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| Pleistocene Polar Bear v Daeodon | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 31 2012, 02:50 PM (19,502 Views) | |
| Taipan | Jan 31 2012, 02:50 PM Post #1 |
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Pleistocene Polar Bear - Ursus maritimus tyrannus Ursus maritimus tyrannus was a very large fossil subspecies of the polar bear that descended from an Arctic population of brown bears. Its name in Latin means Tyrant Sea Bear. Initially the isolated brown bears were no different than the variations of brown bears of that time period. Because litters of cubs can show significant species variations in hair color and hair thickness, this gave certain individuals a survival advantage passed on each generation. Eventually skull changes and even changes in dentition occurred leading to the smooth and rather quick evolution of U. maritimus tyrannus. U. maritimus tyrannus was considerably larger then its modern relative. If everything is scaled out correctly from its remains, it would had been 183 cm (6 ft) at the shoulders, 3,6 m (12 ft) long and would have weighted an average of 1.2 tons, making it the largest bear "and one of the largest mammalian carnivores to ever walk on land". Its tremendous size makes it even bigger than the other "largest" mammalian carnivores that ever lived, including Andrewsarchus, Agriotherium, and Arctodus simus. It's speculated that this gigantic bear would, due to its formidable size and strength, have preyed on mammoths which also lived during the time. ![]() Daeodon shoshonensis Daeodon, one of the largest, if not the largest, entelodont artiodactyls, lived 25-18 million years ago in North America. The 3.6 m (12 ft) long, about 1.8 m at the shoulder, 90 cm long skulled, 600 - 1000 kg mass animal strongly resembled a giant, monstrous pig or warthog, possessing huge jaws with prominent tusks and flaring cheekbones. It possibly was a huge, bone-crushing scavenger and predator, found at Agate Springs Quarry. It had long skull bones under its eyes and bony protrusions on the lower jaw, not dissimilar to the 'warts' of the warthog, which may have supported jaw muscles. The well-known genus Dinohyus ("terrible pig") has now been synonymized with Daeodon, as the latter is the earlier name, having priority. ![]() ___________________________________________________________________
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| DarkGricer | Feb 1 2012, 06:41 AM Post #16 |
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Omnivore
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Nevermind what I said. The Bear's head is in the right area to be bitten, and crushed. Daeodon wins 60% of the time. Edited by Taipan, Feb 1 2012, 08:11 PM.
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| DarkGricer | Feb 1 2012, 06:54 AM Post #17 |
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Omnivore
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Looking at it's neck muscles, it looks like it could actualy do so quite easly. |
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| Mack | Feb 1 2012, 06:58 AM Post #18 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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We should take into consideration that bears look larger/wider when looking from the front-side. |
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| Mack | Feb 1 2012, 08:09 AM Post #19 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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@ Prehistoric Cat UMT was part of the brown bear species it was esstentialy a brown bear subspecies. Can you put this image instedd of the polar bear?
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| 1futuremarine1 | Feb 1 2012, 03:47 PM Post #20 |
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Autotrophic Organism
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Daedon 7/10 Just looking at the sizes of both animals, and the size comparisons, I feel as though the fight will come down to a bite vs bite fight, and the daedons bite is terrifying. Edited by Taipan, Feb 1 2012, 08:12 PM.
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| Megafelis Fatalis | Feb 1 2012, 06:03 PM Post #21 |
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Carnivore
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I will try |
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| Megafelis Fatalis | Feb 1 2012, 06:30 PM Post #22 |
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Carnivore
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@ Mack
Edited by Taipan, Feb 1 2012, 08:13 PM.
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| Mack | Feb 1 2012, 10:19 PM Post #23 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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Thanks! Anyway for the same dimensions I feel that brown bears are more massive then polar bears. UMT, which certainly was a brown bear would probably out-weight Daeodon based on the size-comparision. The jaws of the bear aint that small, probabley around 70 cm, and if someone look at limbs, the bears limbs is much thicker. The bears more superior mobility would give it the upper-hand in this match-up. Anyway i feel very strongly that UMT in that size-comparision is about the same size as Arctotherium. Based on that scale I think it would be much heavier then 1200 kg. Edited by Mack, Feb 1 2012, 10:21 PM.
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| DinosaurMichael | Feb 1 2012, 10:22 PM Post #24 |
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Apex Predator
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Mack didn't they confirm that it was a Polar Bear or was this recently found out it was a Brown Bear? Just curious. That's all. |
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| Mack | Feb 1 2012, 10:34 PM Post #25 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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I remember that even two years ago I changed the false information in Wikipedia and I stated that it was a brown bear subspecies or a very large brown based on the evidence and i provided a link with the evidence. However they have changed the information again into a false one. So to answear your question, no it has been known for a while that UMT was a brown bear but many have ignored that fact.
Edited by Mack, Feb 1 2012, 10:35 PM.
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| DinosaurMichael | Feb 1 2012, 10:36 PM Post #26 |
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Apex Predator
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Oh okay then. I never knew about that. Thanks for telling me. |
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| Apex | Feb 2 2012, 01:28 AM Post #27 |
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Omnivore
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mack just a question what is the evidence of it being a brown bear? id ust like to know thanks in advance |
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| Mack | Feb 2 2012, 06:14 AM Post #28 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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Well first we have to consider that modern polar bears diverged from the brown bears first 150,000 years ago. The oldest known polar bear fossil is a 130,000- 110,000 years old jaw-bone which was found on Prince Charles Foreland (in 2004). The name of the species is Ursus Maritimus Phipps and it was similar in size to modern polar bears http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1751-8369.2008.00087.x/abstract Ursus Maritimus Tyrannus remains was older about 250,000 years ago. So it really couldn´t be a large polar bear, since it was older then the first polar bears. |
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| DarkGricer | Feb 2 2012, 07:53 AM Post #29 |
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Omnivore
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As far as we know... I mean, heck, we tought Eoraptor was the first ever Dinosaur. Turns out it's not. We think we know so much, but we don't. So what do we know? |
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| Mack | Feb 2 2012, 09:07 AM Post #30 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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In any case it was still not a polar bear. The Kew Bridge find is special in that it is an ulna of a very large animal, considerably larger than present-day polar bears. Kurtén (1964) assigned it to a polar bear subspecies, Ursus maritimus tyrannus. The Kew Bridge specimen has recently been reinvestigated by scientists at London’s Natural History Museum, and they are now confident that the Kew animal was a type of brown bear, U. arctos (Andy Currant, pers. comm. 2008). The finds from Nordcemgrotta were radiocarbon dated to 39–42 Ky B.P., and a 230Th/234U dating of calcareous concretions in the laminated sediments above the sedimentary horizon containing the fossil polar bear bones assigned them a minimum age of 70 8.5 Ky B.P. (Lauritzen et al. 1996). Source: Late Pleistocene fossil find in Svalbard: the oldest remains of a polar bear (Ursus maritimus Phipps, 1744) ever discovered |
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