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| South American Giant Short-faced Bear v Andrewsarchus | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 13 2012, 10:33 PM (14,641 Views) | |
| Taipan | Jan 13 2012, 10:33 PM Post #1 |
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Andrewsarchus mongoliensis Andrewsarchus mongoliensis was a giant mammalian predator of Central Asia and the largest, and most famous member of the mesonychids, a wholly extinct group of prehistoric mammals. The mesonychids were the only known group of ungulates to become carnivorous, and looked vaguely like wolves, with blunt, hoof-like nails instead of claws. Andrewsarchus (Andrews + Greek ἀñ÷üò, "ruler") was named for the famous explorer and fossil hunter Roy Chapman Andrews, who led the expedition on which it was discovered in 1923. Andrewsarchus is known only from an enormous skull (83 cm long and 56 cm wide) and pieces of bone, but the skull's similarity to that of smaller mesonychids suggests that Andrewsarchus had the same wolf-like body on a larger scale. Extrapolating from the body proportions of similar mesonychids, as well as large land mammals in general, Andrewsarchus was most likely about 4–6 metres (13–18 feet) long, standing nearly 2 metres (6 feet) at the shoulder, and weighing well over 1,500 pounds,[1] making it the largest terrestrial carnivorous mammal known to have ever existed. Based on the proportion comparisons to mesonychids and modern day ursids, it is believed that the largest of the Andrewsarchus may have weighed nearly a ton (close to 2,000 pounds, or 907 kg). It is open to debate whether the animal was gracile or robust in build. It should be noted that modern white rhinoceros specimens are much heavier than these figures, though rhino bodies are about as long. ![]() South American Giant Short-faced Bear - Arctotherium angustidens Arctotherium is an extinct genus of South American short-faced bears within Ursidae of the late Pliocene through the end of the Pleistocene. They were endemic to South America living from ~2.0–0.01 Ma, existing for approximately 1.99 million years. Their closest relatives were the North American short-faced bears of genus Arctodus (A. pristinus and A. simus). The closest living relative would be the Spectacled bear (Tremarctos ornatus). Based on measurements of the fossil's leg bones and equations used to estimate body mass, the researchers say the bear would have stood at least 11 feet tall (3.3 meters) on its hind legs and would have weighed between 3,500 and 3,855 pounds (1,588 and 1,749 kilograms). In comparison, "the largest record for a living bear is a male polar bear that obtained the weight of about 2,200 pounds (1,000 kg)," said researcher Leopoldo Soibelzon, a paleontologist at the La Plata Museum.
Edited by Taipan, Sep 3 2012, 09:02 PM.
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| Warsaw2014 | Jul 11 2016, 01:20 PM Post #61 |
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Herbivore
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MLP 35 is heavier IMO |
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| Sparx | Apr 5 2018, 04:57 AM Post #62 |
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Autotrophic Organism
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If the bear had that huge weight advantage... then why do people call Andrewsarchus as the largest mammalian land predator to ever live.... If considering the OP, I would give it to the bear due to its weight advantage. |
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| Ausar | Apr 5 2018, 06:59 AM Post #63 |
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Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
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It’s probable that Arcotherium wasn’t as big as the OP claims. But even then that still wouldn’t make Andrewsarchus the largest terrestrial mammalian predator.
Edited by Ausar, Apr 5 2018, 06:59 AM.
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| Sparx | Apr 6 2018, 06:04 AM Post #64 |
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Autotrophic Organism
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/\ But even google and wikipedia say it can reach up to 3000 lbs and the average is about 1800 to 2000 lbs. Talking about the bear..
Edited by Sparx, Apr 7 2018, 04:04 AM.
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| Ausar | Apr 6 2018, 07:54 AM Post #65 |
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Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
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Except Google, the OP, and Wikipedia are all effectively the same source. By this I mean that the former two get their claim from Wikipedia, which in turn gets its claim from the original paper. There are a few wanting aspects of the paper’s methodology that resulted in the ~1.5t estimate.
Edited by Ausar, Apr 6 2018, 07:57 AM.
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| Sparx | Apr 7 2018, 04:02 AM Post #66 |
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Autotrophic Organism
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So what is your opinion on which is larger and, which is the largest mammalian land predator that ever lived... |
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| Ausar | Apr 7 2018, 04:30 AM Post #67 |
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Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
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Andrewsarchus is only known from a skull, so as of now no mass estimates for it can truly be taken at face value. At times there were estimates on this site that were based off of what Andrewsarchus plausibly looked like (GDI estimate), resulting in ~660-800 kilograms. I think that's possible, but again, of course, I can't say with any certainty. As for Arctotherium, the same person who tried to make a GDI of Andrewsarchus also estimated Arctotherium at ~590 kilograms, but he has since said that this isn't up to date. So I'm not entirely sure about Arctotherium. I think that, most likely, either could have plausibly outweighed the other by about few hundred kilograms, but probably no more than that. Edited by Ausar, Apr 7 2018, 04:33 AM.
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