Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Carnivora. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 44
Giganotosaurus carolinii v Tyrannosaurus rex
Topic Started: Jan 31 2012, 05:48 PM (110,311 Views)
Taipan
Member Avatar
Administrator

Giganotosaurus carolinii
Giganotosaurus ("giant southern lizard"), was a carcharodontosaurid dinosaur that lived 93 to 89 million years ago during the Turonian stage of the Late Cretaceous period. It is one of the longest known terrestrial carnivores, bigger than Tyrannosaurus, but in length and weight, smaller than Spinosaurus. Although longer than T. rex, G. carolinii was lighter and had a much smaller braincase that was the size and shape of a banana. A well-developed olfactory region means it probably had a good sense of smell. Titanosaur fossils have been recovered near the remains of Giganotosaurus, leading to speculation that these carnivores may have preyed on the giant herbivores. Fossils of related carcharodontosaurid fossils grouped closely together may indicate pack hunting, a behavior that could possibly extend to Giganotosaurus itself. he holotype specimen's (MUCPv-Ch1) skeleton was about 70% complete and included parts of the skull, a lower jaw, pelvis, hindlimbs and most of the backbone. The premaxillae, jugals, quadratojugals, the back of the lower jaws and the forelimbs are missing. Various estimates find that it measured somewhere between 12.2 and 13 m (40 and 43 ft) in length, and between 6.5 and 13.3 tons in weight. A second, more fragmentary, specimen (MUCPv-95) has also been identified, found in 1987 by Jorge Calvo. It is only known from the front part of the left dentary which is 8% larger than the equivalent bone from the holotype. This largest Giganotosaurus specimen is estimated to represent an individual with a skull length of 195 cm (6.40 ft), compared to the holotype's estimated at 1.80 m (5.9 ft) skull, making it likely that Giganotosaurus had the largest skull of any known theropod. Giganotosaurus surpassed Tyrannosaurus in mass by at least half a ton (the upper size estimate for T. rex is 9.1 t). Additionally several single teeth, discovered from 1987 onwards, have been referred to the species.

Posted Image

Tyrannosaurus rex
Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago. It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes.

Posted Image

______________________________________________________________________________


Prehistoric Cat
Jan 31 2012, 04:53 PM
Giganotosaurus VS Tyrannosaurus
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Replies:
Thalassophoneus
Member Avatar
Pelagic Killer
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
WaffleKing
Feb 27 2018, 11:38 AM
Thalassophoneus
Feb 26 2018, 11:03 PM
Marsupial
Feb 26 2018, 10:45 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepPosted Image
Posted Image
Not really. Tyrannosaurus was a better runner than other theropods of its size cause it had stronger and proportionally longer legs.
This is false.

New studies show that Trex may have not been able to run at all.
http://physicstoday.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/1.1480769

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/07/tyrannosaur-trex-running-speed/

New studies suggest that T-rex wouldn't have been much of a runner at all: It would have buckled and tripped under its own weight.

https://qz.com/1042454/how-fast-could-tyrannosaurus-rex-run-not-very/

However, the top speed of a Giganotosaurus has estimated to be up to 31mph, which is atleast 10mph faster than the 20mph estimate for a T-rex.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrannosaurus#Locomotion

Thomas Holtz Jr. echoed these sentiments in his 2013 lecture, stating that the giant allosaurs had shorter feet for the same body size than Tyrannosaurus, whereas Tyrannosaurus had longer, skinnier and more interlocked feet for the same body size; attributes of faster moving animals.[90]

A study by Eric Snively and Anthony P. Russel published in 2003 also found that the tyrannosaurid arctometatarsals and elastic ligaments worked together in what he called a 'tensile keystone model' to strengthen the feet of Tyrannosaurus, increase the animal's stability and add greater resistance to dissociation over that of other theropod families; while still allowing resiliency that is otherwise reduced in ratites, horses, giraffids and other animals with metapodia to a single element. The study also pointed out that elastic ligaments in larger vertebrates could store and return relatively more elastic strain energy, which could have improved locomotor efficiency and decrease the strain energy transferred to the bones. The study suggested that this mechanism could have worked efficiently in tyrannosaurids as well. Hence, the study involved identifying the type of ligaments attached to the metatarsals, then how they functioned together and comparing it to those of other theropods and modern day analogs. The scientists found that arctometatarsals may have enabled tyrannosaurid feet to absorb forces such as linear deceleration, lateral acceleration and torsion more effectively than those of other theropods. It is also stated in their study that this may imply, though not demonstrate, that tyrannosaurids such as Tyrannosaurus had greater agility than other large theropods without an arctometatarsus.[135]

In another study, Gregory S. Paul pointed out that the flexed kneed and digitigrade adult Tyrannosaurus were much better adapted for running than elephants or humans, pointing out that Tyrannosaurus had a large ilium bone and cnemial crest that would have supported large muscles needed for running. He also mentioned that Alexander's (1989) formula to calculate speed by bone strength was only partly reliable. He suggests that the formula is overly sensitive to bone length; making long bones artificially weak.

In July 2017, a study by William Sellers et al., published in the journal PeerJ found that an adult Tyrannosaurus was incapable of running due to very high skeletal loads. The study used the latest computing technology to test its findings. The researchers used two different structural mechanical systems to create the computer model. The weight they settled on for their calculations was a conservative estimate of 7 tons. The model showed that speeds above 11 mph (18 km/h) would have probably shattered the leg bones of Tyrannosaurus. The finding may mean that running was also not possible for other giant theropod dinosaurs like Giganotosaurus, Mapusaurus and Acrocanthosaurus.[148]

https://comments.deviantart.com/1/173333349/2714763839

Scott Hartman
 
Allosaurs simply aren't meant for speed - and the problem gets worse in the big guys like Acrocanthosaurus and Giganotosaurus. But then their prey tends to be sauropod and (for Allosaurus at least) stegosaur based, so most of their prey isn't running away. Even Camptosaurus was pretty clunky by ornithiscian standards. Small fast prey like Othnielosaurus were hunted by small theropods.

It doesn't seem to be until the Cretaceous (and really the Late Cretaceous) that non-sauropod dinosaurs combined size and (relative) speed into one package that necessitated big predators that could catch them.
Edited by Thalassophoneus, Feb 28 2018, 03:27 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ausar
Member Avatar
Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
WaffleKing
Feb 27 2018, 11:38 AM
Thalassophoneus
Feb 26 2018, 11:03 PM
Marsupial
Feb 26 2018, 10:45 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepPosted Image
Posted Image
Not really. Tyrannosaurus was a better runner than other theropods of its size cause it had stronger and proportionally longer legs.
This is false.

New studies show that Trex may have not been able to run at all.
http://physicstoday.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/1.1480769

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/07/tyrannosaur-trex-running-speed/

New studies suggest that T-rex wouldn't have been much of a runner at all: It would have buckled and tripped under its own weight.

https://qz.com/1042454/how-fast-could-tyrannosaurus-rex-run-not-very/

However, the top speed of a Giganotosaurus has estimated to be up to 31mph, which is atleast 10mph faster than the 20mph estimate for a T-rex.
For the sake of simplicity I’ll ignore every point of contention people have brought up about that study. So aside from that, think for a second. If Tyrannosaurus cannot run beyond a certain speed, what makes you think a Giganotosaurus, which was anatomically less built for speed than Tyrannosaurus (some evidence of which has been shown to you by Thalassophoneus), can? The 31 mph estimate for the carnosaur certainly wasn’t deduced from the same methods as the most recent estimates for Tyrannosaurus’ speed. So, you know, maybe it’s outdated?
Edited by Ausar, Feb 28 2018, 02:33 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
WaffleKing
Member Avatar
Heterotrophic Organism
[ *  *  * ]
Ausar
Feb 28 2018, 02:32 AM
WaffleKing
Feb 27 2018, 11:38 AM
Thalassophoneus
Feb 26 2018, 11:03 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepPosted Image
Posted Image
This is false.

New studies show that Trex may have not been able to run at all.
http://physicstoday.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/1.1480769

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/07/tyrannosaur-trex-running-speed/

New studies suggest that T-rex wouldn't have been much of a runner at all: It would have buckled and tripped under its own weight.

https://qz.com/1042454/how-fast-could-tyrannosaurus-rex-run-not-very/

However, the top speed of a Giganotosaurus has estimated to be up to 31mph, which is atleast 10mph faster than the 20mph estimate for a T-rex.
For the sake of simplicity I’ll ignore every point of contention people have brought up about that study. So aside from that, think for a second. If Tyrannosaurus cannot run beyond a certain speed, what makes you think a Giganotosaurus, which was anatomically less built for speed than Tyrannosaurus (some evidence of which has been shown to you by Thalassophoneus), can? The 31 mph estimate for the carnosaur certainly wasn’t deduced from the same methods as the most recent estimates for Tyrannosaurus’ speed. So, you know, maybe it’s outdated?
It's possible that it could be outdated, regardless alot more studies have been done with T-rex so it's measurements are probably the most reliable.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ausar
Member Avatar
Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
What is that second "it's" in your post referring to? The 2001 Blanco & Mazzetta study that estimated 31 miles per hour? The recent studies that attempt to estimate Tyrannosaurus' top speed?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
WaffleKing
Member Avatar
Heterotrophic Organism
[ *  *  * ]
Ausar
Feb 28 2018, 05:43 AM
What is that second "it's" in your post referring to? The 2001 Blanco & Mazzetta study that estimated 31 miles per hour? The recent studies that attempt to estimate Tyrannosaurus' top speed?
By its I was referring to the T-rex
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ausar
Member Avatar
Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
WaffleKing
Feb 28 2018, 10:06 AM
Ausar
Feb 28 2018, 05:43 AM
What is that second "it's" in your post referring to? The 2001 Blanco & Mazzetta study that estimated 31 miles per hour? The recent studies that attempt to estimate Tyrannosaurus' top speed?
By its I was referring to the T-rex
Okay, then yes, they are most likely closer to the truth.

And the estimate for Giganotosaurus is not. If we were to apply more rigorous, modern techniques to estimate Giganotosaurus' speed, we would not be finding that it could run 31 miles per hour or 55% faster than another gigantic theropod in its own size range, and one that's actually even more adapted for speed than it is.

This is just in case you still believe that Giganotosaurus is really that much faster than Tyrannosaurus.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Thalassophoneus
Member Avatar
Pelagic Killer
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Ausar
Feb 28 2018, 11:41 AM
WaffleKing
Feb 28 2018, 10:06 AM
Ausar
Feb 28 2018, 05:43 AM
What is that second "it's" in your post referring to? The 2001 Blanco & Mazzetta study that estimated 31 miles per hour? The recent studies that attempt to estimate Tyrannosaurus' top speed?
By its I was referring to the T-rex
Okay, then yes, they are most likely closer to the truth.

And the estimate for Giganotosaurus is not. If we were to apply more rigorous, modern techniques to estimate Giganotosaurus' speed, we would not be finding that it could run 31 miles per hour or 55% faster than another gigantic theropod in its own size range, and one that's actually even more adapted for speed than it is.

This is just in case you still believe that Giganotosaurus is really that much faster than Tyrannosaurus.
A simple look at the above picture can give someone a few hints that Tyrannosaurus was a better runner. Its legs are more robust, its femur is shorter than its tibia and fibula, which if I am not wrong is an adaptation for running, and the ilium of Tyrannosaurus is huge in comparison to the ilium of Giganotosaurus.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Migatte
Member Avatar
Unicellular Organism
[ * ]
Thalassophoneus
Feb 28 2018, 03:24 PM
Ausar
Feb 28 2018, 11:41 AM
WaffleKing
Feb 28 2018, 10:06 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepTyrannosaurus
Okay, then yes, they are most likely closer to the truth.

And the estimate for Giganotosaurus is not. If we were to apply more rigorous, modern techniques to estimate Giganotosaurus' speed, we would not be finding that it could run 31 miles per hour or 55% faster than another gigantic theropod in its own size range, and one that's actually even more adapted for speed than it is.

This is just in case you still believe that Giganotosaurus is really that much faster than Tyrannosaurus.
A simple look at the above picture can give someone a few hints that Tyrannosaurus was a better runner. Its legs are more robust, its femur is shorter than its tibia and fibula, which if I am not wrong is an adaptation for running, and the ilium of Tyrannosaurus is huge in comparison to the ilium of Giganotosaurus.
Definitely, as the thought of a predator less built for running is somehow faster than one that is adapted for running would glitch the universe.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Drift
Member Avatar
High Spined Lizard
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Migatte
Feb 22 2018, 07:30 AM
IMO, this is an even match. G. carollini is slightly larger, but T. rex had the stronger bite. At parity, the coelurosaurian has the advantage, but with the size advantage of the giganotosaurini, it evens out.
Agreed, it's one of the few match-ups with both animals offset each other with their evolutionary advantages.This is also one of the few times it really would matter which one attacked successfully first,Severe hemorrhaging or rapid blood loss are the key factors.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
populator135
Member Avatar
Heterotrophic Organism
[ *  *  * ]
The opinion of a dinosaur expert
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IN_kjx0eNk
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
bone crusher
Heterotrophic Organism
[ *  *  * ]
Take a look at the 3d comparison of Stan and the theoretical maximum size of the mucpv-95 Giganotosaurus specimen. Even then Stan looks much more bulkier and robustly built. Check out each of their respective individual bones and you'll see how much bigger they are in the T Rex.
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/LwYOl
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
And comparison with Sue
Posted Image
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/QQDKL
It's not a fair match. 80-20 Sue, 65-35 Stan. Giga is pretty much a middle weight next to a super heavy weight.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
moldovan0731
Member Avatar
Heterotrophic Organism
[ *  *  * ]
bone crusher
Jun 10 2018, 10:46 PM
Take a look at the 3d comparison of Stan and the theoretical maximum size of the mucpv-95 Giganotosaurus specimen. Even then Stan looks much more bulkier and robustly built. Check out each of their respective individual bones and you'll see how much bigger they are in the T Rex.
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/LwYOl
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
And comparison with Sue
Posted Image
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/QQDKL
It's not a fair match. 80-20 Sue, 65-35 Stan. Giga is pretty much a middle weight next to a super heavy weight.
While T. rex was definitely bulkier, I've seen pictures of the mounted skeleton of Sue from the front, and it's not THAT bulky:
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Also, the skeletal made by Franoys (which is clearly more reliable than this vitamin imagination thing) is also less bulky from dorsal view as well:
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Edited by moldovan0731, Jul 2 2018, 01:18 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ausar
Member Avatar
Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
From eyeballing Vitamin Imagination's does look wider, but not too terribly.
Edited by Ausar, Jul 2 2018, 02:36 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
bone crusher
Heterotrophic Organism
[ *  *  * ]
Yeah it's slightly wider than Franoy's but not too off the mark. Either case, both of their restoration are much wider than Giga's.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
« Previous Topic · Dinosauria Interspecific Conflict · Next Topic »
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 44

Find this theme on Forum2Forum.net & ZNR exclusively.