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Giganotosaurus carolinii v Tyrannosaurus rex
Topic Started: Jan 31 2012, 05:48 PM (110,337 Views)
Taipan
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Giganotosaurus carolinii
Giganotosaurus ("giant southern lizard"), was a carcharodontosaurid dinosaur that lived 93 to 89 million years ago during the Turonian stage of the Late Cretaceous period. It is one of the longest known terrestrial carnivores, bigger than Tyrannosaurus, but in length and weight, smaller than Spinosaurus. Although longer than T. rex, G. carolinii was lighter and had a much smaller braincase that was the size and shape of a banana. A well-developed olfactory region means it probably had a good sense of smell. Titanosaur fossils have been recovered near the remains of Giganotosaurus, leading to speculation that these carnivores may have preyed on the giant herbivores. Fossils of related carcharodontosaurid fossils grouped closely together may indicate pack hunting, a behavior that could possibly extend to Giganotosaurus itself. he holotype specimen's (MUCPv-Ch1) skeleton was about 70% complete and included parts of the skull, a lower jaw, pelvis, hindlimbs and most of the backbone. The premaxillae, jugals, quadratojugals, the back of the lower jaws and the forelimbs are missing. Various estimates find that it measured somewhere between 12.2 and 13 m (40 and 43 ft) in length, and between 6.5 and 13.3 tons in weight. A second, more fragmentary, specimen (MUCPv-95) has also been identified, found in 1987 by Jorge Calvo. It is only known from the front part of the left dentary which is 8% larger than the equivalent bone from the holotype. This largest Giganotosaurus specimen is estimated to represent an individual with a skull length of 195 cm (6.40 ft), compared to the holotype's estimated at 1.80 m (5.9 ft) skull, making it likely that Giganotosaurus had the largest skull of any known theropod. Giganotosaurus surpassed Tyrannosaurus in mass by at least half a ton (the upper size estimate for T. rex is 9.1 t). Additionally several single teeth, discovered from 1987 onwards, have been referred to the species.

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Tyrannosaurus rex
Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago. It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes.

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Prehistoric Cat
Jan 31 2012, 04:53 PM
Giganotosaurus VS Tyrannosaurus
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G-Rex
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I'm just joined recently
And Greetings to all senpai (senior)in this forum
In this fight I support Giganoto because

1. It have advantage in agility
2. It has speed 31 mph
3. It has tenacity because Giganoto prey is mighty Big long head herbivore such Argentinosaurus

last quality of predator is determine by quality of its prey
so the prey of giganoto is mighty Big long head herbivore such Argentinosaurus so you can determine the quality of this beast

this the data from live livescience.com

Posted Image

But I don't deny that T-rex could has a chance to take down giganoto
So for me 60-40 for giganoto

so in the end I'm sorry for my inexperienced because I'm a newbie hre
Edited by G-Rex, May 16 2014, 07:57 PM.
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Naronu
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the 31mph sounds very unlikely but everything else is pretty accurate.
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TheMechaBaryonyx789
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G-Rex
May 16 2014, 01:20 PM
I'm just joined recently
And Greetings to all senpai (senior)in this forum
In this fight I support Giganoto because

1. It have advantage in agility
2. It has speed 31 mph
3. It has tenacity because Giganoto prey is mighty Big long head herbivore such Argentinosaurus

last quality of predator is determine by quality of its prey
so the prey of giganoto is mighty Big long head herbivore such Argentinosaurus so you can dertimine the quality of this beast

this the data from live livescience.com

Posted Image

But I don't deny that T-rex could has a chance to take down giganoto
So for me 60-40 for giganoto

so in the end I'm sorry for my inexperienced because I'm a newbie hre
What do you mean by, 'determine the quality'? Also the prey is not a valid factor in a hypothetical fight like this, these irrational animals will not be using hunting experience to their advantage.
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G-Rex
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TheMechaBaryonyx789
May 16 2014, 03:42 PM
What do you mean by, 'determine the quality'? Also the prey is not a valid factor in a hypothetical fight like this, these irrational animals will not be using hunting experience to their advantage.
lets make a bit analogy
an adult lion in his max size but grow in the zoo is much less tough than an adult lion same size but rise in wild the wild lion has more fighting experience with mighty herbivore such giraffe, zebra even bull so if this two king of jungle met and have clash you can see who is the winner so you can see which is more have quality

This not about this animal have a small brain or not but the fighting experience build the instinct of fighting this animal not hunting by thought but by instinct
Edited by G-Rex, May 16 2014, 08:04 PM.
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Jinfengopteryx
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Why does it have the prey advantage? Andesaurus may be larger than Triceratops, but I doubt it was that much harder prey.
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G-Rex
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Jinfengopteryx
May 16 2014, 11:41 PM
Why does it have the prey advantage? Andesaurus may be larger than Triceratops, but I doubt it was that much harder prey.

Because from what I read in book or in natural science site about correlation between predator and pray' that the more though prey the predator must have more tenacity. And tenacity is predator asset in fighting another predator

Andesaurus n argentinosaurus is by paleontologist is considered as a mighty herbivore.
when before giganotosaurus has discovered paleontologist have question what if Tyrano meet these beast ?
(I got that question from BBC wild life)
but that question answered by discovery of giganotosaurus another theropod predator
so from the paleontologist said that Andesaurus n argentinosaurus mighty herbivore so you can take that Andesaurus n argentinosaurus is very tough prey
And like I said before the more though prey the predator must have more tenacity

I don't deny that Triceratops has own difficulty to take down, like Triceratops had thick skin so that make its predator Tyranosaurus develop teeth and jaws plus power force advantage

But overall Andesaurus n argentinosaurus is more tough than Triceratops and that makes Giganoto has more tenacity
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Jinfengopteryx
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First of all, there is no evidence that Argentinosaurus and Giganotosaurus coexisted.
Secondly, if someone said Andesaurus is a mighty herbivore, this is rather meaningless, as mighty is relative. An 18 m Sauropod is not really that mighty to me (relatively). As for prey/predator generally, this is a fallacy. Jaguars don't hunt as large prey as some other wild cats, yet they surely can handle a cougar or a leopard. Also, wolves can take larger prey than cougars (even alone, there is an account of a single wolf killing a sick bison cow) and guess who would win in a battle? It is simply not relevant in a fight between two theropods who has the larger prey.
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TheMechaBaryonyx789
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G-Rex
May 16 2014, 05:58 PM
TheMechaBaryonyx789
May 16 2014, 03:42 PM
What do you mean by, 'determine the quality'? Also the prey is not a valid factor in a hypothetical fight like this, these irrational animals will not be using hunting experience to their advantage.
lets make a bit analogy
an adult lion in his max size but grow in the zoo is much less tough than an adult lion same size but rise in wild the wild lion has more fighting experience with mighty herbivore such giraffe, zebra even bull so if this two king of jungle met and have clash you can see who is the winner so you can see which is more have quality

This not about this animal have a small brain or not but the fighting experience build the instinct of fighting this animal not hunting by thought but by instinct
Why are you using extant mammals as a comparison to dinosaurs? Their fighting aspects are obviously going to be different. If your logic worked, then an Argentinosaurus would be completely helpless due to the fact its main diet was vegetation. Fighting ability is only determined by the physical aspects of two large theropods, their prey items are irrelevant.
Also Mapusaurus coexisted with Argentinosaurus, not Giganotosaurus. WWD isn't exactly the most reliable source. And 'quality' isn't the best terminology to use in this context.
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G-Rex
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Jinfengopteryx
May 17 2014, 02:50 AM
First of all, there is no evidence that Argentinosaurus and Giganotosaurus coexisted.
Secondly, if someone said Andesaurus is a mighty herbivore, this is rather meaningless, as mighty is relative. An 18 m Sauropod is not really that mighty to me (relatively). As for prey/predator generally, this is a fallacy. Jaguars don't hunt as large prey as some other wild cats, yet they surely can handle a cougar or a leopard. Also, wolves can take larger prey than cougars (even alone, there is an account of a single wolf killing a sick bison cow) and guess who would win in a battle? It is simply not relevant in a fight between two theropods who has the larger prey.
1. All scientist agree that argentinosaurus and giganyosaurus exist together at early Cenomanian age of the Late Cretaceous Period, approximately some 100 to 97 million years ago in the land now called patagonia
and for info another dino which had lived in the same place open this link

http://www.interpatagonia.com/paleontologia/hallazgos_i.html

This link is web of paleontologist progress report about dino which live in patagonia when mammals don't exist

2. About the size of Andesaurus Delgadoi see picture bellow
Posted Image
so this dino is prey of giganoto

3. if you can see the size of number two so you can see the tenacity of giganoto. Then the success of winning the two predator is depend of its instinct, and its instinct build by its battle experience

What giganoto battle experience
- battle vs prey (such Andesaurus Delgadoi which size like above )
- Battle vs another predator
Another predator such
- Carnotaurus Sastrei length = 10 m predator
- Amargasaurus Cazaui length = 9 m predator
- Piatnitzkysaurus Floresi length = 5 m predator
So with such hard life make giganoto had better battle experience that sharpen its instinct and make giganoto more "veteran combatant" than tyrano

in the end I want to say my first post data is based of Livescience.com and data in Livescience.com is based of NATURAL HISTORY MUSEUM LONDON

Quote:
 
Why are you using extant mammals as a comparison to dinosaurs? Their fighting aspects are obviously going to be different. If your logic worked, then an Argentinosaurus would be completely helpless due to the fact its main diet was vegetation. Fighting ability is only determined by the physical aspects of two large theropods, their prey items are irrelevant.
Also Mapusaurus coexisted with Argentinosaurus, not Giganotosaurus. WWD isn't exactly the most reliable source. And 'quality' isn't the best terminology to use in this context.
.

Ok if you deny Argentinosaurus lets change with Andesaurus Delgadoi
you think giganoto is dumb ?
giganto is hunting in pack so the live with social interaction with its group
and to take down Andesaurus Delgadoi in pack must fight with a bit strategy
and because its hunting pack and social relation with pack scientist start to doubt this dino is completely dumb because its size of brain but giganto social pack mean there is a bit intelligence in giganto so my logic about battle experience can aplly



Edited by G-Rex, May 17 2014, 09:25 AM.
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Naronu
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Amargasaurus is not a predator...
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TheMechaBaryonyx789
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G-Rex
May 17 2014, 08:38 AM
Jinfengopteryx
May 17 2014, 02:50 AM
First of all, there is no evidence that Argentinosaurus and Giganotosaurus coexisted.
Secondly, if someone said Andesaurus is a mighty herbivore, this is rather meaningless, as mighty is relative. An 18 m Sauropod is not really that mighty to me (relatively). As for prey/predator generally, this is a fallacy. Jaguars don't hunt as large prey as some other wild cats, yet they surely can handle a cougar or a leopard. Also, wolves can take larger prey than cougars (even alone, there is an account of a single wolf killing a sick bison cow) and guess who would win in a battle? It is simply not relevant in a fight between two theropods who has the larger prey.
1. All scientist agree that argentinosaurus and giganyosaurus exist together at early Cenomanian age of the Late Cretaceous Period, approximately some 100 to 97 million years ago in the land now called patagonia
and for info another dino which had lived in the same place open this link

http://www.interpatagonia.com/paleontologia/hallazgos_i.html

This link is web of paleontologist progress report about dino which live in patagonia when mammals don't exist

2. About the size of Andesaurus Delgadoi see picture bellow
Posted Image
so this dino is prey of giganoto

3. if you can see the size of number two so you can see the tenacity of giganoto. Then the success of winning the two predator is depend of its instinct, and its instinct build by its battle experience

What giganoto battle experience
- battle vs prey (such Andesaurus Delgadoi which size like above )
- Battle vs another predator
Another predator such
- Carnotaurus Sastrei length = 10 m predator
- Amargasaurus Cazaui length = 9 m predator
- Piatnitzkysaurus Floresi length = 5 m predator
So with such hard life make giganoto had better battle experience that sharpen its instinct and make giganoto more "veteran combatant" than tyrano

in the end I want to say my first post data is based of Livescience.com and data in Livescience.com is based of NATURAL HISTORY MUSEUM LONDON

Quote:
 
Why are you using extant mammals as a comparison to dinosaurs? Their fighting aspects are obviously going to be different. If your logic worked, then an Argentinosaurus would be completely helpless due to the fact its main diet was vegetation. Fighting ability is only determined by the physical aspects of two large theropods, their prey items are irrelevant.
Also Mapusaurus coexisted with Argentinosaurus, not Giganotosaurus. WWD isn't exactly the most reliable source. And 'quality' isn't the best terminology to use in this context.
.

Ok if you deny Argentinosaurus lets change with Andesaurus Delgadoi
you think giganoto is dumb ?
giganto is hunting in pack so the live with social interaction with its group
and to take down Andesaurus Delgadoi in pack must fight with a bit strategy
and because its hunting pack and social relation with pack scientist start to doubt this dino is completely dumb because its size of brain but giganto social pack mean there is a bit intelligence in giganto so my logic about battle experience can aplly



What? Since when did I say Giganotosaurus was 'dumb'? I didn't even mention intelligence in that post, due to it not being a relevant factor. Evolution is not a ladder.
I have already provided an example for why fighting experience and the prey/diet of an animal are not valid factors. The physical aspects of animal determines its fighting ability in these kinds of hypothetical fights.
Edited by TheMechaBaryonyx789, May 17 2014, 05:06 PM.
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Jinfengopteryx
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G-Rex
May 17 2014, 08:38 AM
1. All scientist agree that argentinosaurus and giganyosaurus exist together at early Cenomanian age of the Late Cretaceous Period, approximately some 100 to 97 million years ago in the land now called patagonia
They don't.
http://www.geol.umd.edu/~tholtz/dinoappendix/HoltzappendixWinter2011.pdf
At least Holtz doubts this. He gives a range of 100 to 97 million years for Gignaotosaurus and 97 to 93.5 mya for Argentinosaurus. It is possible that they coexisted (I could live with it if someone brought both together in some fictive scenarios, i.e. a documentary), but it is simply no solid fact and I would be careful with using it as an argument.
G-Rex
May 17 2014, 08:38 AM
and for info another dino which had lived in the same place open this link

http://www.interpatagonia.com/paleontologia/hallazgos_i.html
They did not all coexist with Giganotosaurus, I suggest looking at the time numbers your source gives.
G-Rex
May 17 2014, 08:38 AM
2. About the size of Andesaurus Delgadoi see picture bellow
Posted Image
so this dino is prey of giganoto
Sorry, but there is no support for that dino being 30 m long.
Jinfengopteryx
Feb 15 2013, 03:02 AM
Great overexaggeration:

http://paleoking.blogspot.de/2012/06/forgotten-giants-3-andesaurus.html

That's right, you heard me. DEAD wrong. Andesaurus isn't 100 feet long. Not even close. That length has been repeated in many places, Wikipedia among them (at least a few months ago). I don't know how many people have actually read the scientific literature on Andesaurus (which now includes the description paper, Calvo & Bonaparte 1991; the titanosaur comparative anatomy paper Salgado et. al. 1997; and an extensive redescription, Mannion & Calvo, 2011). And the number of people who have actually seen and measured the fossils, I could probably count on my hand. The dorsal vertebrae (what's known of them anyway) are absolutely dwarfed by those of Argentinosaurus - a bit odd for two creatures that were supposedly around the same size. Even plain old Brachiosaurus has bigger dorsals. Andesaurus is a lot smaller than we've been led to believe.

If you read the blog, you see that it was likely 50-60 ft long (65 ft when stretching).
G-Rex
May 17 2014, 08:38 AM
3. if you can see the size of number two so you can see the tenacity of giganoto. Then the success of winning the two predator is depend of its instinct, and its instinct build by its battle experience

What giganoto battle experience
- battle vs prey (such Andesaurus Delgadoi which size like above )
- Battle vs another predator
Another predator such
- Carnotaurus Sastrei length = 10 m predator
- Amargasaurus Cazaui length = 9 m predator
- Piatnitzkysaurus Floresi length = 5 m predator
So with such hard life make giganoto had better battle experience that sharpen its instinct and make giganoto more "veteran combatant" than tyrano
Nope, read your source again, it only said they also lived in Patagonia, but gave different numbers (like 165 mya for Piatnitzkysaurus). This is like saying Tyrannosaurus coexisted with Allosaurus because both were found in North America. Carnotaurus lived later than Giganotosaurus, see Holtz's dinosaur list I linked above.
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theropod
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Did that guy just claim Amargasaurus was a predator?
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Jinfengopteryx
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He did, but Naronu already replied and I didn't want to parrot him.
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50/50
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