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| Lion Coalition of 3 v Pleistocene Polar Bear | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 30 2012, 08:01 PM (8,559 Views) | |
| Taipan | Jan 30 2012, 08:01 PM Post #1 |
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Lion Coalition of 3 - Panthera leo The lion (Panthera leo) is one of the four big cats in the genus Panthera, and a member of the family Felidae. With some males exceeding 250 kg (550 lb) in weight, it is the second-largest living cat after the tiger. Wild lions currently exist in Sub-Saharan Africa and in Asia with an endangered remnant population in Gir Forest National Park in India, having disappeared from North Africa and Southwest Asia in historic times. Until the late Pleistocene, about 10,000 years ago, the lion was the most widespread large land mammal after humans. They were found in most of Africa, across Eurasia from western Europe to India, and in the Americas from the Yukon to Peru. The lion is a vulnerable species, having seen a possibly irreversible population decline of thirty to fifty percent over the past two decades in its African range. The African lion is a very large cat, with males weighing between 330 and 550 pounds and females weighing between 260 and 400 pounds. It is 8 to 10 feet long, not including the tail. Its most famous feature is its mane, which only male lions have. The mane is a yellow color when the lion is young and darkens with age. Eventually, the mane will be dark brown. The body of the African lion is well suited for hunting. It is very muscular, with back legs designed for pouncing and front legs made for grabbing and knocking down prey. It also has very strong jaws that enable it to eat the large prey that it hunts. ![]() Pleistocene Polar Bear - Ursus maritimus tyrannus Ursus maritimus tyrannus was a very large fossil subspecies of the polar bear that descended from an Arctic population of brown bears. Its name in Latin means Tyrant Sea Bear. Initially the isolated brown bears were no different than the variations of brown bears of that time period. Because litters of cubs can show significant species variations in hair color and hair thickness, this gave certain individuals a survival advantage passed on each generation. Eventually skull changes and even changes in dentition occurred leading to the smooth and rather quick evolution of U. maritimus tyrannus. U. maritimus tyrannus was considerably larger then its modern relative. If everything is scaled out correctly from its remains, it would had been 183 cm (6 ft) at the shoulders, 3,6 m (12 ft) long and would have weighted an average of 1.2 tons, making it the largest bear "and one of the largest mammalian carnivores to ever walk on land". Its tremendous size makes it even bigger than the other "largest" mammalian carnivores that ever lived, including Andrewsarchus, Agriotherium, and Arctodus simus. It's speculated that this gigantic bear would, due to its formidable size and strength, have preyed on mammoths which also lived during the time. ![]() _______________________________________________________________________
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| Molosser | Dec 7 2013, 03:32 AM Post #16 |
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Ursids, Canids, and amphycionids
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Even the polar bear of today is 700 kg and weights of 800 kg are not uncommon, all sources state that the pleistocene polar bear was larger not smaller so I don't believe this and this isn't a mismatch it's a close call |
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| Sci Fyena | Dec 7 2013, 07:51 AM Post #17 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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I made the mistake of voting for the lions before looking at the size comparison. Yikes! That is one impressive bear.
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| Vivyx | Dec 8 2013, 03:36 AM Post #18 |
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Felines, sharks, birds, arthropods
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| Vivyx | Dec 8 2013, 03:36 AM Post #19 |
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Felines, sharks, birds, arthropods
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Inaccurate size comparison.
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| Sci Fyena | Dec 8 2013, 03:41 AM Post #20 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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Could someone please post an accurate size comparison for the polar bear? |
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| Bob5 | Feb 13 2014, 06:50 AM Post #21 |
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Autotrophic Organism
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Is this new information or something that was just recently discovered? So your saying that this bear was smaller than the average polar bear??! |
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| Ausar | Feb 13 2014, 07:02 AM Post #22 |
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Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
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It seems based on the analysis of the members here. I don't see a reason as to why they're wrong, as they bring up an intelligent, scientific argument. 3 lions combined are 87.5% heavier than the bear (250*3=750. 750/400=1.875-1=0.875*100=87.5), they should win easily based on these numbers. Hell, even 2 would be enough to surpass the bear's weight by 25%. |
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| blaze | Feb 13 2014, 07:30 AM Post #23 |
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Carnivore
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It's not new information, 1.2 tonnes, 1.8m+ tall are baseless exaggerations, the ulna is long but rather gracile for its length and its not gigantic either, 48.5cm is the estimated length, and it falls short of the ulnae of big Arctodus and Arctotherium specimens, the publication that described the bone (Kurten 1964 not 1988 like a said before) said it was big for a subadult polar bear and it was only compared to subadult polar bears. ![]() The 400kg that I mentioned was a guesstimate based on how tall it ended up with comparisons like the above. |
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| Ausar | Feb 13 2014, 09:05 AM Post #24 |
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Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
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That looks like a really slender neck for bear standards (at least from what I know). Makes me believe that getting to and biting the throat seems like a relatively easy task. |
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| blaze | Feb 13 2014, 09:34 AM Post #25 |
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Carnivore
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It does look that way but it's my fault, I made it too skinny I think. |
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| Asadas | Feb 14 2014, 03:51 AM Post #26 |
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Herbivore
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The polar was was big, and Kurten was quoted. From an analysis of the bone, Kurten determined from the Pleistocene polar bear, like other mammals of the time, was much larger than the present-day form... Polar bear cheek teeth became smaller and more jagged as an adaptation to life as a carnivore..In comparison, the cheek teeth of the grizzly are larger but flatter and smoother for grinding the vegetation that forms the bulk of its diet.....the canines of the polar bear have become larger and sharper for tearing seals apart...The stockier claw of the polar bear is probably less likely to bend or break under strain when its possessor is running on ice or climbing steep banks. Although the modern polar bears are smaller than Pleistocene ancestors,...Pleistocene polar bears were larger than today's.Adult males may weight from about 350 to 650 kg..Bears are said to be smaller in the area or Svalbard and become larger as one progesses west to the Bering sea. ..Their larger size and strength came about more for protection than for predation...their limbering gait is not suited for chasing prey. http://books.google.com/books?id=ViOiGWPQRjIC&pg=PA22&lpg=PA22&dq=cave+bears+vs+polar+bears&source=bl&ots=3KiF7Z3BEJ&sig=zW8phYKKny8sdwXhZ7J0L0Enxao&hl=en&sa=X&ei=lAj9UrHyIO7KsQTLp4GYCw&ved=0CHwQ6AEwDA#v=onepage&q=cave%20bears%20vs%20polar%20bears&f=false http://www.bearbiology.com/fileadmin/tpl/Downloads/URSUS/Vol_10/MattsonB_Vol_10.pdf Assuming they were big, this is a fair match. |
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| Bob5 | Feb 14 2014, 07:29 AM Post #27 |
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Autotrophic Organism
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But just a little while ago, the Pleistocene polar bear was said to weigh 2,600 lbs on this forum |
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| blaze | Feb 14 2014, 08:00 AM Post #28 |
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Carnivore
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Not everyone sees my posts and the OP has never been updated to show a more reasonable mass. |
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| Tyrannoceratospinosaurus Rex | Feb 19 2014, 04:21 AM Post #29 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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Lions win IMO |
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