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Giganotosaurus carolinii v Tyrannosaurus rex
Topic Started: Jan 31 2012, 05:48 PM (110,314 Views)
Taipan
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Giganotosaurus carolinii
Giganotosaurus ("giant southern lizard"), was a carcharodontosaurid dinosaur that lived 93 to 89 million years ago during the Turonian stage of the Late Cretaceous period. It is one of the longest known terrestrial carnivores, bigger than Tyrannosaurus, but in length and weight, smaller than Spinosaurus. Although longer than T. rex, G. carolinii was lighter and had a much smaller braincase that was the size and shape of a banana. A well-developed olfactory region means it probably had a good sense of smell. Titanosaur fossils have been recovered near the remains of Giganotosaurus, leading to speculation that these carnivores may have preyed on the giant herbivores. Fossils of related carcharodontosaurid fossils grouped closely together may indicate pack hunting, a behavior that could possibly extend to Giganotosaurus itself. he holotype specimen's (MUCPv-Ch1) skeleton was about 70% complete and included parts of the skull, a lower jaw, pelvis, hindlimbs and most of the backbone. The premaxillae, jugals, quadratojugals, the back of the lower jaws and the forelimbs are missing. Various estimates find that it measured somewhere between 12.2 and 13 m (40 and 43 ft) in length, and between 6.5 and 13.3 tons in weight. A second, more fragmentary, specimen (MUCPv-95) has also been identified, found in 1987 by Jorge Calvo. It is only known from the front part of the left dentary which is 8% larger than the equivalent bone from the holotype. This largest Giganotosaurus specimen is estimated to represent an individual with a skull length of 195 cm (6.40 ft), compared to the holotype's estimated at 1.80 m (5.9 ft) skull, making it likely that Giganotosaurus had the largest skull of any known theropod. Giganotosaurus surpassed Tyrannosaurus in mass by at least half a ton (the upper size estimate for T. rex is 9.1 t). Additionally several single teeth, discovered from 1987 onwards, have been referred to the species.

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Tyrannosaurus rex
Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago. It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes.

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Prehistoric Cat
Jan 31 2012, 04:53 PM
Giganotosaurus VS Tyrannosaurus
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Megasaurus
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LordKiller1001
May 13 2017, 04:34 PM
I mostly disagree, Sue the tyrannosaurus was taller (by a bit) than the giganotosaurus holotype , giganotosaurus is likely anything heavier than tyrannosaurus. In my opinion it is a 60% chances of winning for rex and 40% chances for giganotosaurus
I mostly disagree, Sue the tyrannosaurus was taller (by a bit) than the giganotosaurus holotype , giganotosaurus is likely anything heavier than tyrannosaurus. In my opinion it is a 60% chances of winning for rex and 40% chances for giganotosaurus
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No giga holotype is same height or highter than Sue.T rex heavier
https://www.google.cz/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjin8LAxuzTAhUDahoKHaRgBqgQFggoMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.skeletaldrawing.com%2Fhome%2Fmass-estimates-north-vs-south-redux772013&usg=AFQjCNG4OY1y0uF8pvMkN8sXYTjNNR8fwQ
Edited by Megasaurus, May 13 2017, 06:59 PM.
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moldovan0731
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I would say 60/40 in favour of T. rex.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5457/31301763275_265d3c74a4_b.jpg
Edited by moldovan0731, Jul 2 2018, 01:21 AM.
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bone crusher
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So according to some new update the legendary T Rex specimen UCMP 137538 "big phalanx" actually had a similar sized toe as Sue's but still wider at the midshaft by 1mm. So it could potentially be heavier maybe at 8800 kg?
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Spartan
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Which new update?


need five words
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bone crusher
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http://asier-larramendi.deviantart.com/art/The-king-T-rex-563547842
Quote:
 
I've checked by myself and I got nearly the same numbers, just 1 mm of difference on midshaft width. All in all, UCMP 137538 specimen may belonged to an animal similar in size to Sue, although might be somewhat heavier at 8.5-8.7 t. Although it should be noted that estimating from so poor material and considering that the length of tyranosaurs phalanges could be variable, the mass estimates is just very approximate.

It's more or less in the same ballpark.


Also a new GDI on Sue was done which yields a 8830 kg weight. Judging by the skeletal restoration it appears to be perfectly fit, not overweight or shrink wrapped and falls right in between Hartman's 8400 kg and Hutchinson's 9500 kg. There's a very detailed description on how he attained the result in the article.
http://franoys.deviantart.com/journal/Tyrannosaurus-rex-size-682386614
You can also see his findings on other theropods using the same GDI method.
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The mass of 8830 kg of Tyrannosaurus (FMNH PR 2081) is ofered in contrast to that of 7560 kg of Spinosaurus (MNSM v 4047) , 6840 kg in Giganotosaurus (Mucpv Ch1), 6400 kg in Tyrannotitan (MPEF pv 1157), 6325 kg in Carcharodontosaurus (SGM din 1) and 6110 kg in Acrocanthosaurus (NCSM 14345). Therefore according to theese studies Tyrannosaurus rex would be the largest theropod dinosaur between those described.

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Spartan
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How is that a new update when it's over a year older than Snively's response who says the toe bone belonged to an animal probably slightly smaller than Sue?
Anyway, I'm looking forward to his new publication:

Quote:
 
You might be interested to hear about recent mass estimates for Sue. It was big; there’s no way around it. We have a paper coming out soon with an estimate of 9.2 +/- half a tonne, a range that about covers Scott Hartman’s earlier estimates and John Hutchinson et al.’s (2011) “lean” estimate. (The paper will also correct the SVP abstract’s estimates for the UCMP phalanx.) Our middle and upper estimates for Sue have realistically broad tails, following Heinrich Mallison’s study of adult crocodilians. The tail muscles are sensitive to the size of their most robust origins. The depth of the caudal centra dictates the width of m. caufofemoralis longus, and the centra are deeper in tyrannosaurs than other big theropods (or scaled-up crocs and lizards) of the same overall length. Other tail muscles scale to the size of the ilium and ischium, also big in tyrannosaurs. They had a lot of muscle mass where it counts.


(also from his response to user Grey)
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bone crusher
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I honestly had no idea who Snively is and what kind of updates he's been making regarding the issue but sounds like he's a professional and very well informed indeed. Do you have a link to his homepage or something? Looking forward to his publication too! Also is it just me or it seems like Sue's weight is gradually going up throughout the course, it might eventually be settled with a 9000 kg as a consensus.
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Spartan
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He's a researcher at the University of Wisconsin:

http://eric-snively-uwlax.com/

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Eric_Snively

Yeah, T. rex really seems to be an anomaly in this regard. While most extinct giants get downsized over time the tyrant king just keeps getting more massive.
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bone crusher
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Just found some interesting data on Scotty tho it's from 2014's paper by Roger B. J. Benson on "Rates of Dinosaur Body Mass Evolution Indicate 170 Million Years of Sustained Ecological Innovation on the Avian Stem Lineage"
http://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1001853#pbio.1001853.s011
From the Excel spreadsheet he mentioned Scotty's femur length as 1333 mm compared to 1321 mm for Sue. Also Scotty's femur circumference is 570 mm but no data for Sue's (apparently it's 580 mm for Sue?). In terms of Tibia length, Scotty is 1140 mm vs 1185 mm for Sue.
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Wombatman
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Spartan
May 25 2017, 08:40 PM
How is that a new update when it's over a year older than Snively's response who says the toe bone belonged to an animal probably slightly smaller than Sue?
Anyway, I'm looking forward to his new publication:

Quote:
 
You might be interested to hear about recent mass estimates for Sue. It was big; there’s no way around it. We have a paper coming out soon with an estimate of 9.2 +/- half a tonne, a range that about covers Scott Hartman’s earlier estimates and John Hutchinson et al.’s (2011) “lean” estimate. (The paper will also correct the SVP abstract’s estimates for the UCMP phalanx.) Our middle and upper estimates for Sue have realistically broad tails, following Heinrich Mallison’s study of adult crocodilians. The tail muscles are sensitive to the size of their most robust origins. The depth of the caudal centra dictates the width of m. caufofemoralis longus, and the centra are deeper in tyrannosaurs than other big theropods (or scaled-up crocs and lizards) of the same overall length. Other tail muscles scale to the size of the ilium and ischium, also big in tyrannosaurs. They had a lot of muscle mass where it counts.


(also from his response to user Grey)
On this topic, whenever you see a big theropod reconstruction, consider that the tail is probably shown too thin. Almost always.
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moldovan0731
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The comparison: http://imgur.com/exL2cql (I need five words).
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bone crusher
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Wombatman
May 27 2017, 01:21 AM
Spartan
May 25 2017, 08:40 PM
How is that a new update when it's over a year older than Snively's response who says the toe bone belonged to an animal probably slightly smaller than Sue?
Anyway, I'm looking forward to his new publication:

Quote:
 
You might be interested to hear about recent mass estimates for Sue. It was big; there’s no way around it. We have a paper coming out soon with an estimate of 9.2 +/- half a tonne, a range that about covers Scott Hartman’s earlier estimates and John Hutchinson et al.’s (2011) “lean” estimate. (The paper will also correct the SVP abstract’s estimates for the UCMP phalanx.) Our middle and upper estimates for Sue have realistically broad tails, following Heinrich Mallison’s study of adult crocodilians. The tail muscles are sensitive to the size of their most robust origins. The depth of the caudal centra dictates the width of m. caufofemoralis longus, and the centra are deeper in tyrannosaurs than other big theropods (or scaled-up crocs and lizards) of the same overall length. Other tail muscles scale to the size of the ilium and ischium, also big in tyrannosaurs. They had a lot of muscle mass where it counts.


(also from his response to user Grey)
On this topic, whenever you see a big theropod reconstruction, consider that the tail is probably shown too thin. Almost always.
Scott Hartman is one of the few who properly added bulky tail muscle for T Rex in his last article.
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Kiryu2012
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I'm gonna go ahead and side with the Tyrannosaurus for its stronger bite and experience in taking on deadlier prey.
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Skuller_One
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Sometimes , images explains everything ...

Posted Image

Especially , look at skulls ...
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Kazanshin
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Skuller_One
Sep 23 2017, 07:25 PM
Sometimes , images explains everything ...

Posted Image

Especially , look at skulls ...
For once, we agree. Rex takes this.
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