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Baboons v Dogs; originaly Baboon intruders killed by pet dogs
Topic Started: Jan 9 2012, 06:50 PM (25,210 Views)
Taipan
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Baboon intruders killed by pet dogs

We're in the kitchen talking about the chaotic baboon situation in Tokai when we hear whistles blowing, baboons screaming and then gunshots.

A neighbour phones to say "you'd better get out there".

At the front door Fuzzy, the Alaskan malamute cross wolf, is panting furiously, his white chest covered with bright red blood.

At the bottom of the garden we find a large male baboon, dead. Deep gashes to his body indicate that he's been attacked by dogs. His long fangs are still bared, pink with blood.

It's a shocking sight.

A neighbour's Staffordshire terrier, badly injured during the fight, has already been taken to the vet. Fuzzy is unhurt. Lippies, a mixed breed dog, has two deep puncture wounds.

This is the second baboon to be killed at Diana Seewer's Tokai property in two days.

The first was on Monday afternoon.

"I was on my own when about 30 of them appeared on the property," she said. "I started chasing them away and whistled to the dogs to come and help me. They got hold of one (a small female) and attacked it.

"The male baboons were coming to help, attracted by the screams of the injured baboon. There was no way I could get the dogs off. I was terrified of being attacked."

Although her screams attracted neighbours, they couldn't get in to her enclosed property to help. The baboons were between her and the gate.

Seewer is a bundle of nerves and at her wit's end.

She and her workers, Maureen Jeffreys and Raymond Domingo, have spent the day chasing away baboons. They carry whistles to alert each other to baboons. The dogs tear up and down the garden fence chasing the baboons, who run on the other side, easily clearing the high barbed wire fences even with babies clinging to their bellies.

Seewer is worried. "The baboons tried to get into the the stable and my valuable show pony jumped out and hurt herself. I'm terrified she'll get ripped open."

She's also concerned that now her dogs have killed, they'll kill again.

Minutes after telling me this, another baboon is dead.

She is not happy with what's happening to the baboons.

"It was awful to see the savaged baboon, I couldn't look. I love animals, I rescue them.

"But I provide animals for movies, and I have got to defend them."

Baboon troubles in the Zwaanswyk Road area of Tokai started a few weeks ago, say residents, probably exacerbated by the refuse lying in the street because of the municipal workers' strike.

The baboon troop in the Tokai area is about 100 strong, and every winter it moves down from the mountains looking for food, says Dean Ferreira, manager of nature conservation for the City of Cape Town. Nature conservation is one of many bodies that sits on the baboon monitoring team mandated to find solutions to the baboon problem.

The Tokai troop traditionally foraged on the Cape Flats in winter when food is scarce. Now there is residential development in the area.

Although the Friends of Tokai Forest has baboon monitors, it is difficult for them to control baboons in this area because plots are huge and surrounded by high walls and fences and a lot of trees.

"It's a hard job, and all they get is complaints. Once the baboons enter a property, their actions are useless," says Ferreira.

"Also, people here are not baboon-oriented. They don't lock away their rubbish, they have vegetable patches, dog food is left outside, there is hay and lucerne."

Residents complain that baboons damage roofs and trash bins, and say they are scared for their children's and animals' safety.

Feelings are now running high. Crackers, catapults and gunshots are common - someone even made a flamethrower to get rid of the baboons, says Ferreira.

"And we know baboons are dying. We hear the shots."

Seewer is adamant something must be done.

"It's actually sad. The baboons can't escape, we're all chasing them into each other's property. But someone has to take control. We didn't agree to live in a conservation area. It's chaos, it's a war zone.

"We pay a lot to live here and I don't want to live like this. There are no laws, no guidelines here."

Garland Lee, who lives near Seewer, says she wants the baboons culled. "I hate them, they're all over my roof. I am disabled and can't chase them away. I'm frightened they'll kill my dogs, one of which is a champion chihuahua, so I promptly put him on a plane to Jo'burg.

"I love wildlife, but I don't want a lion in my garden."

Ferreira agrees that the interaction between baboons and human beings is out of hand. Another meeting between the baboon monitoring team and residents is being set up. A meeting two months ago in anticipation of winter problems was poorly attended.

Ferreira is adamant that killing baboons doesn't help. "As a conservationist I will not be involved in killing baboons. If we compromise on baboons, then where do we stop?"

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=ct20020724103249962B500594




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Canidae
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A thread idea that was on the old Carnivora, a compilation of accounts of Baboons vs. dogs. Mostly from Cape Town in South Africa. Also, if anyone has anything particularly good on the conflict between man and baboons feel free to post it here too! :)

Chickens, geese, peacocks and even a Great Dane dog have been killed in recent weeks by the marauding baboons - the males have huge and terrifying canine teeth. Roof tiles, electric fences, orchards and vegetables gardens have been trashed.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/southafrica/7969313/Drunk-baboons-plague-Cape-Towns-exclusive-suburbs.html


A FAMILY living in the mountainous area on the outskirts of Eros, in Windhoek, last week got the shock of their lives when their pet dog, Browny, was nearly ripped in half by baboons.

The incident occurred during the night and caused the dog to die instantly. The dog belonged to State House official Ben Nangombe who said he was dismayed at the baboons’ horrific actions. People living in the area have gotten used to baboons raiding their rubbish bins and sometimes even their homes for food, sometimes leading to conflict.

The violence displayed by the baboons who killed the Nangombes’ dog was however an unusual sight to them. The Nangombes say the problems with their pet and the baboons probably started as far back as August last year, when the dog was also seriously injured and had scratch marks all over its body. At that time the family took the dog to the State Veterinarian in Windhoek, who confirmed that the dog had been attacked by a baboon. City Police Public Relations Officer Marx Hipandwa said he was not aware of this specific incident but said he could remember another episode a few years back when it was reported to the City of Windhoek that baboons had taken over and caused a lot of damage at Heroes Acre.

http://www.namibiansun.com/node/1234


Baboon intruders killed by pet dogs

We're in the kitchen talking about the chaotic baboon situation in Tokai when we hear whistles blowing, baboons screaming and then gunshots.

A neighbour phones to say "you'd better get out there".

At the front door Fuzzy, the Alaskan malamute cross wolf, is panting furiously, his white chest covered with bright red blood.

At the bottom of the garden we find a large male baboon, dead. Deep gashes to his body indicate that he's been attacked by dogs. His long fangs are still bared, pink with blood.

It's a shocking sight.


A neighbour's Staffordshire terrier, badly injured during the fight, has already been taken to the vet. Fuzzy is unhurt. Lippies, a mixed breed dog, has two deep puncture wounds.

This is the second baboon to be killed at Diana Seewer's Tokai property in two days.

The first was on Monday afternoon.

"I was on my own when about 30 of them appeared on the property," she said. "I started chasing them away and whistled to the dogs to come and help me. They got hold of one (a small female) and attacked it.

"The male baboons were coming to help, attracted by the screams of the injured baboon. There was no way I could get the dogs off. I was terrified of being attacked."


Although her screams attracted neighbours, they couldn't get in to her enclosed property to help. The baboons were between her and the gate.

Seewer is a bundle of nerves and at her wit's end.

She and her workers, Maureen Jeffreys and Raymond Domingo, have spent the day chasing away baboons. They carry whistles to alert each other to baboons. The dogs tear up and down the garden fence chasing the baboons, who run on the other side, easily clearing the high barbed wire fences even with babies clinging to their bellies.

Seewer is worried. "The baboons tried to get into the the stable and my valuable show pony jumped out and hurt herself. I'm terrified she'll get ripped open."

She's also concerned that now her dogs have killed, they'll kill again.

Minutes after telling me this, another baboon is dead.

She is not happy with what's happening to the baboons.

"It was awful to see the savaged baboon, I couldn't look. I love animals, I rescue them.

"But I provide animals for movies, and I have got to defend them."

Baboon troubles in the Zwaanswyk Road area of Tokai started a few weeks ago, say residents, probably exacerbated by the refuse lying in the street because of the municipal workers' strike.

The baboon troop in the Tokai area is about 100 strong, and every winter it moves down from the mountains looking for food, says Dean Ferreira, manager of nature conservation for the City of Cape Town. Nature conservation is one of many bodies that sits on the baboon monitoring team mandated to find solutions to the baboon problem.

The Tokai troop traditionally foraged on the Cape Flats in winter when food is scarce. Now there is residential development in the area.

Although the Friends of Tokai Forest has baboon monitors, it is difficult for them to control baboons in this area because plots are huge and surrounded by high walls and fences and a lot of trees.

"It's a hard job, and all they get is complaints. Once the baboons enter a property, their actions are useless," says Ferreira.

"Also, people here are not baboon-oriented. They don't lock away their rubbish, they have vegetable patches, dog food is left outside, there is hay and lucerne."

Residents complain that baboons damage roofs and trash bins, and say they are scared for their children's and animals' safety.

Feelings are now running high. Crackers, catapults and gunshots are common - someone even made a flamethrower to get rid of the baboons, says Ferreira.

"And we know baboons are dying. We hear the shots."

Seewer is adamant something must be done.

"It's actually sad. The baboons can't escape, we're all chasing them into each other's property. But someone has to take control. We didn't agree to live in a conservation area. It's chaos, it's a war zone.

"We pay a lot to live here and I don't want to live like this. There are no laws, no guidelines here."

Garland Lee, who lives near Seewer, says she wants the baboons culled. "I hate them, they're all over my roof. I am disabled and can't chase them away. I'm frightened they'll kill my dogs, one of which is a champion chihuahua, so I promptly put him on a plane to Jo'burg.

"I love wildlife, but I don't want a lion in my garden."

Ferreira agrees that the interaction between baboons and human beings is out of hand. Another meeting between the baboon monitoring team and residents is being set up. A meeting two months ago in anticipation of winter problems was poorly attended.

Ferreira is adamant that killing baboons doesn't help. "As a conservationist I will not be involved in killing baboons. If we compromise on baboons, then where do we stop?"

http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/baboon-intruders-killed-by-pet-dogs-1.90274


The ongoing conflict disturbs and divides the community. Many people say the baboons are turning more brazen with each passing year.

Edna Joubert's collie dog, Mia, cornered a large male baboon in the family bedroom. The dog paid with her life. But Joubert says having baboons in town is what makes life in Scarborough distinctive.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5529522






Edited by Canidae, Jan 24 2012, 07:16 AM.
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Neen
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To me , this is THE most interesting match up. I have been to SA and have seen both baboons and some amazing Boerboel specimens. I have heard crazy stories, from the locals , about how bold and ruthless the baboon can be and how fearless and loyal the mighty Boerboel is. This is epic and real.
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Neen
Jan 24 2012, 12:41 PM
To me , this is THE most interesting match up. I have been to SA and have seen both baboons and some amazing Boerboel specimens. I have heard crazy stories, from the locals , about how bold and ruthless the baboon can be and how fearless and loyal the mighty Boerboel is. This is epic and real.
A Boerboel would really be overkill.

Taipan - or anyone - do you have the account of Flintis the Anatolian Shephard killing two male Baboons? I'll see if I can find it.
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Birinci's Flintis was born March 1994. His dam is Pinarbasi's Tamum (Charlie), Granddam to my Birinci's Yahsi (Handsome). Charlie is pictured here in 2003. Flintis's Sire is the muscular Turkish Import, Ulash of Tokat. His picture can be found in my forth generation Anatolians.

Flintis is famous in Namibia, Africa, and worldwide. Perhaps Flintis is the world's most famous working guardian Anatolian because when he was only 20 months old he defended his herd against a baboon troup and lived!

Flintis was donated to the Cheetah Conservation Fund in Namibia to participate in their Livestock Guarding Dog Program by Birinci Kennels in June, 1994. This program, begun in 1994 with the cooperation of Ray Coppinger,co-founder of the Livestock Dog Project at Hampshire College in Amherst, Massachusetts, and donates Anatolians to small African farmers and ranchers to protect their livestock from cheetah, jackals, hyena, and other predators.

According to the Born Free Foundation, the cheetah population is now endangered. An American woman named Laurie Marker co-founded the Cheetah Conservation Fund (CCF) outside Otjiwarongo, Namibia. One method she devised to help the cheetah population was to breed Anatolian shepherds and place them with ranchers. Anatolians seemed ideal because they have a special style. For hundreds of years they have been prized by Turkish sheep owners for their tendency to stay close to camp and not run off chasing other animals.

Ninety-five percent of Namibia's cheetah population lives on commercial farmlands and and are believed to be a threat to livestock. Many farmers shoot or catch cheetah, reducing the already endangered population, so this program was designed to help preserve the cheetah population there. As a part of this program, Flintis was placed on a farm/ranch with a serious cheetah problem owned by Mr. Johann Coetzee, who had reported losses as high as 43 lambs/kids in one night. (In the six years following Flintis's arrival from the CCF, cheetahs didn't make a single successful attack on Coetzee's sheep.)

When Mr. Coetzee acquired his Anatolian shepherd pup (Flintis), he named him Flenters, which is Afrikaans for "rags." When he was six weeks old "Flenters" (Flintis) was placed with lambs and goats about his size and taken on short outings with the herd in the mornings. Flintis lived, ate and slept with Coetzee's livestock to aid in the bonding process. The ultimate goal is to produce a dog so protective and possessive of his flock that he will treat them as if they were his own pups to be cherished and protected.

When Flintis was nine weeks old, Coetzee's herdsman reported that Flintis was chasing lambs, something they wouldn't tolerate. The herdsman wanted Flintis removed. Having decided he liked the gregarious young pup, Mr. Coetzee wanted to observe him for one more day. When he watched, he saw that Flintis was resting in the shade with the lambs. When the lambs moved into the sun, Flintis got up and redirected them back into the comfortable shade. This made Mr. Coetzee smile. Like generations of his forebears bred to guard livestock on the Anatolian Plateau of Turkey, Flintis had imprinted on the sheep. He thought he was one of them; they were now his family. Coetzee was relieved. He did not want to get rid of his dog. Before Flintis came to the farm, the rancher had suffered huge livestock losses, many of them attributed to cheetahs. For Namibian ranchers, Cheetahs are among the most lethal of the African wildlife. Like many ranchers, Coetzee felt he had to kill cheetahs to protect his livelihood. With Flintis protecting his livestock from the cheetah, Mr. Coetzee could leave the cheetah alone.

As Flintis grew, on his own he began taking the lead position as the herd moved into the pasture. Flintis also always positioned himself downwind instinctively. Besides protecting the livestock from cheetah, Flintis proved equally effective in warding off other animals including jackals, caracals and baboons. A troupe of baboons is considered to be a serious threat as baboons are among the most fearsome creatures in Africa.

Many nights jackals came to the corral and were killed by Flintis, who would then drag the carcass to the camp gate and leave it for the owner or herder. It wasn't long before only a very few jackals visited. Also after Flintis's arrival, they had no losses due to cheetah.

One terrible afternoon in early December,1994, which in Namibia is summer with temperatures near 100 degrees a troup of around 40 baboons came near the corral. Lambs and kids are favored prey for baboons. At this time Flintis was only 20 months old and as the baboons approached Flintis moved out to confront them. The troop's two dominant males refused to back down from Flintis, who refused to back down as well. His "family" had to be protected! Outnumbered but with teeth bared, Flintis bravely faced the baboons alone. (In combat between baboons and dogs, it is believed that the dog will always be killed.)

Flintis's herder, Mattias, heard Flintis bark out a warning and then heard terrifying noises from the bush. The troup's two dominant males confronted Flintis and they began fighting. Neither the baboons nor Flintis would back down. Mattias rushed toward the horrible screaming of the baboons and Flintis's furious growls. Before he got there, ominously, there was silence.

Quickly, the herdsman rushed to alert Mr. Coetzee. Returning to the area of battle, they scanned the terrain, searching over and around thorn bushes for some sign of Flintis. Then a baboon screech rang out, signaling a renewed attack. Incredibly, the fight continued. Coetzee and Mattias ran toward the horrible sounds of battle. On the ground by a large rock they found the body of a dead male baboon. In the distance ahead they heard Flintis still locked in mortal combat.

The fight had covered over a mile in distance. The baboon's screaming and the dog's growls were terrible and horrible to hear as Mattias and Coetzee ran toward the ugly sounds. Then again there was silence. When the two men reached the scene, both animals lay silent on the ground. The second male baboon lay dead. The men were sure Flintis was dead as well. He lay apparently lifeless. His body was covered in blood. His back was laid open to the bone.

Coetzee bent down close to more carefully examine his guard dog. The damage he saw shocked him. But somehow, Flintis was alive! He was barely breathing, but he was alive. They carefully carried the wounded dog to a shady place at the corral and began tending his wounds.

For five days they administered doses of penicillin, but Flintis didn't eat or drink. Finally, on the sixth day, Flintis drank from his water bowl and ate a few mouthfuls. Eight days after the baboon attack, Flintis tried to rejoin his herd and was restrained with a nylon rope. He chewed through the restraining rope and limped over to the flock, only to collapse among them and so was tied with a chain. In a few more days they began allowing him to return to his herd and then to return to guarding them. Over time, Flintis seemed to return to his normal strength and behavior.

The CCF had already lost one guard dog to baboons, and its staff could hardly believe an Anatolian Shepherd had lived through an encounter with two of Africa's most ferocious primates. Widely reported throughout Namibia, the canine's feat encouraged other ranchers to inquire about the guard-dog program.

However, some people wondered if this baboon encounter would reduce Flintis's ability to be an effective guardian. Flintis remained an effective guardian and continued to successfully chase off predators. He remained a steadfast herd protector, creating his own livestock guardian dog legend both there and throughout the world.

In 1995 a reluctant Flintis was briefly separated from his flock, so that the CCF could introduce him to Boots, a female Anatolian shepherd. Thirteen wiggly puppies were born from this happy union, and most now guard Namibian flocks.
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Thanks Vita!
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At the old forum I posted some cases of sbt and apbt killing baboons and baboon males, I will post them again, when I have time to find them.
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221Extra
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"If we take the behaviors of other primates today, such as baboons, see the same phenomenon of day-night shifts in primate predator-clashes.Male savanna baboons bare their teeth & rush at predators during the day. Actually, there are even quite a few cases in which male baboons have killed predators. Out of eleven aggressive retaliations against leopards by baboons that are written up in scientific papers, the leopard was killed four instances.One scientist even observed a single dominant male baboon maim or kill four large dogs when they attacked his troop."

Man The Hunted: Primates, Predators, and Human Evolution

"Baboons are considered pest by most farmers. Their only natural predator is leopards. On farms where there are no leopards to control the populations they cause real damage to crops. They are also extremely dangerous, especially the large males who do lookout duty. Brandwag is the Afrikaans term, translated as “fire watchman”. They can become very brave in the presence of humans, even arrogant. They sometimes come into homes and steal food, if you corner them in the house you are in serious trouble. I had a friend who had two large pit bulls. The dogs chased a large male into a shed and the baboon killed one of the dogs and seriously maimed the other. They had to kill the baboon when it threatened the farm workers. A large male baboon can have fangs up to two inches long. "
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=27;t=000095

Graphic image of a dog killed by baboons (likely a male looking at the severity of the wounds).

"Baboons and boars are the most formidable of all foes to the dogs that hunt them-just as leopards are of all wild animals those most apt to prey on dogs. A baboon's teeth & hands are far more formidable weapons than those of any dog, & only a very few wholly exceptionally dogs of huge size, and great courage and intelligence can, single handed, contend with an old male."

African Game Trails
Edited by 221Extra, Nov 16 2012, 08:05 AM.
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(I have no idea if they are feral but they appear to be)

ADMIN - You shouldn't have posted it then. If in doubt don't post.
Edited by Taipan, Nov 17 2012, 10:03 PM.
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Everything else is just a dog.
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http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/77654185@N07/8119608621/
Photos of a baboon chasing a dog.
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It says the only natural predator of baboons are leopards. But I heard that a male baboon can kill a leopard.
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Dec 4 2012, 11:28 AM
It says the only natural predator of baboons are leopards. But I heard that a male baboon can kill a leopard.
Then you heard wrong.
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From Wildlife in South Africa by Colonel James Stevenson-Hamilton
"The most obedient dogs are with difficulty restrained from chasing a baboon troop, often with the most disastrous results to themselves; for the rearguard of big males, combining against their pursuers, and fending them off with arms and legs, while their huge sharp canines inflict terrible gashes, can hold their own against anything like equal numbers of even quite large dogs. In single combat a big plucky dog will generally dispose of a full-grown male baboon, provided that he can secure a good hold, and that the enemy's teeth do not reach the jugular or other vital spot. A baboon, when fighting, always bites and lets go at once, which places him occasionally at a disadvantage. I suppose in the Sabi reserve we lost more good dogs through these animals than by any other kind of natural enemy, except by crocodiles and snakes. Years ago, on the Zambezi, I was the owner of a large boarhound which killed a great many "old men" baboons; but he often returned from his encounters a good deal worse for wear.
The late Ranger Healy had a fine bull terrier, which, having attacked a troop single-handed, was literally torn to pieces by a combination of three or four old males. He had evidently, following his natural instinct, held fast to the one which was found lying dead beside him, whilst its companions attacked him from behind.
"
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Boerboel wounded by male Baboon:

"Sable antelope are very valuable animals and are therefore actively managed and bred on game farms. There is never a dull moment at Dr Kriel's Shimongwe Limpopo Veterinary Experience as these aspiring vet students found out. After working on sable antelope and buffalo in the field, the volunteers were back at the clinic to help Dr Kriel with an emergency caesarian operation. The four puppies all survived and looked extremely delicate in the palms of their deliverers. Another visitor to the clinic was a local South African dog called a Boerboel that had chased a troop of baboons and got bitten on it's back by one of the baboon males."

Posted Image

http://www.conservationafrica.net/news/post/101
Edited by 221Extra, Feb 13 2017, 02:36 AM.
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FelinePowah
Dec 4 2012, 05:50 PM
Asaurus
Dec 4 2012, 11:28 AM
It says the only natural predator of baboons are leopards. But I heard that a male baboon can kill a leopard.
Then you heard wrong.
Well, they don't seem to be one-on-one fights, but this (posted earlier) suggests baboons can at least kill a leopard at times.

Quote:
 
Out of eleven aggressive retaliations against leopards by baboons that are written up in scientific papers, the leopard was killed four instances
Edited by Ausar, Aug 22 2013, 09:03 PM.
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