| Welcome to Carnivora. We hope you enjoy your visit. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| At what size do felids and canids become deadly | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 12 2012, 02:57 AM (6,274 Views) | |
| Vita | Apr 30 2013, 03:50 AM Post #31 |
![]()
Cave Canem
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
A 40 pound dog of any breed will very seldom manage to take down the average man. It would almost be one sided actually. Especially in a life or death situation. If I had to choose which to fight it would be a dog without question. I'd take on a 40 lb canid, wild or otherwise because 40 pounds is nothing to the average adult. |
![]() |
|
| Bull and Terrier | May 1 2013, 04:10 AM Post #32 |
|
Herbivore
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I really don't think you would say that after being attacked by a apbt or sbt that size. I'm not talking about dogs in general, there is a huge diffrence between breeds. As I have posted earlier on this forum, at this size they have killed the average adult man. Still it would not be the norm, and the average adult human would win with injuries most of the time, that we agree on. I would rather be attacked by a cat at that size, it could do so serious injuries in such short amount of time, but I would defienetly not like the claws. |
![]() |
|
| Vita | May 1 2013, 04:37 AM Post #33 |
![]()
Cave Canem
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I've handled larger pitbulls than that with ease. I personally would like my chances fighting off a dog (pitbull or not) than a feline of similar size. Its bad enough that we have to deal with a set of teeth, but claws shredding into my skin, causing severe lacerations would make a bad situation worse. |
![]() |
|
| Bull and Terrier | May 1 2013, 07:30 AM Post #34 |
|
Herbivore
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
There is a big diffrence in handling them when agitated, or very exited, than in a full on attack where they actually grab you. Not my intention ignorant now, so Correct me if I'm wrong but I doubt you have been attacked by apbt, in a full on attack? Ofcourse, but a cat would not deliver bites in that way either. The cat would try to get in a position to get a killing bite, while a apbt would hold and shake powerfully, doing huge damage. I'm a strong guy, been going to the gym for 10 years, and also done kick boxing and now MMA, but if my sbt at 50 pounds wanted to take me down and went for it, I would have a real problem, if he got hold of my arm, before I got control over him, I would be in a bad situation, even though probably winning in the end. Also, both apbt and sbt have injured and killed adult horses (admittely probably not the youngest and strongest specimens), so I don't think a human should do to many mistakes fighting one. But I respect your opinion, just pointing out some important details Edited by Bull and Terrier, May 1 2013, 07:33 AM.
|
![]() |
|
| FelinePowah | May 1 2013, 07:53 AM Post #35 |
![]()
Pussy Lover
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Oh come on, if an adult was in the frame of mind to kill the apbt, the dog wouldnt stand a chance, its one weapon can be stopped, an adult is far stronger then a 50lb dog.....people are talking about the dog being enraged and being wild, but what about the human being enraged....the human can easily pick the dog clean off the floor and slam it against a tree or anything... I really cant see how a 50lb dog would have any hope in killing an adult that was willing to fight back.. |
![]() |
|
| Munfy | May 1 2013, 08:16 AM Post #36 |
|
Herbivore
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Did you miss the thread about the 20something lb dog that pluled a couple thousand pounds? If a strait cage or pit style fight the human has a very good chance but if even a 50 pound dog get a running start jumps and grabs your arm in air your probably gonna loose your balance and if it knocks you over your in a really bad situation. I will admit that its usually only dogs trained in bite work or protection that attack that way but I think your really underestimating dogs I would realy like to see the average joe pick up a 50lb weight thats clamped down on one of thier arms with a couple hundred pounds of force while its shaking violently? |
![]() |
|
| Vita | May 1 2013, 08:22 AM Post #37 |
![]()
Cave Canem
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I've never been maimed by any dog (bitten, not maimed) but I'd rather handle a 40-50 pound dog regardless of the breed than a feline of similar size. I'm sure I would sustain some serious wounds, but in a life or death struggle I would kill a dog if I had too. Dogs of that size RARELY kill adults, maim, yes, but kill? No. Children and the elderly are the most vulnerable to dog attacks. I'd wager you'd crush your 50 EBT in a serious scuffle. Yeah, he may have your arm but you could still use your superior strength in addition weight to literally break that dog's rib cage, pick him up and slam him down and stomping on its neck. I don't believe the average man would be killed by a dog of that size. I've seen a guy literally thrash a pitbull type that attacked his dog. It bit his hands and arms up pretty bad though. That's probably an understatement, this guy's arm was mangled. But he picked up that 60+ lb dog and slammed it on the pavement a few good times. And before he was finished he caved in that dog's chest by coming down on top of it with his knees. HIS KNEES. That caused MASSIVE internal damage to that dog and that's when it finally let him go, screaming at the top of its lungs. A 40 or 50 pound dog would have been flung across the road by that guy. And he wasn't a large guy, just average. Maybe 6ft 170 lbs? But he was pissed off and didn't know what else to do in that situation. |
![]() |
|
| Black Ice | May 1 2013, 08:34 AM Post #38 |
![]()
Drom King
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Cuts don't actually hurt, at least not enough for you to be screaming in pain. They burn for a second afterwards but soon the adrenaline numbs the pain away. It's not like your getting stabbed (Which I heard hurts like F*CK!)
Edited by Black Ice, May 1 2013, 08:39 AM.
|
![]() |
|
| Sicilianu | May 1 2013, 10:52 AM Post #39 |
![]()
Omnivore
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I will say that in practice, most veterinary techs and handlers would rather handle an angry dog than an angry cat. It is much easier to control the former, even when it is large. Having said that, if it were about a fight to the death, I would rather fight a cat than a dog. My personal opinion is that given the species at the minimum lethal size, I think the dog is to be feared a bit more. I think its teeth can do more damage than a cats. The canines are more designed to rip and tear. A felid at the minimum size would need to get a throat bite to kill, whereas a dog can hit many other parts of the body and cause massive blood loss. This holds true, IMO, at around the 40lb range. Leopard cubs I worked with above this size were considered lethal, and we were no longer allowed to go into exhibits with them (partly because the leopardess I worked with produced extremely aggressive young after her own temperament). I know keepers who went in with CLs, but never two at a time. The size of a leopards claws at that size, although large and sharp, are not large enough to disembowel, in my opinion. I think the dogs teeth would do more damage at a faster rate, especially a dog with little concern for pain. I was told recently at school that an Ambull disemboweled a veterinarian not long ago, when the handler released the head. This may be hearsay, as I don't have an actual document, so I am just repeating what I was told. Once the felid moves into the 50lb range, it rapidly becomes more deadly than the dog. Its explosive power behind five points of attack becomes too much for a thin skinned human. The blood loss from the claws of these animals will be very great. These would not be scratches, but gashes, although disembowelment is still questionable. Once you get into the weight range where pantherines (and bears for that matter) are, the canid design becomes eclipsed. Its adaptions for running and endurance hinder its versatility in a fight. Finally, I will say that I enjoy watching different types of dogs play. In my opinion, play is often a way of practicing skills. Bully breeds have remarkable flexibility in both their grappling behavior and the joints and limbs themselves. I certainly think that these would help throw a person off balance. Once on the ground, I don't see many people winning, even large burly men. I originally suggested this topic because the line is somewhat hard to draw in terms of whether felids or canids become deadlier at a particular weight. I believe the dog to have a slight edge early on, but once the felid gets going, it outpaces the dog rapidly in damage done. This is my opinion as of now, but perhaps it will change as I learn and experience more. EDIT: In terms of what hurts more, I found that adrenaline makes you quite numb to pain. I have been bitten, torn, scratched, kicked, and gored by various species. In the moment, I did not feel a thing. I say this in reference to Black's previous post. Again, this was my personal, subjective experience. Edited by Sicilianu, May 1 2013, 10:56 AM.
|
![]() |
|
| Black Ice | May 1 2013, 11:09 AM Post #40 |
![]()
Drom King
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
^ That was perfect for this thread. Well done! I'd love to know at what weight do animals like primates and crocodilians become deadly to human as well now that we're at it.
Edited by Black Ice, May 1 2013, 11:10 AM.
|
![]() |
|
| FelinePowah | May 1 2013, 04:22 PM Post #41 |
![]()
Pussy Lover
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Errrm you make no sense.... so eventhough a dog even a large one if far easiar to control you would still rather fight a cat??? The animal that is easiar to control is the one thats going to do less damage and is the one that is easiar to beat. Trying to control just a small domestic cat is way way harder then a dog of a similar size now turn that cat into a caracal,Euro lynx or CL and you are in for a huge amount of pain.... turn that into a Apbt and all you have to focus on is the head.....nothing else matters.....im sorry but that sounds like a far easiar task to me. |
![]() |
|
| Bandog | May 1 2013, 08:59 PM Post #42 |
![]()
Everything else is just a dog.
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I would rather fight an apbt than an equally weighted clouded leopard for damn sure. I pitbull will likely mangle a hand or an arm but the cl will shred whatever goes near it. I think the pitbull might be harder to kill for a person though as they don't quit easy but a man should take one out. The cl could easily reach a mans throat in a single jump. |
![]() |
|
| FelinePowah | May 1 2013, 09:12 PM Post #43 |
![]()
Pussy Lover
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
And humans have pulled planes!!!!! What happends if the human has a running start and slams into the dog??? As soon as the dog bites the human it loses any advantage it has as it now in grabbing punching kicking strangeling distance.. That even if the dog can get a bite in...if the human is quick enough they could grab the dog before it can do any real damage. |
![]() |
|
| JaM | May 1 2013, 09:41 PM Post #44 |
|
Heterotrophic Organism
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
50 lbs, something around that. It goes for both cats and dogs. It does depend on which type - a dog which is especially well fit for fighting another dog may not be the ultimate person killer. I think a taller dog is potentially more lethal for humans specifically. They may not be able to take on the self-described supermen who post here, but it may still be able to kill a random human. For cats, the problem is that smaller cats have proportionally smaller mouths - they just don't have human killing capacity at all. At around 50 lbs I believe some cat types (such as a leopard) may be able to kill a human, as long as it's not one of those he-men of the Carnivora forum. |
![]() |
|
| da pink | May 1 2013, 09:54 PM Post #45 |
|
Omnivore
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
50lbs just isn't heavy enough for a fit healthy make inho. Adrenaline is an amazing drug (and if a 50lb animal was trying to end your life it would be pumping) I got knocked off my motorcycle. I ripped my bicep out of the shoulder socket. My kneecap was completely exposed taking 3 operations to make it even something like, and the gear lever went thru my foot. I stood up, walked 30 yards and picked my bike up. I think a 50lb felid/canine could do me immense damage but i would not be aware of it and eventually i'd smash it to pulp. |
![]() |
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
![]() Join the millions that use us for their forum communities. Create your own forum today. Learn More · Register Now |
|
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · Zoological Debate & Discussion · Next Topic » |






![]](http://b2.ifrm.com/28122/87/0/p701956/pipright.png)








9:52 AM Jul 11