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White Rhinoceros v African Forest Elephant
Topic Started: Jan 28 2012, 01:31 PM (22,343 Views)
Taipan
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White Rhinoceros - Ceratotherium simum
The White Rhinoceros or Square-lipped rhinoceros (Ceratotherium simum) is one of the five species of rhinoceros that still exist. It has a wide mouth used for grazing and is the most social of all rhino species. White Rhinoceroses are found in grassland and savannah habitat. Herbivore grazers that eat grass, preferring the shortest grains, the White Rhinoceros is one of the largest pure grazers. White Rhinoceroses produce sounds which include a panting contact call, grunts and snorts during courtship, squeals of distress, and deep bellows or growls when threatened. Threat displays (in males mostly) include wiping its horn on the ground and a head-low posture with ears back, combined with snarl threats and shrieking if attacked. The White Rhinoceros is quick and agile and can run 50 km/h (31 mph). The White Rhinoceros is the world's largest land mammal after the three species of elephant. It has a massive body and large head, a short neck and broad chest. The head and body length is 3.4 to 4.2 m (11 to 14 ft), with the tail adding another 37 to 71 cm (15 to 28 in). Shoulder height is 1.5 to 2 m (4 ft 10 in to 6 ft 7 in). Weight in this animal typically ranges from 1,360 to 3,630 kg (3,000 to 8,000 lb). The male, averaging 2,300 kg (5,100 lb) is slightly heavier than the female, at an average of 1,700 kg (3,700 lb). The largest recorded White Rhinoceros was about 4,500 kg (9,900 lb). On its snout it has two horn-like growths, one behind the other. These are made of solid keratin, in which they differ from the horns of bovids (cattle and their relatives), which are keratin with a bony core, and deer antlers, which are solid bone. The front horn is larger and averages 90 cm (35 in) in length, reaching as much as 150 cm (59 in).

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African Forest Elephant - Loxodonta cyclotis
The African Forest Elephant (Loxodonta cyclotis) is a forest dwelling elephant of the Congo Basin. Formerly considered either a synonym or a subspecies of the African Savanna Elephant (Loxodonta africana), a 2010 study established that the two are distinct species. These forest-dwelling elephants are smaller and darker than their savanna relatives and have smaller and characteristically rounded ears. The upper lip and nose are elongated into a trunk that is more hairy than that of the savanna elephants'. The male African Forest Elephant rarely exceed 2.5 metres (8 ft) in height, while the African Bush Elephant is usually over 3 meters (just under 10 feet) and sometimes almost 4 meters (13 ft) tall. With regard to the number of toenails: the African Bush Elephant normally has 4 toenails on the frontfoot and 3 on the hindfoot, the African Forest Elephant normally has 5 toenails on the frontfoot and 4 on the hindfoot (like the Asian elephant), but hybrids between the two species occur.
Male shoulder height: up to 2.5 m
Weight 2.7 - 6 tonnes

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Gregoire
 
African Forest elephant vs White rhino
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Replies:
221Extra
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Deny, deny, deny.
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Prehistoric Cat
Jan 29 2012, 06:45 PM
221extra
Jan 29 2012, 06:42 PM
Prehistoric Cat
Jan 29 2012, 05:15 PM
221extra
Jan 29 2012, 04:54 PM
The White Rhino wins for me & here is why:

The forest elephant is shorter on average then the african bull elephant, even according to wikipedia which does have sources to back up what it claims that african forest elephants rarely exceed 8ft in height so the height advantage is not sufficient enough for the elephant to win same case scenario with the weigh advantage.
The white rhinoceros bull is 6ft at the shoulder while the horn which can be up to 4ft certainly cancels out any height advantage. And if these two clash the mass and acceleration of the white rhinoceros plus it's greater stability times the mass and acceleration of the elephant which is rather unstable in running for a distance. Would result either in a gore to the elephant's chest even possibly throat or the elephant falling do to the fact that it's less stable on it's legs. Anyways the African bush elephant bull beats all rhinos the other three do not.
I think a 6,000kg African Forest Elephant would be big for a White Rhinoceros.
At parity, I think the White Rhinoceros would defeat the elephant.


I'd argue weight isn't as big an issue in this contest, the main reason that the White Rhinoceros is so easily killed by the African Bush Elephant is because the Elephant is so much taller, but in this contest the height difference isn't significant enough to ensure victory for the Elephant.
I don't think that think 6000kg elephant would less than 2.5m tall.
Their is a difference between what you think & what is fact, almost every source I've seen states that African Forest Elephants usually don't get taller then 8ft.

"The forest elephants look very different from savanna elephants. For one thing, they are smaller and stockier than savanna elephants. Forest elephant males only get to be about 8 feet in height"
Source
"The male African Forest Elephant rarely exceeds 2.5 metres (8 ft) in height, while the African Bush Elephant is usually over 3 metres (just under 10 feet) and sometimes almost 4 metres (13 ft) tall."
Source
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Apex
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elephant wins for me tusks and size
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Megafelis Fatalis
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I think 221extra was right
Here is a size comparison
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Taurus
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221extra has forget about the elephants involving in rhino murders weren't fullgrown bulls as majority of elephants involved were teenager bulls.
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221Extra
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Taurus
Jan 30 2012, 02:56 AM
221extra has forget about the elephants involving in rhino murders weren't fullgrown bulls as majority of elephants involved were teenager bulls.


They still likely had a huge size advantage over the Rhinoceros & were likely much bigger then the Forest Elephant as well.
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DinosaurMichael
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normally Elephants beat Rhinos but only because it's bigger. Since both are close to the same size. I'm giving this to the Rhino.
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Gregoire
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I think that still at parity male elephant beat male rhino 60/40. Elephant has more weapons and has better IQ.
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221extra
Jan 29 2012, 04:54 PM
The White Rhino wins for me & here is why:

The forest elephant is shorter on average then the african bull elephant, even according to wikipedia which does have sources to back up what it claims that african forest elephants rarely exceed 8ft in height so the height advantage is not sufficient enough for the elephant to win same case scenario with the weigh advantage.
The white rhinoceros bull is 6ft at the shoulder while the horn which can be up to 4ft certainly cancels out any height advantage. And if these two clash the mass and acceleration of the white rhinoceros plus it's greater stability times the mass and acceleration of the elephant which is rather unstable in running for a distance. Would result either in a gore to the elephant's chest even possibly throat or the elephant falling do to the fact that it's less stable on it's legs. Anyways the African bush elephant bull beats all rhinos the other three do not.
I mostly agree with you. I believe you are overrating an elephant's instability due to its long legs. The book, Elephants: a cultural and natural history shows the remarkable leg strength and sure-footedness of the pachyderm. They can navigate mountainous terrain or be trained to stand on bottles (on their front legs with back legs raised in the air)

However as you said- the elephant lacks good height advantage because the 4 ft horn cancels it out. Back at the old carnivora, a user posted accounts of Indian Rhino seriously mauling and killing asian elephants. African Rhinos have much longer sharper horns than asian rhinos while Forest Elephants are smaller than Indian elephants.

These and all the reasons you stated plus the height comparisons chart convinces me the rhino will steal the victory 6/10
In many ways the Rhino is worthy of the title, King of the Beasts. What animal will dare approach a dominant rhino bull in a confrontational manner?
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221Extra
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Gregoire
Feb 12 2012, 05:17 PM
I think that still at parity male elephant beat male rhino 60/40. Elephant has more weapons and has better IQ.
The elephant has tusks vs the rhino's horn, how does it have more weapons?

And BTW I didn't realize that they were going to play a game of chess?  :-/

Nothing00 I believe I posted the account you're referring, here it is:
Quote:
 
The following note on the Great Indian rhinoceros appeared in the United Services Journal, November, 1849. Though it bears out Mr. Shebbeare's opinion, given in the last Oryx, that in general this rhinoceros uses his 'tushes' not his horn in attack, it does also suggest that the horn may sometimes be of use as a secondary weapon. The writer is identified only as ' T. S. ' It appears that he was some twenty years in India and was assistant resident in Nepal under Brian Hodgson, when that distinguished naturalist was resident there. Commissioned to kill a rogue elephant, ' T. S. ' also killed many deer, eleven tigers and seven rhinoceroses ' evidently fauna needed, or at least received, little preservation in those days. It was the seventh of these rhinoceroses which assaulted the elephant of T.S.'s companion, Sirdar Delhi Sing. On being charged, 'the elephant immediately turned tail and bolted, but the rhinoceros was too quick for him, came up to the elephant in a few strides and with his tusks cut the fugitive so severely on the stern, nearly severing his tail, that he attempted to lie down under the pain. But the rhinoceros was again too quick for him, and bringing his horn into play (my italics), he introduced it under the elephant's flank; the horn tightened the skin and then with his two frightful tusks he cut the poor animal so severely that his entrails came rolling about his legs as he fell, undergoing the dreadful assaults of his antagonist.' At this point ' T. S. ' shot the rhinoceros; he would then have shot the wounded elephant also, but its mahout dissuaded him, and the animal died in two hours.
Glover, R., 1956. Weapons of the Great Indian rhinoceros. Oryx 3 (4): 197


But as for your opinion on the elephant leg strength I posted an article back on the old carnivora, stating how the elephant's leg strength is really unsuitable for it charging long distances & the fact that it's leg bone strength/stability is really inferior to the rhinoceros'. I'll try & relocate it as soon as possible.
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Gregoire
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221extra, Elephant have TWO longer tusks and trunk.
IQ can be used not only for playing chess. Its not human IQ, its animal IQ.
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Yup that's the account I was talking about. If an Indian Rhino with its short horn can cut open an elephant's stomach, it is frightening to think the damage a White rhino's 4 foot horn can do.

I can't argue with your second statement. A rhino's legs will allow it to turn, maneuver, and charge faster than the elephant as well as run for longer distances.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2yed9j_OSU Rhino manages to keep up with the jeep for quite a while.
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Gregoire
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Elephants seems best pound-for-pound non-carnivora fighters
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yigit05
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african forest elephant size avantage,canine teeth
rhino big horn
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Gregoire
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elephant wins!
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jj5893
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Elephant takes this.
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