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| Giganotosaurus carolinii v Tyrannosaurus rex | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 31 2012, 05:48 PM (110,317 Views) | |
| Taipan | Jan 31 2012, 05:48 PM Post #1 |
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Giganotosaurus carolinii Giganotosaurus ("giant southern lizard"), was a carcharodontosaurid dinosaur that lived 93 to 89 million years ago during the Turonian stage of the Late Cretaceous period. It is one of the longest known terrestrial carnivores, bigger than Tyrannosaurus, but in length and weight, smaller than Spinosaurus. Although longer than T. rex, G. carolinii was lighter and had a much smaller braincase that was the size and shape of a banana. A well-developed olfactory region means it probably had a good sense of smell. Titanosaur fossils have been recovered near the remains of Giganotosaurus, leading to speculation that these carnivores may have preyed on the giant herbivores. Fossils of related carcharodontosaurid fossils grouped closely together may indicate pack hunting, a behavior that could possibly extend to Giganotosaurus itself. he holotype specimen's (MUCPv-Ch1) skeleton was about 70% complete and included parts of the skull, a lower jaw, pelvis, hindlimbs and most of the backbone. The premaxillae, jugals, quadratojugals, the back of the lower jaws and the forelimbs are missing. Various estimates find that it measured somewhere between 12.2 and 13 m (40 and 43 ft) in length, and between 6.5 and 13.3 tons in weight. A second, more fragmentary, specimen (MUCPv-95) has also been identified, found in 1987 by Jorge Calvo. It is only known from the front part of the left dentary which is 8% larger than the equivalent bone from the holotype. This largest Giganotosaurus specimen is estimated to represent an individual with a skull length of 195 cm (6.40 ft), compared to the holotype's estimated at 1.80 m (5.9 ft) skull, making it likely that Giganotosaurus had the largest skull of any known theropod. Giganotosaurus surpassed Tyrannosaurus in mass by at least half a ton (the upper size estimate for T. rex is 9.1 t). Additionally several single teeth, discovered from 1987 onwards, have been referred to the species. ![]() Tyrannosaurus rex Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago. It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes. ![]() ______________________________________________________________________________
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| Ausar | Jul 31 2016, 08:04 AM Post #571 |
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Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
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I'm guessing this is about the bulkier torso. If so, well, theropod made a few points about this somewhere else.
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| HyperNova | Jul 31 2016, 11:18 AM Post #572 |
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Wild Animals Enthusiast
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How does giganotosaurus hunted? does he bite off a huge chunk of flesh and let his prey bleed to death? I think giganotosaurus cannot ''grapple'' with his mouth (unlike t-rex), he will broke his jaw if he try to do this. |
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| Lux | Jul 31 2016, 12:44 PM Post #573 |
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Unicellular Organism
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I feel T Rex would be a more capable fighter based on prey items, sauropods are impressive animals to take down but how did Giga do so? I read it was in packs and they didn't really kill the animal where it stood, more so slicing at it either until they were done or the sauropod died. That seems less impressive and less risky than taking out a Triceratops via ambush even. And am I right in saying that T Rex was the quicker of the two? For now I'd say 50/50, I need to brush up on my knowledge before a final judgement xD |
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| bone crusher | Jul 31 2016, 12:54 PM Post #574 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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er, that's a whole bunch of nonsense from him really. Just look at its neck region, hip area and even tail have so much larger muscle attachment than Giga's. And I highly doubt a barrel shaped body like t-rex's would have less muscle attachment than a much slimmer body. Point 2, a wider torso would directly gain robustness since your torso is now more compact than the slimmer one, so in a body to body impact you would receive less damage than a slimmer build due to basic laws of physics. Just look at their corresponding bones, the majority of them are bigger in T-rex's mount, bigger bones means bigger muscle attachment, a more solid build thus more strength especially between two theropods of similar morph. |
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| Carcharadon | Jul 31 2016, 01:10 PM Post #575 |
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Shark Toothed Reptile
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Prey items isn't really a basis for proposing how capable of a fighter a predator is. That'd be like saying a cheetah is a more capable fighter than a sun bear. Although, Andesaurus is the largest sauropod that lived with Giganotosaurus, but it still was small enough that one Giganotosaurus can hunt it. But then again, prey is irrelevant for predator vs predator. |
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| Ceratodromeus | Jul 31 2016, 01:16 PM Post #576 |
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Aspiring herpetologist
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except what he said is actually very valid. |
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| bone crusher | Jul 31 2016, 01:27 PM Post #577 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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Nothing he said reflects what's shown in the giga vs t rex skeletal comparison. Can you honestly tell me t-rex has less muscle mass in that comparison or am I blind? |
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| Lux | Jul 31 2016, 03:15 PM Post #578 |
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Unicellular Organism
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Well, my point was T Rex seems like a more capable fighter. I'm withholding my judgement on who would win until I get a better idea of Giga at least. And a Cheetah and Sun Bear aren't quite the comparison between these multi-ton beasts so..And neither of their prey can compare to what these giants ate. From what you guys have said so far, it does seem to edge towards whoever gets a strong neck bite first |
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| Black Panther | Jul 31 2016, 08:21 PM Post #579 |
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Omnivore
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@bone crusher, the only reason you think its nonsense is cause you don't agree with it.
Edited by Black Panther, Jul 31 2016, 08:23 PM.
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| TheROC | Aug 1 2016, 11:17 PM Post #580 |
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Herbivore
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I think its pretty clear that "Sue" Rex would beat the type specimen for Giganotosaurus. They are the same length and according to Scott Hartman's calculations Sue is almost 24% heavier. (8400kg vs 6800kg) However, Sue is clearly not an average T.Rex, and for now we have to assume the type specimen for Giga is an average Giga since we have few specimens. If you compared the Stan specimen (who is closer to average but still on the bigger side), to the Giga holotype, then I think the Giga wins more often than not. The weight would be comparable, Stan would still be heavier by a bit (8 tons vs 7.48 tons), but Giga becomes noticeably taller and that should give it the edge in leverage and biting positions. At equal weights I would give Giga the slight edge over T.Rex. It's skull would be longer by a bit, and it would be quite a bit taller too. Edited by TheROC, Aug 1 2016, 11:24 PM.
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| Ceratodromeus | Aug 2 2016, 01:04 AM Post #581 |
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Aspiring herpetologist
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this is quite funny, you call it nonsense and then do nothing to refute it. you cannot be making the claims you on the basis of yours eyes, what he has said about a bulkier torso is actually spot on, and your childish denial means nothing. Edited by Ceratodromeus, Aug 2 2016, 01:05 AM.
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| bone crusher | Aug 3 2016, 12:03 AM Post #582 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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We're not seriously using a constrictor snake vs turtle's anatomy as a reference for comparison are we? They (giga and t-rex) are both giant theropods of carnosauria and Coelurosauria groups respectively and share far similarities in anatomy than a snake to a turtle, especially torso wise. Now the barrel shaped torso of t-rex not only covers more surface muscle area, the convex arched body provides more shock resistance to impact thus raising defense greatly. The hip bone of t-rex is relatively much wider and houses more muscle attachment for a bigger thigh and it has a thicker tail which further adds strength to propel the legs for a quick dash. And don't even start the neck, it's about as thick as a Deinosuchus' and almost twice as thick as Giga's in Hartman's comparison. You see it's not a coincidence a t-rex has much more muscle attachment overall, its almost meter wide skull needs tremendous amount of muscle to power the jaws, now you can't have a neck as thin as Giga's to support it can you? And a thicker torso shall support a thick neck and so on. In short you need superior strength to support your heavy set body morphology therefore a lighter set body would require less strength. At equal weight giga is longer, taller and thinner and consequently weaker in strength. It's like how a thick set Neanderthal is far superior in strength than a similar weight modern human. |
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| Black Panther | Aug 3 2016, 12:29 AM Post #583 |
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Omnivore
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Snakes( boas and constrictors) actually use there bodies in hunting and fighting so it's more muscule mass. That's why they have such wide and bulky bodies, a theropod dosent use its body like a snake so it really dosen't matter as much as you make it seem. Just cause an animal has a wider torso doesn't mean it wil beat one with a narrower chest. By your logic a saltosaurus would dominate a t.rex cause it's torso is alot bulikier and wider, and a carnotaurus would convincingly destroy an allosaurus due to its wider chest. Odviously you know the latter would win in both those matches.
Shock resistance from what? They aren't body slamming eachother. And just cause something is shock resistant dosent mean it'll with stand be attacked by dozens of blade like 8 inch teeth. Grasping for straws again.
This is a head to head fight. Not a race. And why wouldn't giganotosaurus have a powerful tail?
Why bring up deinosuchus? T.rex's neck isn't even armored. And giga has DENTITION MEANT FOR CUTTING THROUGH MUCULE AND TISSUE. Unless you are telling me the t.rex's neck is thicker then the neck and body of andeosaurus, but I hope your better then that. yes we know rex has a stronger bite and thicker neck. Giga can counter both of those as I have already explained. Get a new argument. yes, extra muscule to support its head an neck, it's not just a whole bunch of extra muscule for wrestling and biting. you are just reappearing your self over and over again. And look at theropod's post disproving that. And giga's bite us well equipped for taking on larger bodied foes. Edited by Black Panther, Aug 3 2016, 12:32 AM.
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| Ceratodromeus | Aug 3 2016, 01:04 AM Post #584 |
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Aspiring herpetologist
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if this didn't come off as nothing but a rant filled with nothing but your words for support i might have given this a try. Edited by Ceratodromeus, Aug 3 2016, 01:05 AM.
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| Gyirin | Aug 3 2016, 01:05 AM Post #585 |
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Omnivore
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This thread still going? I though it ended like months ago. |
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