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Baboons v Dogs; originaly Baboon intruders killed by pet dogs
Topic Started: Jan 9 2012, 06:50 PM (25,214 Views)
da pink
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221extra
Aug 22 2013, 05:35 PM
Boerboel wounded by male Baboon:

"Sable antelope are very valuable animals and are therefore actively managed and bred on game farms. There is never a dull moment at Dr Kriel's Shimongwe Limpopo Veterinary Experience as these aspiring vet students found out. After working on sable antelope and buffalo in the field, the volunteers were back at the clinic to help Dr Kriel with an emergency caesarian operation. The four puppies all survived and looked extremely delicate in the palms of their deliverers. Another visitor to the clinic was a local South African dog called a Boerboel that had chased a troop of baboons and got bitten on it's back by one of the baboon males."

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http://www.conservationafrica.net/news/post/101
That is one hell of a bite, those teeth are like knives
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predator2013
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It would take some dog to kill a male baboon, lets be honest a leopard never attacks them head on they would only ambush.
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Full Throttle
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It's threads like this that make me wonder why primates are so underrated here.

Primates are vicious fighters because they're just so frenzied, they leap at there opponents and cause lots of damage in a short space of time, just look at the wound the male chacma baboon left the Boerboel with.

Still though, as vicious as baboons are there are accounts of Boerboels and and Staffy's killing them.

And leopards would handle a baboon very well, face to face or not, a really big male chacma baboon is 45 kg whilst the average weight for male leopards in Kruger is 60 kg.

To my knowledge, all reports of leopards being killed by baboons involved a coalition of baboons, I wouldn't be so sure of the baboon if it was facing a leopard on it's own.
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Vivec
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Quote:
 
Baboon intruders killed by pet dogs

We're in the kitchen talking about the chaotic baboon situation in Tokai when we hear whistles blowing, baboons screaming and then gunshots.

A neighbour phones to say "you'd better get out there".

At the front door Fuzzy, the Alaskan malamute cross wolf, is panting furiously, his white chest covered with bright red blood.

At the bottom of the garden we find a large male baboon, dead. Deep gashes to his body indicate that he's been attacked by dogs. His long fangs are still bared, pink with blood.

It's a shocking sight.

A neighbour's Staffordshire terrier, badly injured during the fight, has already been taken to the vet. Fuzzy is unhurt. Lippies, a mixed breed dog, has two deep puncture wounds.

This is the second baboon to be killed at Diana Seewer's Tokai property in two days.

The first was on Monday afternoon.

"I was on my own when about 30 of them appeared on the property," she said. "I started chasing them away and whistled to the dogs to come and help me. They got hold of one (a small female) and attacked it.

"The male baboons were coming to help, attracted by the screams of the injured baboon. There was no way I could get the dogs off. I was terrified of being attacked."

Although her screams attracted neighbours, they couldn't get in to her enclosed property to help. The baboons were between her and the gate.

Seewer is a bundle of nerves and at her wit's end.

She and her workers, Maureen Jeffreys and Raymond Domingo, have spent the day chasing away baboons. They carry whistles to alert each other to baboons. The dogs tear up and down the garden fence chasing the baboons, who run on the other side, easily clearing the high barbed wire fences even with babies clinging to their bellies.

Seewer is worried. "The baboons tried to get into the the stable and my valuable show pony jumped out and hurt herself. I'm terrified she'll get ripped open."

She's also concerned that now her dogs have killed, they'll kill again.

Minutes after telling me this, another baboon is dead.

She is not happy with what's happening to the baboons.

"It was awful to see the savaged baboon, I couldn't look. I love animals, I rescue them.

"But I provide animals for movies, and I have got to defend them."

Baboon troubles in the Zwaanswyk Road area of Tokai started a few weeks ago, say residents, probably exacerbated by the refuse lying in the street because of the municipal workers' strike.

The baboon troop in the Tokai area is about 100 strong, and every winter it moves down from the mountains looking for food, says Dean Ferreira, manager of nature conservation for the City of Cape Town. Nature conservation is one of many bodies that sits on the baboon monitoring team mandated to find solutions to the baboon problem.

The Tokai troop traditionally foraged on the Cape Flats in winter when food is scarce. Now there is residential development in the area.

Although the Friends of Tokai Forest has baboon monitors, it is difficult for them to control baboons in this area because plots are huge and surrounded by high walls and fences and a lot of trees.

"It's a hard job, and all they get is complaints. Once the baboons enter a property, their actions are useless," says Ferreira.

"Also, people here are not baboon-oriented. They don't lock away their rubbish, they have vegetable patches, dog food is left outside, there is hay and lucerne."

Residents complain that baboons damage roofs and trash bins, and say they are scared for their children's and animals' safety.

Feelings are now running high. Crackers, catapults and gunshots are common - someone even made a flamethrower to get rid of the baboons, says Ferreira.

"And we know baboons are dying. We hear the shots."

Seewer is adamant something must be done.

"It's actually sad. The baboons can't escape, we're all chasing them into each other's property. But someone has to take control. We didn't agree to live in a conservation area. It's chaos, it's a war zone.

"We pay a lot to live here and I don't want to live like this. There are no laws, no guidelines here."

Garland Lee, who lives near Seewer, says she wants the baboons culled. "I hate them, they're all over my roof. I am disabled and can't chase them away. I'm frightened they'll kill my dogs, one of which is a champion chihuahua, so I promptly put him on a plane to Jo'burg.

"I love wildlife, but I don't want a lion in my garden."

Ferreira agrees that the interaction between baboons and human beings is out of hand. Another meeting between the baboon monitoring team and residents is being set up. A meeting two months ago in anticipation of winter problems was poorly attended.

Ferreira is adamant that killing baboons doesn't help. "As a conservationist I will not be involved in killing baboons. If we compromise on baboons, then where do we stop?"


Quote:
 
Two years ago, there were 58 listed adult male baboons – of these 23 have been killed; 13 through the implementation of the protocol, the rest through dog attacks, car accidents – and of course some shot.


http://www.baboonmatters.org.za/latest-news-views/killing-the-capes-male-baboons/


Quote:
 
Cape Town - The SPCA is investigating a case of cruelty after a resident of the Castle Rock area in the south peninsula allegedly used a nail-studded stick to beat a baboon while the animal was stretched between two dogs.

The dogs eventually released the baboon which fled into a thicket of invasive alien vegetation and could not be caught for examination.

This is one of two incidents being investigated by the SPCA.

The other involved a pit bull dog attack on the old male baboon known as Quizzy in Ocean View. Quizzy was severely injured and later put down.

“I am currently investigating both cases with a view to laying charges in terms of the Animals Protection Act,” said Cape of Good Hope SPCA wildlife unit manager Brett Glasby.

“I should have all the affidavits for the Castle Rock case from the witnesses by the end of the week. For the Ocean View case I am still attempting to find a witness who is willing to supply an affidavit. Unfortunately in that case the witnesses I have spoken to are too scared to write affidavits.”

The incidents are recorded in a report by baboon management service provider Human Wildlife Solutions.

According to the report, the baboon from the Smitswinkel Bay troop, formally known as SWB1, became involved in an altercation with a pit bull at a house after dog food had “unfortunately” been left outside.

“As the baboons had been in the area all morning, the Human Wildlife Solutions supervisor had earlier advised the owners of the house accordingly, requesting that all doors and windows be closed and the dog food be taken inside, but unfortunately the request was unheeded. Dog food is usually kept outside in the garden at this house and is a constant cause of conflict when baboons enter the garden to eat the food.”

The report noted that the pit bull had attacked the baboon and that both fell down a steep embankment, “where a second dog attacked SWB1 from the rear with the pit bull at its head. At this point the dog owner arrived and proceeded to beat the baboon with a long stick that had nails on either end”.

The dogs had finally released the baboon which fled into the thickets.

Wildlife veterinarian Hamish Currie and Human Wildlife Solutions area manager Ziggy Rode arrived to search for SWB1, but it was already very high up on the mountain when spotted and was only seen again a few days later. This incident had been reported to both the SPCA and CapeNature.

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ARM0R
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predator2013
Aug 22 2013, 10:10 PM
It would take some dog to kill a male baboon, lets be honest a leopard never attacks them head on they would only ambush.
Really? It would take some dogs to kill one baboon?

Posted Image

The injured Boerboel chased a GROUP of baboons so it was most likely not even focused on the attacker. Doesn´t prove nothing.
Male chacma baboon weigh like what? 25-30kgs? An exceptionally large specimen will weigh like 45kgs. Male Leopards weigh up to 90kgs (and are equipped with lethal claws and able to effectively use them) - so do male Boerboels (which may not have claws but the ability to tackle and ragdoll a target weighing half as much as itself). Go figure.

Baboons live in troops of like 50 individuals. That´s what gives them some power - not their oversized teeth.
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Full Throttle
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ARM0R
Aug 22 2013, 11:50 PM
predator2013
Aug 22 2013, 10:10 PM
It would take some dog to kill a male baboon, lets be honest a leopard never attacks them head on they would only ambush.
Really? It would take some dogs to kill one baboon?

Posted Image

The injured Boerboel chased a GROUP of baboons so it was most likely not even focused on the attacker. Doesn´t prove nothing.
Male chacma baboon weigh like what? 25-30kgs? An exceptionally large specimen will weigh like 45kgs. Male Leopards weigh up to 90kgs (and are equipped with lethal claws and able to effectively use them) - so do male Boerboels (which may not have claws but the ability to tackle and ragdoll a target weighing half as much as itself). Go figure.

Baboons live in troops of like 50 individuals. That´s what gives them some power - not their oversized teeth.
... What are you talking about?

Yes, a boerboel can rag a baboon around if it got a good hold of one, but the dog's size advantage didn't help it this time. Primates are so frenzied when they attack they can overwhelm opponents at the start of the fight.

And what do you mean "Baboons live in troops of like 50 individuals. That´s what gives them some power - not their oversized teeth." ?

Oh yeah, and Munfy's original comment was "it would take some dog to kill a male baboon" implying it would take a very hardy dog indeed, a statement I concur with. He didn't mean a pack of dogs would be required to get the job done.

Edited by Full Throttle, Aug 23 2013, 12:08 AM.
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da pink
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The above account describes 2 pibulls and a man with a spiked club attacking a baboon which still escaped. . . . mean sobs
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Bandog
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Aug 22 2013, 10:36 PM
It's threads like this that make me wonder why primates are so underrated here.

Primates are vicious fighters because they're just so frenzied, they leap at there opponents and cause lots of damage in a short space of time, just look at the wound the male chacma baboon left the Boerboel with.

Still though, as vicious as baboons are there are accounts of Boerboels and and Staffy's killing them.

And leopards would handle a baboon very well, face to face or not, a really big male chacma baboon is 45 kg whilst the average weight for male leopards in Kruger is 60 kg.

To my knowledge, all reports of leopards being killed by baboons involved a coalition of baboons, I wouldn't be so sure of the baboon if it was facing a leopard on it's own.
I dont think baboons are underrated like the great apes are. They've accomplished some amazing feats.
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predator2013
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Aug 22 2013, 11:50 PM
predator2013
Aug 22 2013, 10:10 PM
It would take some dog to kill a male baboon, lets be honest a leopard never attacks them head on they would only ambush.
Really? It would take some dogs to kill one baboon?

Posted Image

The injured Boerboel chased a GROUP of baboons so it was most likely not even focused on the attacker. Doesn´t prove nothing.
Male chacma baboon weigh like what? 25-30kgs? An exceptionally large specimen will weigh like 45kgs. Male Leopards weigh up to 90kgs (and are equipped with lethal claws and able to effectively use them) - so do male Boerboels (which may not have claws but the ability to tackle and ragdoll a target weighing half as much as itself). Go figure.

Baboons live in troops of like 50 individuals. That´s what gives them some power - not their oversized teeth.
rolleyes

a large Boerboel will not have the stamina to fight with a baboon I can assure you of that boy. a 45-55kg Boerboel would be your best bet for the encounter but I think most of the time a large male baboon would come out on top. Sorry to piss on your chips.
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ARM0R
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predator2013
Aug 23 2013, 01:16 AM
rolleyes

a large Boerboel will not have the stamina to fight with a baboon I can assure you of that boy. a 45-55kg Boerboel would be your best bet for the encounter but I think most of the time a large male baboon would come out on top. Sorry to piss on your chips.
Even female Boerboels commonly weigh 60+kgs of pure muscle (and DO have the stamina it takes to rag a baboon) whereas the average male chacma baboon weighs like 25kgs. It doesn´t matter how big its teeth are or how "aggressive" it is. A Boerboel would easily overwhelm and rag the baboon. How´s a baboon going to stop a charging boerboel anyways "boy"? rolleyes
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Munfy
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Aug 23 2013, 12:04 AM
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Aug 22 2013, 11:50 PM
predator2013
Aug 22 2013, 10:10 PM
It would take some dog to kill a male baboon, lets be honest a leopard never attacks them head on they would only ambush.
Really? It would take some dogs to kill one baboon?

Posted Image

The injured Boerboel chased a GROUP of baboons so it was most likely not even focused on the attacker. Doesn´t prove nothing.
Male chacma baboon weigh like what? 25-30kgs? An exceptionally large specimen will weigh like 45kgs. Male Leopards weigh up to 90kgs (and are equipped with lethal claws and able to effectively use them) - so do male Boerboels (which may not have claws but the ability to tackle and ragdoll a target weighing half as much as itself). Go figure.

Baboons live in troops of like 50 individuals. That´s what gives them some power - not their oversized teeth.
... What are you talking about?

Yes, a boerboel can rag a baboon around if it got a good hold of one, but the dog's size advantage didn't help it this time. Primates are so frenzied when they attack they can overwhelm opponents at the start of the fight.

And what do you mean "Baboons live in troops of like 50 individuals. That´s what gives them some power - not their oversized teeth." ?

Oh yeah, and Munfy's original comment was "it would take some dog to kill a male baboon" implying it would take a very hardy dog indeed, a statement I concur with. He didn't mean a pack of dogs would be required to get the job done.

Didn't think I commented in this thread lol but I agree it would take an impressive dog I've read some info on the use of hunting dogs in Africa (primarily sighthound and sighthound crosses aka lurchers) it was a pretty interesting read it talked about different sized dogs basically 3 size categorys but I'm getting off topic anyway it was said that a good baboon dog was worth it's weight in gold and even a very experienced and fit dog still had a much shorter life expectancy

The baboon dogs if I remember correctly were almost the size of Irish wolfhounds usually with some bull blood mixed in for power and robustness it was also said like you'd mentioned that baboons were frenzied in they're attacks and that it wasn't just the fangs the dog had to watch for the majority of injuries were caused by the baboons clawing indiscriminately at the offending dog
Edited by Munfy, Aug 23 2013, 03:05 AM.
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Munfy
Aug 23 2013, 03:00 AM
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Aug 23 2013, 12:04 AM
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Aug 22 2013, 11:50 PM
predator2013
Aug 22 2013, 10:10 PM
It would take some dog to kill a male baboon, lets be honest a leopard never attacks them head on they would only ambush.
Really? It would take some dogs to kill one baboon?

Posted Image

The injured Boerboel chased a GROUP of baboons so it was most likely not even focused on the attacker. Doesn´t prove nothing.
Male chacma baboon weigh like what? 25-30kgs? An exceptionally large specimen will weigh like 45kgs. Male Leopards weigh up to 90kgs (and are equipped with lethal claws and able to effectively use them) - so do male Boerboels (which may not have claws but the ability to tackle and ragdoll a target weighing half as much as itself). Go figure.

Baboons live in troops of like 50 individuals. That´s what gives them some power - not their oversized teeth.
... What are you talking about?

Yes, a boerboel can rag a baboon around if it got a good hold of one, but the dog's size advantage didn't help it this time. Primates are so frenzied when they attack they can overwhelm opponents at the start of the fight.

And what do you mean "Baboons live in troops of like 50 individuals. That´s what gives them some power - not their oversized teeth." ?

Oh yeah, and Munfy's original comment was "it would take some dog to kill a male baboon" implying it would take a very hardy dog indeed, a statement I concur with. He didn't mean a pack of dogs would be required to get the job done.

Didn't think I commented in this thread lol but I agree it would take an impressive dog I've read some info on the use of hunting dogs in Africa (primarily sighthound and sighthound crosses aka lurchers) it was a pretty interesting read it talked about different sized dogs basically 3 size categorys but I'm getting off topic anyway it was said that a good baboon dog was worth it's weight in gold and even a very experienced and fit dog still had a much shorter life expectancy

The baboon dogs if I remember correctly were almost the size of Irish wolfhounds usually with some bull blood mixed in for power and robustness it was also said like you'd mentioned that baboons were frenzied in they're attacks and that it wasn't just the fangs the dog had to watch for the majority of injuries were caused by the baboons clawing indiscriminately at the offending dog
The dogs you're referring to are "boergreyhounds". They are purpose bred south African sighthounds. There are three different types which work better on different game species.

I know exactly which article you're referring to I've read it myself, and I do recall the mentioning of the rarity of dogs that can take baboons on there own.

You must bare in mind that sighthounds are experts on killing game on the run, however they are poor fighters when you come down to it, a boerboel or a good bull terrier would stand much more of a chance face to face with a male baboon.
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Munfy
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Aug 23 2013, 03:16 AM
Munfy
Aug 23 2013, 03:00 AM
Full Throttle
Aug 23 2013, 12:04 AM
ARM0R
Aug 22 2013, 11:50 PM
predator2013
Aug 22 2013, 10:10 PM
It would take some dog to kill a male baboon, lets be honest a leopard never attacks them head on they would only ambush.
Really? It would take some dogs to kill one baboon?

Posted Image

The injured Boerboel chased a GROUP of baboons so it was most likely not even focused on the attacker. Doesn´t prove nothing.
Male chacma baboon weigh like what? 25-30kgs? An exceptionally large specimen will weigh like 45kgs. Male Leopards weigh up to 90kgs (and are equipped with lethal claws and able to effectively use them) - so do male Boerboels (which may not have claws but the ability to tackle and ragdoll a target weighing half as much as itself). Go figure.

Baboons live in troops of like 50 individuals. That´s what gives them some power - not their oversized teeth.
... What are you talking about?

Yes, a boerboel can rag a baboon around if it got a good hold of one, but the dog's size advantage didn't help it this time. Primates are so frenzied when they attack they can overwhelm opponents at the start of the fight.

And what do you mean "Baboons live in troops of like 50 individuals. That´s what gives them some power - not their oversized teeth." ?

Oh yeah, and Munfy's original comment was "it would take some dog to kill a male baboon" implying it would take a very hardy dog indeed, a statement I concur with. He didn't mean a pack of dogs would be required to get the job done.

Didn't think I commented in this thread lol but I agree it would take an impressive dog I've read some info on the use of hunting dogs in Africa (primarily sighthound and sighthound crosses aka lurchers) it was a pretty interesting read it talked about different sized dogs basically 3 size categorys but I'm getting off topic anyway it was said that a good baboon dog was worth it's weight in gold and even a very experienced and fit dog still had a much shorter life expectancy

The baboon dogs if I remember correctly were almost the size of Irish wolfhounds usually with some bull blood mixed in for power and robustness it was also said like you'd mentioned that baboons were frenzied in they're attacks and that it wasn't just the fangs the dog had to watch for the majority of injuries were caused by the baboons clawing indiscriminately at the offending dog
The dogs you're referring to are "boergreyhounds". They are purpose bred south African sighthounds. There are three different types which work better on different game species.

I know exactly which article you're referring to I've read it myself, and I do recall the mentioning of the rarity of dogs that can take baboons on there own.

You must bare in mind that sighthounds are experts on killing game on the run, however they are poor fighters when you come down to it, a boerboel or a good bull terrier would stand much more of a chance face to face with a male baboon.
Oh I completely agree the lack of sighthound blood will make for a better fighter but would still imagine it's a task most dogs wouldn't be up to maybe my view point is wrong but the way I see it when the boargreyhounds already have the baboon on the run (I'm assuming as that would be the reason for the sighthound blood) the dog already has an advantage so I think in an even fight between a boerabel or bull terrier and a baboon the dog might have the advantage of being a better fighter but at the same time it's now facing the baboon head on, but maybe I'm misunderstanding how the dogs are used in Africa so I could very well be wrong
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Scalesofanubis
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Here's the problem I think everyone is having here. Yes, a good sized dog can kill a male baboon. It is also true that a male baboon can potentially take down a dog, or even a leopard if it's having a very good day. There is an element of chance in these kinds of encounters.
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221Extra
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To my knowledge, all reports of leopards being killed by baboons involved a coalition of baboons, I wouldn't be so sure of the baboon if it was facing a leopard on it's own.

Given the size difference & considering that Baboons are highly social animals (that often engage in mob associated anti-Leopard attacks), that shouldn't be a surprise. Tho their have been an account or 2 of a duo of "old male" Baboons killing tom Leopards, which is still highly impressive & park Rangers holding the possibility that a very impressive male Leopard known as the Hilaruni male was injured by a male Baboon that he hunted/killed & after that the Leopard was never seen again. If I recall he had a big gash on his forearm. I found the source. Quite impressive if true & even if not, as it shows the high regard these Rangers (who have much experience in viewing these animals & seeing what they're capable of) hold for Baboons.

Clearly these male Baboons are a threat, given their weaponry & even larger Leopards have to be cautious in their approach to them. However, I don't give any male Baboon much of a chance face to face against the much larger mature tom Leopards, tho against the similar sized Cape Leopard, I'd be very intrigued.
Edited by 221Extra, Aug 23 2013, 03:50 PM.
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