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Giganotosaurus carolinii v Tyrannosaurus rex
Topic Started: Jan 31 2012, 05:48 PM (110,329 Views)
Taipan
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Giganotosaurus carolinii
Giganotosaurus ("giant southern lizard"), was a carcharodontosaurid dinosaur that lived 93 to 89 million years ago during the Turonian stage of the Late Cretaceous period. It is one of the longest known terrestrial carnivores, bigger than Tyrannosaurus, but in length and weight, smaller than Spinosaurus. Although longer than T. rex, G. carolinii was lighter and had a much smaller braincase that was the size and shape of a banana. A well-developed olfactory region means it probably had a good sense of smell. Titanosaur fossils have been recovered near the remains of Giganotosaurus, leading to speculation that these carnivores may have preyed on the giant herbivores. Fossils of related carcharodontosaurid fossils grouped closely together may indicate pack hunting, a behavior that could possibly extend to Giganotosaurus itself. he holotype specimen's (MUCPv-Ch1) skeleton was about 70% complete and included parts of the skull, a lower jaw, pelvis, hindlimbs and most of the backbone. The premaxillae, jugals, quadratojugals, the back of the lower jaws and the forelimbs are missing. Various estimates find that it measured somewhere between 12.2 and 13 m (40 and 43 ft) in length, and between 6.5 and 13.3 tons in weight. A second, more fragmentary, specimen (MUCPv-95) has also been identified, found in 1987 by Jorge Calvo. It is only known from the front part of the left dentary which is 8% larger than the equivalent bone from the holotype. This largest Giganotosaurus specimen is estimated to represent an individual with a skull length of 195 cm (6.40 ft), compared to the holotype's estimated at 1.80 m (5.9 ft) skull, making it likely that Giganotosaurus had the largest skull of any known theropod. Giganotosaurus surpassed Tyrannosaurus in mass by at least half a ton (the upper size estimate for T. rex is 9.1 t). Additionally several single teeth, discovered from 1987 onwards, have been referred to the species.

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Tyrannosaurus rex
Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago. It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes.

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Prehistoric Cat
Jan 31 2012, 04:53 PM
Giganotosaurus VS Tyrannosaurus
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theropod
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when your neck vertebrae is crushed you are a goner
So are you when your neck muscles are cut, believe it or not, bones don’t move without muscles.

While we are at it, an intact spinal chord, desirable as it may be, is also not all that useful if the blood spurts out of your cut throat instead of flowing into your brain, or while a big bite is being taken out of your flank and into your internal organs.

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when t rex's neck is sliced it could at least still fight for a period of time
Citation needed (also and if you actually find one, which you won’t, don’t forget to bring one that proves Giganotosaurus could not when bitten by that magical wonder-weapon-crushing-bite)
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You're acting like a slicing bite from giga is as fatal as a megalodon bite lol, you're way overestimating it.


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Big cats use their limbs, theropod could still use their shoulders, head, body and all the works. Oh and a head to head ram would certainly shatter giga's much more delicate skull.
"Certainly" is too much for my taste. But yes, it might. That’s why Giganotosaurus is not going to even attempt to ram anything with its head. And neither is T. rex, because no animal not specifically adapted for it does it (and because at best it would result in a really bad concussion, in the worst case in a broken neck anyway, for both).

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You're acting like a slicing bite from giga is as fatal as a megalodon bite lol, you're way overestimating it.
It is not going to be anywhere near that fatal, because Giganotosaurus is several times smaller than C. megalodon. And neither is the bite of T. rex going to be that fatal, so that comparison is wholly irrelevant, downright laughable actually. Though at size parity, obviously the otodontid is not the worst analogy for Giganotosaurus, and yes, its bite was certainly very potent.

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A bulky chest would surely aid you in close quarter body to body impact and resisting damage to internal organs.
If these two collide at any significant speed, they will BOTH fatally injure themselves in the process. The same applies to either of them simply falling to the ground unbreaked.

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Some slight difference in the shape of metatasals would not matter much here especially when the tyrannosaur is much more robust, powerfully built overall and with bigger size to boot.
What bigger size? If anything, Giganotosaurus is bigger. I have already explained why that "much more robust" built is totally useless here, detrimental actually (because believe it or not, if you want to step on someone’s head, being the taller one actually helps!).
You can try to refute my arguments scientifically. But please don’t just repeat the same baseless claims you already posted.
Edited by theropod, Jun 29 2015, 02:40 AM.
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Ceratodromeus
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bone crusher
Jun 29 2015, 02:28 AM
Slicing damage is nowhere near as fatal as a crushing bite, when t rex's neck is sliced it could at least still fight for a period of time, but when your neck vertebrae is crushed you are a goner. You're acting like a slicing bite from giga is as fatal as a megalodon bite lol, you're way overestimating it.
Theropods don't have to be rugby players to know how to ram or grapple each other, they might not strictly do it but they would use it whenever and however possible to aid them in a fight. Who are you to say they wouldn't ram each other just because giga is at a disadvantage at doing so?
Big cats use their limbs, theropod could still use their shoulders, head, body and all the works. Oh and a head to head ram would certainly shatter giga's much more delicate skull.
Some slight difference in the shape of metatasals would not matter much here especially when the tyrannosaur is much more robust, powerfully built overall and with bigger size to boot. A bulky chest would surely aid you in close quarter body to body impact and resisting damage to internal organs.
You should know just coz they're not rugby players animals could still perform similar form of physical contact in a fight. Crocs fight by smashing their skulls to one another aside from bite each other. The one with the weaker skull would surely give in sooner or later.
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Slicing damage is nowhere near as fatal as a crushing bite,

What.
.
Quote:
 
You're acting like a slicing bite from giga is as fatal as a megalodon bite lol, you're way overestimating it.

"Overestimating it" lol

I've presented evidence for my argument - you have not.
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bone crusher
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theropod
Jun 29 2015, 02:38 AM
Quote:
 
when your neck vertebrae is crushed you are a goner
So are you when your neck muscles are cut, believe it or not, bones don’t move without muscles.

While we are at it, an intact spinal chord, desirable as it may be, is also not all that useful if the blood spurts out of your cut throat instead of flowing into your brain, or while a big bite is being taken out of your flank and into your internal organs.

Quote:
 
when t rex's neck is sliced it could at least still fight for a period of time
Citation needed (also and if you actually find one, which you won’t, don’t forget to bring one that proves Giganotosaurus could not when bitten by that magical wonder-weapon-crushing-bite)
Quote:
 
You're acting like a slicing bite from giga is as fatal as a megalodon bite lol, you're way overestimating it.


Quote:
 
Big cats use their limbs, theropod could still use their shoulders, head, body and all the works. Oh and a head to head ram would certainly shatter giga's much more delicate skull.
"Certainly" is too much for my taste. But yes, it might. That’s why Giganotosaurus is not going to even attempt to ram anything with its head. And neither is T. rex, because no animal not specifically adapted for it does it (and because at best it would result in a really bad concussion, in the worst case in a broken neck anyway, for both).

Quote:
 
You're acting like a slicing bite from giga is as fatal as a megalodon bite lol, you're way overestimating it.
It is not going to be anywhere near that fatal, because Giganotosaurus is several times smaller than C. megalodon. And neither is the bite of T. rex going to be that fatal, so that comparison is wholly irrelevant, downright laughable actually. Though at size parity, obviously the otodontid is not the worst analogy for Giganotosaurus, and yes, its bite was certainly very potent.

Quote:
 
A bulky chest would surely aid you in close quarter body to body impact and resisting damage to internal organs.
If these two collide at any significant speed, they will BOTH fatally injure themselves in the process. The same applies to either of them simply falling to the ground unbreaked.

Quote:
 
Some slight difference in the shape of metatasals would not matter much here especially when the tyrannosaur is much more robust, powerfully built overall and with bigger size to boot.
What bigger size? If anything, Giganotosaurus is bigger. I have already explained why that "much more robust" built is totally useless here, detrimental actually (because believe it or not, if you want to step on someone’s head, being the taller one actually helps!).
You can try to refute my arguments scientifically. But please don’t just repeat the same baseless claims you already posted.
You know you don't have all the data to back up your claims neither, we can do this all day long so we can agree to disagree. Will continue this later.
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DarkGricer
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You know, bone crushing isn't something that happens instantly. Bone is very resistant, and while I don't doubt that T.rex could break any of Giganotosaurus' bones, it's not going to just bite the neck and instantly kill the thing. It will need to keep up the pressure for a moment before the bone just can't take it anymore. Perhaps if T.rex had a bite force of 50 tons it could just insta-break everything, but I have my doubts that it s biteforce was that high.
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theropod
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You know you don't have all the data to back up your claims neither, we can do this all day long so we can agree to disagree. Will continue this later.
Well, I for one (as well as a few others) have provided anatomical descriptions and population statistics from credible sources, functional explanations based on sound principles, modern examples. In short, stuff that I’m happy to call data. What have you done to back up your claims? All I’m reading time and again is "but a crushing bite is still more deadly…" no matter what evidence we”ve shown you, or what lack of evidence on your part we’ve highlighted.

@darkgricer: True. If you look at extant durophages that becomes apparent instantly. A crocodile doesn’t crush a turtle in half a second and kills it instantly (and turtles aren’t any larger compared to crocodiles than seals are compared to sharks). T. rex biting any other theropod’s neck would obviously be devastating, but it is not going to be more lethal or faster than Giganotosaurus doing so.
Edited by theropod, Jun 29 2015, 03:24 AM.
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Lukose
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Well....

I guess it's simply down to whose going to get the first solid bite.
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moldovan0731
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moldovan0731
Dec 25 2014, 10:27 PM
I think it depends on the size of Giga. If it was only longer than T.rex but about equally heavy, then T. rex wins, but irf Giga was heavyer by a half tonne (I think the max weight difference could be a half tonne in favor of Giga), then Giga wins in favor of 55/45. Anyway, I like both of them.
I would correct my opinion a bit (I still think almost the same, tough):
So, I think it depends on the size of Giga. If it was only longer than T.rex but about equally heavy, then T. rex wins, but if Giga was heavier by a half tonne (I think the max weight difference could be a half tonne in favor of Giga), then it's 50/50 or Giga wins in favor of 55/45. Anyway, I like both of them.
Edited by moldovan0731, May 20 2017, 07:36 PM.
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Jaws
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DarkGricer
Feb 5 2012, 06:44 AM

@Taurus: Sure T.rex's bone crushign bite would be a force to be reckoned with, but the damage done by it pales in comparising to the huge slices of Giga's scicor jaws.
What no way a rex bite is 14.72 tons siting on you
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Ausar
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DarkGricer does not believe that anymore. In fact, when you've got a post that old, it's very possible the poster has changed his/her opinion. So please. Stop. Replying to. Old. Posts.
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Drift
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T. rex biting any other theropod’s neck would obviously be devastating, but it is not going to be more lethal or faster than Giganotosaurus doing so.


While a slicing bite is the way to counter the crushing force of Tyrannosaur bites,since being able to compete with the crushing prowess isn't an option.

In laymen's terms,Slicing teeth are not accompanied with a high bite force (evident among the animal kingdom) which would provide the pressure to remain rooted in their opponents vital areas.
Frankly, a crushing bite would simultaneously suffocate what is seized in the maw while pulverizing bone.

A slicing bite requires far more lateral head movement as well as repetitive tearing at the exact spot that was initially attacked.
One bite will not be anchoring Giganotosaurus , however it will for the Tyrannosaurus .
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DarkGricer
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@Jaws: Yeah, as Ausar already mentioned, this is no longer what I believe. This comment was back from my fanboy years. I believe this battle is about 50/50 now.

Though I seriously doubt T.rex has a biteforce of nearly 15 tons. That seems really exaggerated.

@Drift: How does a slicing bite require more repetitive bites? A quick look at shark attacks will tell you that's just not true. A single bite can easily be enough for a shark to kill its prey, not neccesarily instantaneously, but through bleeding. And if the single bite does not prove fatal, it usually leaves the victim weakened to the point where the shark can easily finish it off.

Now, I'm not saying Giganotosaurus would win with just a single bite, but it could certainly deal quite a lot of damage with a single, swift bite. Such a bite could be crippling is it hits the right spot.
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Jaws
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DarkGricer
Oct 9 2015, 09:07 PM
@Jaws: Yeah, as Ausar already mentioned, this is no longer what I believe. This comment was back from my fanboy years. I believe this battle is about 50/50 now.

Though I seriously doubt T.rex has a biteforce of nearly 15 tons. That seems really exaggerated.

@Drift: How does a slicing bite require more repetitive bites? A quick look at shark attacks will tell you that's just not true. A single bite can easily be enough for a shark to kill its prey, not neccesarily instantaneously, but through bleeding. And if the single bite does not prove fatal, it usually leaves the victim weakened to the point where the shark can easily finish it off.

Now, I'm not saying Giganotosaurus would win with just a single bite, but it could certainly deal quite a lot of damage with a single, swift bite. Such a bite could be crippling is it hits the right spot.
i have a source stating sue had a bite force of 14.72 tons aka 46000 newtons and IMO crushing bite>slicing bite


PS:your picture is cracking me up
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Ceratodromeus
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Jaws
 
i have a source stating sue had a bite force of 14.72 tons aka 46000 newtons

Edited: well I read that wrong xD

But yeah, 46000N is no where near 14 tons.
Edited by Ceratodromeus, Oct 14 2015, 06:21 AM.
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Ausar
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46kN doesn't equal 14.72 tons :huh: ...

That said, I've looked into discussion on another forum and a dry skull estimate for Tyrannosaurus had an estimate of ~30kN. Actual in vivo values could apparently be as much as ~3 times higher than that.

http://carnivoraforum.com/single/?p=8757014&t=10315320
But blaze also once said in vivo values are up to ~3 fold higher than multi-body dynamics as well. If that "3 times notion" holds true for multi-body dynamics too, then that would imply a really powerful bite, as high as it may seem.

Of course though, I'm not really sure...
Edited by Ausar, Oct 14 2015, 05:05 AM.
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Jaws
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Ceratodromeus
Oct 14 2015, 04:44 AM
Jaws
 
i have a source stating sue had a bite force of 14.72 tons aka 46000 newtons

Edited: well I read that wrong xD

But yeah, 46000N is no where near 14 tons.
really i thout 1 N=5 lb


PS:how can i post a link
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