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| Giganotosaurus carolinii v Tyrannosaurus rex | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 31 2012, 05:48 PM (110,321 Views) | |
| Taipan | Jan 31 2012, 05:48 PM Post #1 |
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Giganotosaurus carolinii Giganotosaurus ("giant southern lizard"), was a carcharodontosaurid dinosaur that lived 93 to 89 million years ago during the Turonian stage of the Late Cretaceous period. It is one of the longest known terrestrial carnivores, bigger than Tyrannosaurus, but in length and weight, smaller than Spinosaurus. Although longer than T. rex, G. carolinii was lighter and had a much smaller braincase that was the size and shape of a banana. A well-developed olfactory region means it probably had a good sense of smell. Titanosaur fossils have been recovered near the remains of Giganotosaurus, leading to speculation that these carnivores may have preyed on the giant herbivores. Fossils of related carcharodontosaurid fossils grouped closely together may indicate pack hunting, a behavior that could possibly extend to Giganotosaurus itself. he holotype specimen's (MUCPv-Ch1) skeleton was about 70% complete and included parts of the skull, a lower jaw, pelvis, hindlimbs and most of the backbone. The premaxillae, jugals, quadratojugals, the back of the lower jaws and the forelimbs are missing. Various estimates find that it measured somewhere between 12.2 and 13 m (40 and 43 ft) in length, and between 6.5 and 13.3 tons in weight. A second, more fragmentary, specimen (MUCPv-95) has also been identified, found in 1987 by Jorge Calvo. It is only known from the front part of the left dentary which is 8% larger than the equivalent bone from the holotype. This largest Giganotosaurus specimen is estimated to represent an individual with a skull length of 195 cm (6.40 ft), compared to the holotype's estimated at 1.80 m (5.9 ft) skull, making it likely that Giganotosaurus had the largest skull of any known theropod. Giganotosaurus surpassed Tyrannosaurus in mass by at least half a ton (the upper size estimate for T. rex is 9.1 t). Additionally several single teeth, discovered from 1987 onwards, have been referred to the species. ![]() Tyrannosaurus rex Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago. It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes. ![]() ______________________________________________________________________________
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| Ausar | Jul 28 2016, 10:10 PM Post #511 |
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Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
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My replies are in orange.
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| Spartan | Jul 28 2016, 10:31 PM Post #512 |
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Kleptoparasite
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http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ar.23164/abstract As far as I know that's lower than the lower end for T. rex. ![]() pictures by theropod Edited by Spartan, Jul 28 2016, 10:33 PM.
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| bone crusher | Jul 28 2016, 10:54 PM Post #513 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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You gotta stop putting words in my mouth man, I only said it would be hard for giga to bite if it's pinned down on the ground, say having a t-rex foot on its face. I already said giga could bite multiple times while in the process of getting overpowered by the t-rex. Slash wounds on the body especially wont kill the rex instantly as adrenaline helps keep you moving. And again I'm not saying this happens every time or is easily achieved, but if t-rex positions itself well without getting kicked or bitten in the throat while pinning giga on the ground, then it's over. It's a possibility be it 20% or 50%, but it does tip the odds to rex' favor statistically speaking. |
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| Ausar | Jul 29 2016, 12:06 AM Post #514 |
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Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
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Here's something I've read regarding Tyrannosaurus' bite force.link Interestingly enough, I remember blaze suggesting something similar over a year ago, referring to the same citations the paper above gave. link Edited by Ausar, Jul 29 2016, 12:09 AM.
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| Black Panther | Jul 29 2016, 12:10 AM Post #515 |
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Omnivore
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I'm not putting words in your mouth. It is just that you make it sound like the rex will floor the giga rather then just bite eachother first in the fight when it really wouldn't. And also you are making it sound like it can just tank multiple bites from the giganotosaurus, adrenaline is helpful but it won't slow bloodloss in fact it might actually increase it which will cause it to die quicker. If they both bit eachothers side both would have severe injuries of course but the giganotosaurus would have delt the worst bite since its maw is perfectly designed for bitting larger areas of flesh. The ribs don't matter and would most likely break when bitten. Animals with slicing dentition can and will break bone when they come in contact(generally smaller bones like ribs) the teeth just aren't adapted for bone crunching. |
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| Ausar | Jul 29 2016, 05:01 AM Post #516 |
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Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
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I missed this. Anyway, yes. |
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| SpinoInWonderland | Jul 29 2016, 05:19 AM Post #517 |
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The madness has come back...
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Wouldn't the same apply to every bite force figure for nonavian dinosaurs out there? All bite force estimates for nonavian dinosaurs are dry skull estimates (for obvious reasons). Also, I would be a bit cautious with that sort of thing, it would imply that an ~8-meter long Allosaurus fragilis could bite down with over 26 kilonewtons of force with it's jaw muscles alone (~8724 newtons * 3 = ~26,172 newtons). |
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| Ausar | Jul 29 2016, 05:32 AM Post #518 |
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Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
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I guess so? Well, I guess it is what it is? I dunno, I'm not 100% sure if that's really plausible or not. For what it's worth, Therrien et al. (2005) predict that based off of the bite force of an American alligator and analysis of jaw bending strength that an Allosaurus fragilis would bite even less than that value you've calculated (20,311 N). And this is the same study that calculated that Tyrannosaurus' bite force would reach a whopping ~300 kN. Edited by Ausar, Dec 20 2017, 09:02 AM.
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| Ceratodromeus | Jul 29 2016, 05:44 AM Post #519 |
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Aspiring herpetologist
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\ OK, you just weren't very clear in your initial post. thanks
im not putting words in your mouth and the assertion i have is so laughably ridiculous, i mean its evident you're grasping at straws here with this. c'mon now. your reply to black panther
But i guess you want to play with being vague and contradicting yourself within your comments so that's nice for you. at any rate you are rather wrong, there is no "not necessarily" when being in close proximity in wrestling down another animal -- you are always always always going to be in contact with the animal you are trying to get to the ground -- that's an unarguable facet i'm afraid. Edited by Ceratodromeus, Jul 29 2016, 05:48 AM.
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| HyperNova | Jul 29 2016, 05:48 AM Post #520 |
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Wild Animals Enthusiast
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Forgive my ignorance, but is there any theories about how giganotosaurus use their jaws? Do they bite and pull out for tearing with their serrated teeth? |
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| Ausar | Jul 29 2016, 06:03 AM Post #521 |
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Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
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I guess that's a more or less accurate way of thinking of it. |
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| LeonardosHeir | Jul 29 2016, 06:11 AM Post #522 |
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Herbivore
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Ausar which theropod did your vote go to? |
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| Ausar | Jul 29 2016, 06:12 AM Post #523 |
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Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
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I didn't vote. I don't tend to do that nowadays and I think a fight at similar weights could go either way (50/50). |
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| LeonardosHeir | Jul 29 2016, 06:13 AM Post #524 |
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Herbivore
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Fair enough. I gave my vote to Gigi due to larger bite (not bite force) and it's ability to move its arms to a better advantage. |
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| Carcharadon | Jul 29 2016, 06:15 AM Post #525 |
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Shark Toothed Reptile
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The arms won't be a factor here. Giganotosaurus' arms are hardly much bigger than those of Tyrannosaurus. |
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generally when you wrestle something down you are in very close contact with your opponent, and that's when the giga will get to place it's critical bite. It will surely get more then a "nip" when this is happening, added to the fact that it has 5 foot jaws and is fighting for it's life. A single bite from a giga would easily be just as deadly as a T.rex's bite. 


2:24 AM Jul 14