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South American Giant Short-faced Bear v Andrewsarchus
Topic Started: Jan 13 2012, 10:33 PM (14,645 Views)
Taipan
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Andrewsarchus mongoliensis
Andrewsarchus mongoliensis was a giant mammalian predator of Central Asia and the largest, and most famous member of the mesonychids, a wholly extinct group of prehistoric mammals. The mesonychids were the only known group of ungulates to become carnivorous, and looked vaguely like wolves, with blunt, hoof-like nails instead of claws. Andrewsarchus (Andrews + Greek ἀñ÷üò, "ruler") was named for the famous explorer and fossil hunter Roy Chapman Andrews, who led the expedition on which it was discovered in 1923.
Andrewsarchus is known only from an enormous skull (83 cm long and 56 cm wide) and pieces of bone, but the skull's similarity to that of smaller mesonychids suggests that Andrewsarchus had the same wolf-like body on a larger scale. Extrapolating from the body proportions of similar mesonychids, as well as large land mammals in general, Andrewsarchus was most likely about 4–6 metres (13–18 feet) long, standing nearly 2 metres (6 feet) at the shoulder, and weighing well over 1,500 pounds,[1] making it the largest terrestrial carnivorous mammal known to have ever existed. Based on the proportion comparisons to mesonychids and modern day ursids, it is believed that the largest of the Andrewsarchus may have weighed nearly a ton (close to 2,000 pounds, or 907 kg). It is open to debate whether the animal was gracile or robust in build. It should be noted that modern white rhinoceros specimens are much heavier than these figures, though rhino bodies are about as long.

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South American Giant Short-faced Bear - Arctotherium angustidens
Arctotherium is an extinct genus of South American short-faced bears within Ursidae of the late Pliocene through the end of the Pleistocene. They were endemic to South America living from ~2.0–0.01 Ma, existing for approximately 1.99 million years. Their closest relatives were the North American short-faced bears of genus Arctodus (A. pristinus and A. simus). The closest living relative would be the Spectacled bear (Tremarctos ornatus).
Based on measurements of the fossil's leg bones and equations used to estimate body mass, the researchers say the bear would have stood at least 11 feet tall (3.3 meters) on its hind legs and would have weighed between 3,500 and 3,855 pounds (1,588 and 1,749 kilograms). In comparison, "the largest record for a living bear is a male polar bear that obtained the weight of about 2,200 pounds (1,000 kg)," said researcher Leopoldo Soibelzon, a paleontologist at the La Plata Museum.

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Edited by Taipan, Sep 3 2012, 09:02 PM.
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Replies:
yigit05
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Kleptoparasite
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anderwsarhus wins size avantage,stronger bite,agility
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Elosha11
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It sounds like the bear's size advantage and grappling ability would usually carry the day over Andrewsarchus' deadly bite, but it wouldn't be easy. Bear could easily end up badly wounded even if it won. Shortfaced bear 60/40.
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Ursus arctos
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Arctodus Simus
Jan 19 2012, 08:36 AM
1588 - 1749 kilos sounds waaay too much... Given the fact that Andrewsarchus had a 83 centimeter skull I find it hard to belive it was SMALLER than the bear. Andrewsarchus skull were actually wider than the bear's skull was long - it's HUGE.
I'm not sure where you're getting the dimensions for Arctotherium angustiden's skull from, but only skulls belonging to females have been found.

The weight estimates appear reliable, given the absolute massiveness of the male bear's limb bones.
The authors of the paper used a large number of equations papers by other authors derived to relate limb bone dimensions to body mass in mammalian carnivores. Because of how much larger Arctotherium angustidens is than any of them it is quite an extrapolation (being far outside the data set used to calculate it).

The old males humeri were 62 and 61.5 cm long-and more significantly by far the most robust humeri I've ever seen measurements for. Perhaps this is expected given positive allometry of limb bone robustness.

Still the point is, this bear was big.

See the guy hold up an Arctotherium humerus up to the front legs of a modern bear and then an elephant, and tell me you think 1588-1749 kg "sounds waaay too much"!

Arctotherium angustidens wins easily.
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yigit05
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andrewsarhus wins stronger bite,agility,size avantage,
arctoterium weight,paws,more muscular
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jj5893
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The bear could possibly overpower its opponent.
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yigit05
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http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTNuZvR31Ro3Gzg8hdYp0T-xAFhgcBQFHIX-Dtr7Xjo11feSIAJ
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Verdugo
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This is a comparison between Arctotherium humerus and a moderate sized Asian elephant, this bear without doubt is very massive and enormously powerful
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221Extra
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Deny, deny, deny.
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Verdugo
Sep 13 2012, 12:08 AM
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This is a comparison between Arctotherium humerus and a moderate sized Asian elephant, this bear without doubt is very massive and enormously powerful
I wouldn't say that species as a whole was super big but that specific (only) specimen was huge & it was described as an old male, so it could have just been a freak specimen for all we know.
Edited by 221Extra, Sep 13 2012, 12:17 AM.
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Verdugo
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221extra
Sep 13 2012, 12:12 AM
Verdugo
Sep 13 2012, 12:08 AM
Posted Image

This is a comparison between Arctotherium humerus and a moderate sized Asian elephant, this bear without doubt is very massive and enormously powerful
I wouldn't say that species as a whole was super big but that specific (only) specimen was huge & it was described as an old male, so it could have just been a freak specimen for all we know.
Even if is just a freak specimen, its humerus is still larger and proportionately thicker than any other freak specimens of other bears, this suggests that perhaps it's heavier and larger as well
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Ursus panthera
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Bear wins.
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Mauro20
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The bear wins.
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yigit05
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bear weight,more muscular,paws
andrewsarhus size avantage,stronger bite,agility
bear 51/49 win
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Vivyx
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Felines, sharks, birds, arthropods
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Bear
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Sci Fyena
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I remember watching a documentary about short-faced bears that suggested that they were almost pure scavengers. Does anyone know if that is absolute bollocks or not?
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Dynasty Warrior
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In walking with beasts, one Brontothere deterred two hungry Andrewsarchus. The bear is twice andrewsarchuses size. Bear wins in my opinion.
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