So now we’re waiting until we get another fresh track,” he said. Schpansky said the deep snow made difficult going for his hounds. “The cougar makes as much of a track through the snow as a dog; it will drag it’s belly in this kind of snow, so they [the dogs] can follow it pretty good. It’s tough on them though, a long hunt is tough, so we’re hoping for a short one,” he said.
The hounds chase the cat by scent until they get close enough to put it up a tree, where it can then be shot by the hunter, or drugged and relocated.

Both Schpansky and Dyck figure the big cat will be back. Although it is difficult to obtain an accurate estimate of these elusive cats, an indication of a stable population in the central interior is that there is currently an active hunting season for them. This hunting season is subject to cancellation on short notice anytime the Wildlife Branch feels two many cougars [especially females] are being harvested in an area. “Across central and southern B.C. we have a strong population of cougars,” said Palm, “and from time to time they do take livestock, and this is what has taken place here.” He added that to have wolves and bears and cougars roaming our forests is an excellent indicator of a healthy wilderness.


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Gato Gordo
Heterotrophic Organism
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I will look for other accounts. I have one from an Argentinian hunter involving dogos and pumas, which I have also posted in the old forum.

I will throw the following comments as "food for thought":

1) In practically all interactions between domestic dogs and wild predators (not necessarily felines) there is a "human factor". In "cage matches" or "pit fights" the predator is either a captive or it has to be captured and caged. All these factors make conditions favorable to the dogs, since a captive predator is hand fed and constrained to live in an enclosure, so it lacks the fitness and killing machinery of a wild one. Capturing a wild predator and caging it implies a huge stress on the predator, as it is suddenly taken out of its environment and put in a hostile human environment. This can weaken the animal (this is fact, not speculation: it is shown by increased secretion of the stress hormone cortizol). As a contrast, the dog is comfortable in the human environment.

2) In cases in the hunting context, we are dealing with the interaction of three species: the human hunters, their dogs and the predator (or quarry). It is evident IMO that the humans also influence the events. In general, wild predators know instinctively that dogs mean human proximity, and thus they tend to flee rather than fight (more so if the predator is a feline, which save for lions are solitary predators). Some posters dismiss all this (I had long heated debates on this point specially with Gun B) and argue that the hunters are far away and don't even know where their dogs are. However, while the hunters may not be aware of what their dogs are doing, the predators can sense the presence of humans, and even if the humans are too far to be sensed, the predators know instinctively that dogs mean humans coming. Of course, some interactions in the hunting context can approximate an interaction between the dogs and the predators with little human interference, but this has to be examined in a case by case basis, and hunters' accounts are most times sketchy and hard to verify.

3) There is also the "ambush" argument that assumes an total ambush in every instance of a feline killing a tough domestic dog. While this argument cannot be dismissed because felines are ambushers, it still has a "fight value" because ambushes are not easy feats: the ambusher must be able to kill the ambushee with efficiency, or else it could be very risky, and predators avoid risks. So, a puma or leopard successfully ambushing an impressive dog means that they have the potential to kill that dog in a straight fight.

4) There are also the "intimidating" or chase away stunts. There are examples of this, some times involving modest dogs treeing a cougar. However, predators (more so solitary) are very risk averse and most times will flee when intruding human territory. The bull mastiff chasing away the puma is a classical example. It only proves that the dog is sufficiently risky for the puma to avoid a fight. It doesn't prove that the bull mastiff would win a fight (for example if the puma was cornered).

5) Finally, we can speculate how would a domestic dog would operate if placed completely on its own in the wilderness (zero human presence). IMO, even the most game dogs would be affected by such condition and would not perform as it does in its environment. Again, this was strongly contested by dog fans (specially Gun B) who argued that a game pit bull would fight in the surface of the moon just as well as in its pit environment. I disagree.

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Taipan
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Siberian tiger eats NE China sheepdogs

0 Comment(s)Print E-mail Xinhua, December 28, 2012

A wild Siberian tiger has reportedly eaten two sheepdogs this month in Hunchun City, northeast China's Jilin Province, local forestry police said Friday.

A local resident called forestry police on Wednesday to report that his sheepdog had been eaten by a wild animal when it was guarding a wood frog breeding ditch.

Based on footprints and other clues, police have concluded that a wild adult Siberian tiger must have eaten the sheepdog.

The owner of the dog also said he spotted a Siberian tiger in the nearby mountains days before the dog disappeared.

Police believe the same tiger also killed a sheepdog on Dec. 15.

Siberian tigers, one of the world's rarest animal species, mainly live in eastern Russia, northeast China and northern parts of the Korean Peninsula. Less than 500 Siberian tigers currently live in the wild.

Huncun is located in the border region of China, Russia and the Korean Peninsula. With a forest coverage of 82 percent, the area is an ideal habitat for the wild Siberian tigers and Amur leopards.

In 2006, Jilin Province launched measures to compensate those who are injured or have their property damaged by the wild animals.

http://www.china.org.cn/environment/2012-12/28/content_27544867.htm
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Kurtz
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Prem Kumar, a government forestry officer in Almora, a hill station in Uttararakhand in the Himalayan foothills, decided to use a local dog as bait after two local women were killed in leopard attacks.

His actions were criticised by the campaign group People for Animals which said it amounted to cruelty because the animals used for bait are often killed by leopards who rip their through the bars with such force that their heads are often snapped. They claimed he had 'kidnapped' a local village pet dog and kept it in a cage to entice one of two maneaters on the prowl in and around the village.

Mr Kumar has admitted the allegations and said he is prepared to face the consequences.

"The dog was used to attract the leopards who have wreaked havoc in the area in the last few weeks. The animal rights groups had asked me to ensure the safety of the dog and we have successfully trapped one of the man-eaters. The dog is safe and has been returned to the villagers. We are now looking for the other man-eater," he said.

"I had no intention to hurt the dog and I have been asked to explain my position by the department," he added.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/9612039/Dog-used-to-bait-man-eating-leopard.html
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Canidae
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From Wildlife in South Africa by Colonel James Stevenson-Hamilton
I.M.O a good book, interesting, unbiased and experience source with wealths of information and anecdotes I am currentley posting. Unlike other rangers he is more interested in conserving predator as well as game animals, even those many don't like especially given the older time. (Hyaena & wild dog being hated in the early 1900's, and the book was published in the 50's I believe.)

Leopards
The section opens with "African leopards are no less partial to dogs as articles of diet than their congeners in India" and Hamilton telling of 3 out of 5 curs used by rangers eaten by Leopards before it was tracked and shot.

"Savage and formidable as the leopard undoubtedly is, he will not face large and courageous dogs by daylight, if he can avoid it, and I recollect a couple of such animal belonging to one of the rangers, pinning and holding a leopard until their master came up to dispatch it. Mr. Sanderson, who sometimes hunted leopards with his large pack of dogs, often found very little left by the time he arrived on the scene. A leopard in fact acts very much like an ordinary domestic cat in face of dogs. Driven to bay in some corner, he can and will defy them, but should a way of apparent escape lie open, he will take to flight, and, if caught before reaching a tree or thick covert, the advantage lies with his enemies, provided they know their business an are sufficiently powerful and determined. the Franciscan Fathers at the Baromo Monastery above Tete on the Zambezi, used to own a very large and active cross-bred deerhound, which, they said, had accounted by itself for more than one leopard; but generally speaking, the latter, with its four sets of sharp talons, holds an immense advantage over any single dog, and even if overweighted and borne down, can rip at its enemy's belly with its hind ones. A big dog's only chance is to pin the leopard by the back of the neck while still on the run, when he made succeed in crippling it before it can use its claws. Probably no dog, whatever its size, and no matter how courageous, stands a chance if taken unawares by a leopard."

Some will no doubt be suprised and derisive of the notion of a single Deerhound killing a leopard, but later in the section the weights of Leopards are mentioned:
"I have weighed a good number of low-country leopards immediatley after death and have found the average weight of a full grown male, in fair condition, does not exceed 100lb., although a few animals which have turned the scale at 120 lb. Females average from 20lb. to 30lb. less and one full grown member of the latter sex, in very poor condition, barely drew 53 lb."
Putting it together, a large male Deerhound cross weighing around 115 lbs grabbing a tired, fleeing Leopardess in the day who only weighs around 70 lbs, it is not far-fetched at all to see the dog killing it with the size, stamina and behaviour edge.
Some may also be suprised to hear of Leopard weights so low in S. Africa, especially compared to later studies such as Ted Bailey's. I.M.O this is due to 2 main reasons, 1.) Hunting and keeping game numbers in check was more common and prevalent back then, so 'un-natural selection' likely limited leopard size in hunting areas.
2.) Hamilton believed there were 2 phenotypes of Leopard, low and hill country. He believed hill leopards, which he said he had never weighed, as much larger than low country leopards and so more around the sizes we are more familiar with in Kruger today.

Caracal
"A dog must be both large and courageous to cope successfully single-handed with one of these powerful little cats, and my Irish and Fox terriers have often returned severely worsted from the fray. If pursued by dogs, however, they will usually take to trees, being expert climbers, and can then be easily shot."
I also posted Caracal predation on Eagles from the book.

Serval
"It is a light animal for its height, and though old males occasionally put up a good fight, can usually be tackled by any resolute dog even of small size. In fact, I have known medium-sized Servals held, and once or twice killed single-handed by a plucky fox terrier."

Edited by Canidae, Jan 24 2013, 07:58 AM.
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ADMIN - dont post animal cruetly pics.

Lycaon
Jan 24 2013, 01:18 PM
Vita
Jan 24 2013, 09:19 AM
Leopard killing a large LGD
Vita those are pics of a staged video involving a tied down lgd and a jaguar.
Both the dog and jaguar were killed in the end


ADMIN - Trust you to know. You should have reported the post.
Edited by Taipan, Jan 24 2013, 09:48 PM.
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Lycaon
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Vita
Jan 24 2013, 09:19 AM
Leopard killing a large LGD
Vita those are pics of a staged video involving a tied down lgd and a jaguar.
Both the dog and jaguar were killed in the end
Edited by Lycaon, Jan 24 2013, 01:53 PM.
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Taipan
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Canidae
Jan 24 2013, 07:57 AM

Serval
"It is a light animal for its height, and though old males occasionally put up a good fight, can usually be tackled by any resolute dog even of small size. In fact, I have known medium-sized Servals held, and once or twice killed single-handed by a plucky fox terrier."




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International Wildlife Encyclopedia
By Maurice Burton, Robert Burton
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Mauro20
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That's an unusually large bobcat:
Quote:
 
Simi Valley bobcat captured after killing family dog

State Fish and Game officers captured a 60- to 70-pound bobcat in Simi Valley on Wednesday night after it killed a family dog.

Simi Valley police said the same bobcat likely killed two other dogs Monday evening in the same area, not far from the mountains north of town.

Police were called at 5:11 p.m. to a home on Bluesage Court, which is north of the 118 freeway in the Big Sky neighborhood.

A family's dog had just been killed.

Officers could see the bobcat not far away, and they kept an eye on it while they called the Department of Fish and Game.

The state wildlife officers tranquilized the bobcat and took it away. They had not immediately decided whether to release it in an unpopulated area, police said.
Source: http://www.presstelegram.com/breakingnews/ci_21852042/simi-valley-bobcat-captured-after-killing-family-dog
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Canidae
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Mauro20
Feb 27 2013, 02:04 AM
That's an unusually large bobcat:
Quote:
 
Simi Valley bobcat captured after killing family dog

State Fish and Game officers captured a 60- to 70-pound bobcat in Simi Valley on Wednesday night after it killed a family dog.

Simi Valley police said the same bobcat likely killed two other dogs Monday evening in the same area, not far from the mountains north of town.

Police were called at 5:11 p.m. to a home on Bluesage Court, which is north of the 118 freeway in the Big Sky neighborhood.

A family's dog had just been killed.

Officers could see the bobcat not far away, and they kept an eye on it while they called the Department of Fish and Game.

The state wildlife officers tranquilized the bobcat and took it away. They had not immediately decided whether to release it in an unpopulated area, police said.
Source: http://www.presstelegram.com/breakingnews/ci_21852042/simi-valley-bobcat-captured-after-killing-family-dog
It's size - like many pet / farm attacks such as the Coyote on the LGD - was exaggerated, if you believe one of the article comments, apparentley from the killed dog's owner:

"It was a bobcat about 28 pounds. It killed our Jack Russel. The Dept of Fish and Game took the bobcat away and are going to try and release it far away. My dog was a hero and saved the community from more pet tragedies and hopefully saved the cat as well since it will now be rehab'd and released to a safe location."
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Mauro20
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Canidae
Feb 27 2013, 02:48 AM
It's size - like many pet / farm attacks such as the Coyote on the LGD - was exaggerated, if you believe one of the article comments, apparentley from the killed dog's owner:

"It was a bobcat about 28 pounds. It killed our Jack Russel. The Dept of Fish and Game took the bobcat away and are going to try and release it far away. My dog was a hero and saved the community from more pet tragedies and hopefully saved the cat as well since it will now be rehab'd and released to a safe location."
Well, it makes sense now.
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Gato Gordo
Dec 31 2012, 02:07 PM
I will look for other accounts. I have one from an Argentinian hunter involving dogos and pumas, which I have also posted in the old forum.

I will throw the following comments as "food for thought":

1) In practically all interactions between domestic dogs and wild predators (not necessarily felines) there is a "human factor". In "cage matches" or "pit fights" the predator is either a captive or it has to be captured and caged. All these factors make conditions favorable to the dogs, since a captive predator is hand fed and constrained to live in an enclosure, so it lacks the fitness and killing machinery of a wild one. Capturing a wild predator and caging it implies a huge stress on the predator, as it is suddenly taken out of its environment and put in a hostile human environment. This can weaken the animal (this is fact, not speculation: it is shown by increased secretion of the stress hormone cortizol). As a contrast, the dog is comfortable in the human environment.

2) In cases in the hunting context, we are dealing with the interaction of three species: the human hunters, their dogs and the predator (or quarry). It is evident IMO that the humans also influence the events. In general, wild predators know instinctively that dogs mean human proximity, and thus they tend to flee rather than fight (more so if the predator is a feline, which save for lions are solitary predators). Some posters dismiss all this (I had long heated debates on this point specially with Gun B) and argue that the hunters are far away and don't even know where their dogs are. However, while the hunters may not be aware of what their dogs are doing, the predators can sense the presence of humans, and even if the humans are too far to be sensed, the predators know instinctively that dogs mean humans coming. Of course, some interactions in the hunting context can approximate an interaction between the dogs and the predators with little human interference, but this has to be examined in a case by case basis, and hunters' accounts are most times sketchy and hard to verify.

3) There is also the "ambush" argument that assumes an total ambush in every instance of a feline killing a tough domestic dog. While this argument cannot be dismissed because felines are ambushers, it still has a "fight value" because ambushes are not easy feats: the ambusher must be able to kill the ambushee with efficiency, or else it could be very risky, and predators avoid risks. So, a puma or leopard successfully ambushing an impressive dog means that they have the potential to kill that dog in a straight fight.

4) There are also the "intimidating" or chase away stunts. There are examples of this, some times involving modest dogs treeing a cougar. However, predators (more so solitary) are very risk averse and most times will flee when intruding human territory. The bull mastiff chasing away the puma is a classical example. It only proves that the dog is sufficiently risky for the puma to avoid a fight. It doesn't prove that the bull mastiff would win a fight (for example if the puma was cornered).

5) Finally, we can speculate how would a domestic dog would operate if placed completely on its own in the wilderness (zero human presence). IMO, even the most game dogs would be affected by such condition and would not perform as it does in its environment. Again, this was strongly contested by dog fans (specially Gun B) who argued that a game pit bull would fight in the surface of the moon just as well as in its pit environment. I disagree.

I agree with you on many parts Gato, but I also think it is important to remeber that big cats go into human settlements and try to hunt dogs, therefore making the human factor questioned with animals used to live near human settlements, especially when meeting dogs in a hunt where the humans are far away. Although I agree the human factor plays a role in many hunts, specially with hunting of felines, because most felines are very wary of humans. Also as animals that have never meet humans or a hunting situation before, are not that likely to fear humans in that way, atleast they won't know there is a human with a weapon behind these dogs. I also don't think this goes for animals such as badgers, raccons, and coyotes are to affected by this, often being used to live near humans, and with little fear of them.

When it comes to pit fighting, I agree, and think this is terrible for the wild animal. And definently not a fair fight, where I agree that the conditions and the human factor is a an important factor.

I totally agree on part 3 and 4, but at part 5 I disagree with you. I have a sbt myself, and he would be exactly the same dog if running of into the forest and meeting a wild animal, also if meeting a dominant male dog. Luckily he never runs of. For apbts, sbts and ebt's it is not natural to fear another animal, they would hunt/fight any animals, no matter how big or dangerous, with or without humans. This was breed into them, and they don't need a human to back them up. Even though, a sbt/apbt/ebt living in the wild, would be probably be more concentrated on finding food rather that killing/fighting any wild animals it finds, in that way their beavior would probably change after a while by itself. But many other breeds would change their behaviour without their human near, but not terriers and a few molosser breeds used to guard a against wild animals and confront them.

I can also add that I never would believe that any canine, wild or domestic, could beat a adult male cougar or leopard in a fair fight.
Edited by Bull and Terrier, Feb 27 2013, 11:47 PM.
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