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| Giganotosaurus carolinii v Tyrannosaurus rex | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 31 2012, 05:48 PM (110,337 Views) | |
| Taipan | Jan 31 2012, 05:48 PM Post #1 |
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Giganotosaurus carolinii Giganotosaurus ("giant southern lizard"), was a carcharodontosaurid dinosaur that lived 93 to 89 million years ago during the Turonian stage of the Late Cretaceous period. It is one of the longest known terrestrial carnivores, bigger than Tyrannosaurus, but in length and weight, smaller than Spinosaurus. Although longer than T. rex, G. carolinii was lighter and had a much smaller braincase that was the size and shape of a banana. A well-developed olfactory region means it probably had a good sense of smell. Titanosaur fossils have been recovered near the remains of Giganotosaurus, leading to speculation that these carnivores may have preyed on the giant herbivores. Fossils of related carcharodontosaurid fossils grouped closely together may indicate pack hunting, a behavior that could possibly extend to Giganotosaurus itself. he holotype specimen's (MUCPv-Ch1) skeleton was about 70% complete and included parts of the skull, a lower jaw, pelvis, hindlimbs and most of the backbone. The premaxillae, jugals, quadratojugals, the back of the lower jaws and the forelimbs are missing. Various estimates find that it measured somewhere between 12.2 and 13 m (40 and 43 ft) in length, and between 6.5 and 13.3 tons in weight. A second, more fragmentary, specimen (MUCPv-95) has also been identified, found in 1987 by Jorge Calvo. It is only known from the front part of the left dentary which is 8% larger than the equivalent bone from the holotype. This largest Giganotosaurus specimen is estimated to represent an individual with a skull length of 195 cm (6.40 ft), compared to the holotype's estimated at 1.80 m (5.9 ft) skull, making it likely that Giganotosaurus had the largest skull of any known theropod. Giganotosaurus surpassed Tyrannosaurus in mass by at least half a ton (the upper size estimate for T. rex is 9.1 t). Additionally several single teeth, discovered from 1987 onwards, have been referred to the species. ![]() Tyrannosaurus rex Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago. It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes. ![]() ______________________________________________________________________________
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| G-Rex | May 16 2014, 01:20 PM Post #271 |
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Unicellular Organism
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I'm just joined recently And Greetings to all senpai (senior)in this forum In this fight I support Giganoto because 1. It have advantage in agility 2. It has speed 31 mph 3. It has tenacity because Giganoto prey is mighty Big long head herbivore such Argentinosaurus last quality of predator is determine by quality of its prey so the prey of giganoto is mighty Big long head herbivore such Argentinosaurus so you can determine the quality of this beast this the data from live livescience.com ![]() But I don't deny that T-rex could has a chance to take down giganoto So for me 60-40 for giganoto so in the end I'm sorry for my inexperienced because I'm a newbie hre Edited by G-Rex, May 16 2014, 07:57 PM.
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| Naronu | May 16 2014, 01:28 PM Post #272 |
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Apex Predator
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the 31mph sounds very unlikely but everything else is pretty accurate. |
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| TheMechaBaryonyx789 | May 16 2014, 03:42 PM Post #273 |
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Herbivore
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What do you mean by, 'determine the quality'? Also the prey is not a valid factor in a hypothetical fight like this, these irrational animals will not be using hunting experience to their advantage. |
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| G-Rex | May 16 2014, 05:58 PM Post #274 |
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Unicellular Organism
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lets make a bit analogy an adult lion in his max size but grow in the zoo is much less tough than an adult lion same size but rise in wild the wild lion has more fighting experience with mighty herbivore such giraffe, zebra even bull so if this two king of jungle met and have clash you can see who is the winner so you can see which is more have quality This not about this animal have a small brain or not but the fighting experience build the instinct of fighting this animal not hunting by thought but by instinct Edited by G-Rex, May 16 2014, 08:04 PM.
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| Jinfengopteryx | May 16 2014, 11:41 PM Post #275 |
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Aspiring paleontologist, science enthusiast and armchair speculative fiction/evolution writer
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Why does it have the prey advantage? Andesaurus may be larger than Triceratops, but I doubt it was that much harder prey. |
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| G-Rex | May 17 2014, 01:37 AM Post #276 |
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Unicellular Organism
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Because from what I read in book or in natural science site about correlation between predator and pray' that the more though prey the predator must have more tenacity. And tenacity is predator asset in fighting another predator Andesaurus n argentinosaurus is by paleontologist is considered as a mighty herbivore. when before giganotosaurus has discovered paleontologist have question what if Tyrano meet these beast ? (I got that question from BBC wild life) but that question answered by discovery of giganotosaurus another theropod predator so from the paleontologist said that Andesaurus n argentinosaurus mighty herbivore so you can take that Andesaurus n argentinosaurus is very tough prey And like I said before the more though prey the predator must have more tenacity I don't deny that Triceratops has own difficulty to take down, like Triceratops had thick skin so that make its predator Tyranosaurus develop teeth and jaws plus power force advantage But overall Andesaurus n argentinosaurus is more tough than Triceratops and that makes Giganoto has more tenacity |
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| Jinfengopteryx | May 17 2014, 02:50 AM Post #277 |
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Aspiring paleontologist, science enthusiast and armchair speculative fiction/evolution writer
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First of all, there is no evidence that Argentinosaurus and Giganotosaurus coexisted. Secondly, if someone said Andesaurus is a mighty herbivore, this is rather meaningless, as mighty is relative. An 18 m Sauropod is not really that mighty to me (relatively). As for prey/predator generally, this is a fallacy. Jaguars don't hunt as large prey as some other wild cats, yet they surely can handle a cougar or a leopard. Also, wolves can take larger prey than cougars (even alone, there is an account of a single wolf killing a sick bison cow) and guess who would win in a battle? It is simply not relevant in a fight between two theropods who has the larger prey. |
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| TheMechaBaryonyx789 | May 17 2014, 07:56 AM Post #278 |
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Herbivore
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Why are you using extant mammals as a comparison to dinosaurs? Their fighting aspects are obviously going to be different. If your logic worked, then an Argentinosaurus would be completely helpless due to the fact its main diet was vegetation. Fighting ability is only determined by the physical aspects of two large theropods, their prey items are irrelevant. Also Mapusaurus coexisted with Argentinosaurus, not Giganotosaurus. WWD isn't exactly the most reliable source. And 'quality' isn't the best terminology to use in this context. |
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| G-Rex | May 17 2014, 08:38 AM Post #279 |
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Unicellular Organism
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1. All scientist agree that argentinosaurus and giganyosaurus exist together at early Cenomanian age of the Late Cretaceous Period, approximately some 100 to 97 million years ago in the land now called patagonia and for info another dino which had lived in the same place open this link http://www.interpatagonia.com/paleontologia/hallazgos_i.html This link is web of paleontologist progress report about dino which live in patagonia when mammals don't exist 2. About the size of Andesaurus Delgadoi see picture bellow ![]() so this dino is prey of giganoto 3. if you can see the size of number two so you can see the tenacity of giganoto. Then the success of winning the two predator is depend of its instinct, and its instinct build by its battle experience What giganoto battle experience - battle vs prey (such Andesaurus Delgadoi which size like above ) - Battle vs another predator Another predator such - Carnotaurus Sastrei length = 10 m predator - Amargasaurus Cazaui length = 9 m predator - Piatnitzkysaurus Floresi length = 5 m predator So with such hard life make giganoto had better battle experience that sharpen its instinct and make giganoto more "veteran combatant" than tyrano in the end I want to say my first post data is based of Livescience.com and data in Livescience.com is based of NATURAL HISTORY MUSEUM LONDON
Ok if you deny Argentinosaurus lets change with Andesaurus Delgadoi you think giganoto is dumb ? giganto is hunting in pack so the live with social interaction with its group and to take down Andesaurus Delgadoi in pack must fight with a bit strategy and because its hunting pack and social relation with pack scientist start to doubt this dino is completely dumb because its size of brain but giganto social pack mean there is a bit intelligence in giganto so my logic about battle experience can aplly Edited by G-Rex, May 17 2014, 09:25 AM.
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| Naronu | May 17 2014, 09:20 AM Post #280 |
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Apex Predator
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Amargasaurus is not a predator... |
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| TheMechaBaryonyx789 | May 17 2014, 05:02 PM Post #281 |
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Herbivore
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What? Since when did I say Giganotosaurus was 'dumb'? I didn't even mention intelligence in that post, due to it not being a relevant factor. Evolution is not a ladder. I have already provided an example for why fighting experience and the prey/diet of an animal are not valid factors. The physical aspects of animal determines its fighting ability in these kinds of hypothetical fights. Edited by TheMechaBaryonyx789, May 17 2014, 05:06 PM.
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| Jinfengopteryx | May 17 2014, 07:39 PM Post #282 |
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Aspiring paleontologist, science enthusiast and armchair speculative fiction/evolution writer
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They don't. http://www.geol.umd.edu/~tholtz/dinoappendix/HoltzappendixWinter2011.pdf At least Holtz doubts this. He gives a range of 100 to 97 million years for Gignaotosaurus and 97 to 93.5 mya for Argentinosaurus. It is possible that they coexisted (I could live with it if someone brought both together in some fictive scenarios, i.e. a documentary), but it is simply no solid fact and I would be careful with using it as an argument. They did not all coexist with Giganotosaurus, I suggest looking at the time numbers your source gives. Sorry, but there is no support for that dino being 30 m long.
Nope, read your source again, it only said they also lived in Patagonia, but gave different numbers (like 165 mya for Piatnitzkysaurus). This is like saying Tyrannosaurus coexisted with Allosaurus because both were found in North America. Carnotaurus lived later than Giganotosaurus, see Holtz's dinosaur list I linked above. |
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| theropod | May 17 2014, 08:56 PM Post #283 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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Did that guy just claim Amargasaurus was a predator? |
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| Jinfengopteryx | May 18 2014, 02:36 AM Post #284 |
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Aspiring paleontologist, science enthusiast and armchair speculative fiction/evolution writer
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He did, but Naronu already replied and I didn't want to parrot him. |
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| vegetarian | May 28 2014, 12:57 AM Post #285 |
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Herbivore
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50/50 |
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