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| Giganotosaurus carolinii v Tyrannosaurus rex | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 31 2012, 05:48 PM (110,325 Views) | |
| Taipan | Jan 31 2012, 05:48 PM Post #1 |
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Giganotosaurus carolinii Giganotosaurus ("giant southern lizard"), was a carcharodontosaurid dinosaur that lived 93 to 89 million years ago during the Turonian stage of the Late Cretaceous period. It is one of the longest known terrestrial carnivores, bigger than Tyrannosaurus, but in length and weight, smaller than Spinosaurus. Although longer than T. rex, G. carolinii was lighter and had a much smaller braincase that was the size and shape of a banana. A well-developed olfactory region means it probably had a good sense of smell. Titanosaur fossils have been recovered near the remains of Giganotosaurus, leading to speculation that these carnivores may have preyed on the giant herbivores. Fossils of related carcharodontosaurid fossils grouped closely together may indicate pack hunting, a behavior that could possibly extend to Giganotosaurus itself. he holotype specimen's (MUCPv-Ch1) skeleton was about 70% complete and included parts of the skull, a lower jaw, pelvis, hindlimbs and most of the backbone. The premaxillae, jugals, quadratojugals, the back of the lower jaws and the forelimbs are missing. Various estimates find that it measured somewhere between 12.2 and 13 m (40 and 43 ft) in length, and between 6.5 and 13.3 tons in weight. A second, more fragmentary, specimen (MUCPv-95) has also been identified, found in 1987 by Jorge Calvo. It is only known from the front part of the left dentary which is 8% larger than the equivalent bone from the holotype. This largest Giganotosaurus specimen is estimated to represent an individual with a skull length of 195 cm (6.40 ft), compared to the holotype's estimated at 1.80 m (5.9 ft) skull, making it likely that Giganotosaurus had the largest skull of any known theropod. Giganotosaurus surpassed Tyrannosaurus in mass by at least half a ton (the upper size estimate for T. rex is 9.1 t). Additionally several single teeth, discovered from 1987 onwards, have been referred to the species. ![]() Tyrannosaurus rex Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago. It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes. ![]() ______________________________________________________________________________
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| Ausar | Feb 19 2016, 11:51 AM Post #451 |
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Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
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Then what was your statement that elephants had more cursorial adaptations than mega theropods did all about? Are you seriously implying that the effects of an Argentine black & white tegu's bite on a larger animal would be roughly analogous to those of a Tyrannosaurus rex? Why don't you take a look at actual macropredators with raptorial puncturing/crushing dentition just like that of Tyrannosaurus, like the spotted hyena? ![]() ![]() ![]() And that's ignoring the fact that, unlike Tyrannosaurus rex, Crocuta crocuta lacks serrated carinae on its teeth and has a far shorter toothrow usable for actually killing other animals. As for crushing-toothed animals killing similar-sized animals with a single bite: link ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() (Granted, I don't know how large the caiman's killer was compared to it, but the caiman at least LOOKS mature). These are all skull bites as you can see. And all of these bitten-through skulls are the solidly-constructed skulls of macrophagous crocodilians and mammals. This is in contrast to the not-so-solidly-built skulls most predatory theropods tended to have, Giganotosaurus among them; imagine what a Tyrannosaurus' bite would do to it. I've seen the tyrannosaurid arctometatarsus described as "tightly locked". If anything, shouldn't that help in dealing with forces from pinned down prey and make the more kinetic, more autonomous metatarsals of an anarcometatarsalian theropod at greater risk of mechanical failure? The fact that Tyrannosaurus' metatarsals weren't absurdly long and gracile like those of much smaller cursorial theropods (its great size certainly has something to do with this) should help with this. Edited by Ausar, Feb 2 2017, 11:30 AM.
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| Ragnarr | Feb 29 2016, 02:59 PM Post #452 |
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Autotrophic Organism
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Back then, when Giganotosaurus was seen as a behemoth with a 2 meters long skull and a body mass up to 20-30% superior to the largest Tyrannosaurus, I would have favored it without a doubt. But such data appeared to have been poorly supported in later works. Tyrannosaurus still represents the heaviest (yes by a small margin) theropod and the most powerfully built with its barrel-shaped torso. Not to mention the volume of its jaws, I doubt any carcharodontosaurid known has a head as heavy as Tyrannosaurus. And the infamous power of its bite. However, the horrific slashing bite of Giganotosaurus would let severe damages on the tyrant even victorious. |
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| moldovan0731 | Jun 26 2016, 10:01 PM Post #453 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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Edited by moldovan0731, May 20 2017, 07:32 PM.
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| Gyirin | Jun 26 2016, 10:37 PM Post #454 |
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Omnivore
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What is the best modern analogue for the T.rex. I was thinking Brown bear but.. |
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| Black Panther | Jun 27 2016, 12:00 AM Post #455 |
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Omnivore
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Maybe hyena, they both have bone crushing bites, bulky builds, and fairly unusable arms. For giga maybe a moniter lizard due to the thin blade like and serrated teeth and arms with large claws, and slightly more useable arms. As for the fight I say it's a 50/50. The giga is more agile and has a much wider gape that can bute most places on rex. But the t.rex is bulkier and stronger and could inflict huge wounds in snaller parts of giga like the head or neck. |
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| Thalassophoneus | Jun 27 2016, 12:07 AM Post #456 |
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Pelagic Killer
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I just came here so I don't know if you discussed about this matter previously in the thread, but I'm not sure that any of this is true. |
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| Black Ice | Jun 27 2016, 01:27 AM Post #457 |
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Drom King
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I honestly see this something like Komodo Dragon vs Hyena. |
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| Black Panther | Jun 27 2016, 01:34 AM Post #458 |
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Omnivore
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I agree with black ice. Thasslo, it's all true actually. Giga was a sauropod killer like most carnosaurs and had to have a larger gape to get a bigger bite while t.rex hunted "smaller" prey abd didn't need as large of a gape, along with the fact that animals with weaker bites seem to have larger gapes than their stronger bite counterparts(with odvious exeptions of course). And guga is lighter built so it is almost certainly more agile. |
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| Spartan | Jun 27 2016, 01:43 AM Post #459 |
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Kleptoparasite
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T. rex gape isn't much smaller. The differences between a spotted hyena and a komodo dragon are much bigger than the differences between T. rex and Giganotosaurus. |
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| Black Panther | Jun 27 2016, 01:58 AM Post #460 |
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Omnivore
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The hyena also doesn't have 60 bone crushing railroad spike teeth and the Komodo dragon isn't a biped so the analogy is the best we got but not perfect. |
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| Thalassophoneus | Jun 27 2016, 02:34 AM Post #461 |
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Pelagic Killer
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The main reason why this analogy isn't good is that those two animals are random and completely unrelated to each other. Also how do you know that Giganotosaurus was more lightly built? From what we know it was about as bulky as Tyrannosaurus. And you cannot determine whether it had a wider gape from whether it was a sauropod killer. An extinct animal's habits are judged from its morphology, not the opposite. Edited by Thalassophoneus, Jun 27 2016, 02:38 AM.
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| Black Ice | Jun 27 2016, 05:58 AM Post #462 |
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Drom King
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Judging by that logic morphologically Panda Bears are powerful predators. |
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| Black Panther | Jun 27 2016, 06:37 AM Post #463 |
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Omnivore
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How about you take a gander at their skeletons. Skeletals done by Scott Hartman. I don't say giga is weak or anything, just a bit less bulky. Black ice who are you talking to? Edited by Black Panther, Jun 27 2016, 06:47 AM.
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| Ausar | Jun 27 2016, 07:01 AM Post #464 |
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Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
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A guy who knows what he's talking about should be able to deduce pandas for what they really are, even going by morphology. For example, he'd be able to recognize that the panda's reduced and not very sharp canines are more suggestive of herbivory than raptorial tendencies, and that the powerfully-built skull, large room for jaw muscles, and the morphology of the postcanine teeth suggest the consumption of tough plant matter. He may also note that the large gut region is also indicative of herbivory. Even animals that look superficially suited for one lifestyle have to be morphologically designed for the one they truly live. Edited by Ausar, Jun 30 2016, 08:31 AM.
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| Thalassophoneus | Jun 27 2016, 09:05 AM Post #465 |
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Pelagic Killer
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But did Giganotosaurus indeed have a huge gape? |
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