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| Giganotosaurus carolinii v Tyrannosaurus rex | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 31 2012, 05:48 PM (110,336 Views) | |
| Taipan | Jan 31 2012, 05:48 PM Post #1 |
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Giganotosaurus carolinii Giganotosaurus ("giant southern lizard"), was a carcharodontosaurid dinosaur that lived 93 to 89 million years ago during the Turonian stage of the Late Cretaceous period. It is one of the longest known terrestrial carnivores, bigger than Tyrannosaurus, but in length and weight, smaller than Spinosaurus. Although longer than T. rex, G. carolinii was lighter and had a much smaller braincase that was the size and shape of a banana. A well-developed olfactory region means it probably had a good sense of smell. Titanosaur fossils have been recovered near the remains of Giganotosaurus, leading to speculation that these carnivores may have preyed on the giant herbivores. Fossils of related carcharodontosaurid fossils grouped closely together may indicate pack hunting, a behavior that could possibly extend to Giganotosaurus itself. he holotype specimen's (MUCPv-Ch1) skeleton was about 70% complete and included parts of the skull, a lower jaw, pelvis, hindlimbs and most of the backbone. The premaxillae, jugals, quadratojugals, the back of the lower jaws and the forelimbs are missing. Various estimates find that it measured somewhere between 12.2 and 13 m (40 and 43 ft) in length, and between 6.5 and 13.3 tons in weight. A second, more fragmentary, specimen (MUCPv-95) has also been identified, found in 1987 by Jorge Calvo. It is only known from the front part of the left dentary which is 8% larger than the equivalent bone from the holotype. This largest Giganotosaurus specimen is estimated to represent an individual with a skull length of 195 cm (6.40 ft), compared to the holotype's estimated at 1.80 m (5.9 ft) skull, making it likely that Giganotosaurus had the largest skull of any known theropod. Giganotosaurus surpassed Tyrannosaurus in mass by at least half a ton (the upper size estimate for T. rex is 9.1 t). Additionally several single teeth, discovered from 1987 onwards, have been referred to the species. ![]() Tyrannosaurus rex Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago. It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes. ![]() ______________________________________________________________________________
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| Teratophoneus | Dec 19 2014, 08:07 AM Post #286 | ||||
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Herbivore
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Why isn't this topic 200+-pages long like T.rex vs Spinosaurus? That's pretty close. Both reached pretty much the same size, and both are equally deadly. |
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| The Reptile | Dec 21 2014, 01:31 AM Post #287 | ||||
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Both would certainly be very "deadly" (as they would require it given that they were well-adapted macropredators), but the extent can always vary. | ||||
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| MadMax | Dec 21 2014, 02:17 AM Post #288 | ||||
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Unicellular Organism
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Close call, but one, T. rex, can kill the other a bit quicker, i.e. more frontal killing style.
Edited by MadMax, Dec 21 2014, 02:17 AM.
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| The Reptile | Dec 22 2014, 01:14 AM Post #289 | ||||
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Herbivore
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That doesn't really mean that it can "kill it quicker", just that it would be capable of employing less precise fighting. Tyrannosaurus could likely crush portions of giganotosaurus' skull given a wide-enough jaw angle, yes, but that doesn't really make it a "quicker killer". Giganotosaurus could be very deadly as long as it can bite the tyrannosaurus in the flanks or neck, but at the same time that also relies on much more precision (as it was unlikely that it could crush bones very effectively) What I am trying to say is that, while tyrannosaurus would be able to crush more effectively than giganotosaurus, it also lacks the same ability to slice and tear flesh easily (which could be done, but it would require great force, which is what many tyrannosaurids were adapted for whereas allosaurs were not). Crushing is definitely its greatest adaptation when it comes to feeding, but it would be less successful if it were to bite something lacking a pronounced skeletal structure. And the teeth alone should be indication of this, as you are basically comparing biological knives to serrated spikes: (actually this is carcharodontosaurus, but it serves as a basis for what we find in giganotosaurus. I could not find a decent image of a giganotosaurus tooth cross-section)[img]http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com/Dinosaur_Fossils_For_Sale/T_rex_fossils_Tyrannosaurus_rex/Fossil_T_rex_Tooth_4/IMG_8771.jpg[img] Edited by The Reptile, Dec 22 2014, 01:30 AM.
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| TheBeast | Dec 23 2014, 02:50 AM Post #290 | ||||
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Unicellular Organism
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Giga wins he's faster and deadlier. And no, im not giga fanboy. Btw i like t rex too. | ||||
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| moldovan0731 | Dec 25 2014, 10:27 PM Post #291 | ||||
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Heterotrophic Organism
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Edited by moldovan0731, May 20 2017, 07:25 PM.
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| SpinoInWonderland | Jun 8 2015, 09:52 PM Post #292 | ||||
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The madness has come back...
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The length and height figures...I don't mean to offend but those are quite inaccurate. Neither of then were anywhere near ~6.096 meters(20 feet) tall. Tyrannosaurus was anywhere between ~3-3.5 meters tall at the hips, and doesn't have the tall neural spines that elevate it's back above hip height, so the highest point at it's back is it's hip height. Giganotosaurus had neural spines that elevated it's back above hip level, but it wasn't leading by much either - approximately ~3.5-4 meters tall at the back just over the hips. And they would be hard-pressed to get their heads reaching the ~6-meter mark, I don't know if they could even rear up high enough to get their snouts to reach that height. There is no actual evidence of Tyrannosaurus reaching lengths above 13 meters. MOR 008, if scaled based on AMNH 5027, is likely an animal roughly around ~12.5-12.6 meters long, but less massive than the ~12.3-meter long FMNH PR2081. Giganotosaurus can only really get to the region near ~13.72 meters(~45 feet) if you take MUCPv-95 as your specimen and use GSP's skeletal, and I'm not sure how accurate it really is. The thing looks stretched out for a large derived carcharodontosaurid. Edited by SpinoInWonderland, Jun 8 2015, 09:54 PM.
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| Spartan | Jun 8 2015, 11:59 PM Post #293 | ||||
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Kleptoparasite
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Large Tyrannosaurus could grow taller than 3.5m at the hips, but yes, the descriptions in the OP are often not very accurate. | ||||
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| blaze | Jun 9 2015, 01:51 AM Post #294 | ||||
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Carnivore
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Only if you break their legs and articulate them in a columnar fashion. Hartman's Sue is only 3.4m tall at the hips and his other T. rex are 3.3-3.4m tall at the hips, there's very little difference between the limb length of Sue and younger, otherwise smaller specimens. Edited by blaze, Jun 9 2015, 01:51 AM.
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| Darker | Jun 9 2015, 04:07 AM Post #295 | ||||
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Heterotrophic Organism
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Giganotosaurus has it in my opinion. T-Rex lacks size and strength to put down the other predator, who's much better built to fight bigger things, yet here, he's specifically brawling a tinier version of himself. | ||||
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| Spartan | Jun 9 2015, 04:16 AM Post #296 | ||||
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Kleptoparasite
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Really? I didn't know that, I thought Sue were almost 4 metres at the hip. |
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| Ausar | Jun 9 2015, 04:23 AM Post #297 | ||||
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Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
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Wait wat? Anyway, this fight is 50/50 at similar weights (which is definitely possible here). I think the reasons why have been stated innumerous times in the past. |
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| Spinodontosaurus | Jun 9 2015, 05:00 AM Post #298 | ||||
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This is probably because the Field Museum itself trumpets Sue at 4 meters tall, but this probably includes the concrete stand that her skeleton is mounted on, the skeleton itself is not 4 meters tall. ![]() Full size version. The two "floors" on that chart are 4 meters apart - there is no way Sue is hitting 4 meters without A: Having columnar legs or B: Adopting a Godzilla pose. Edited by Spinodontosaurus, Jun 9 2015, 05:01 AM.
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| Spartan | Jun 9 2015, 05:17 AM Post #299 | ||||
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Kleptoparasite
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Alright, thanks for clarifying. Is MUCPv-95 really that fragmentary? | ||||
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| theropod | Jun 9 2015, 06:28 AM Post #300 | ||||
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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Yes, the dentary is all there is. Though seeing it in that drawing of course doesn’t make the fact that the partial dentary is still 61cm long appreciable. @Spinodontosaurus: Actually, even if we gave it collumnar legs, sue would never reach 4m at the hip. Let’s calculate with the assumption of collumnar legs for demonstration purposes: ilium above acetabulum+femur+tibiotarsus+metatarsus=59+132+125+67=383cm. A full 17cm short of 4m , assuming femur, tibiotarsus and metatarsus are all in one straight, vertical line (which, of course, they don’t even come close to). To get it to 4m above the hip, you’d need to make it unguligrade. Edited by theropod, Jun 9 2015, 08:20 AM.
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(actually this is carcharodontosaurus, but it serves as a basis for what we find in giganotosaurus. I could not find a decent image of a giganotosaurus tooth cross-section)

2:24 AM Jul 14