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Giganotosaurus carolinii v Tyrannosaurus rex
Topic Started: Jan 31 2012, 05:48 PM (110,351 Views)
Taipan
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Giganotosaurus carolinii
Giganotosaurus ("giant southern lizard"), was a carcharodontosaurid dinosaur that lived 93 to 89 million years ago during the Turonian stage of the Late Cretaceous period. It is one of the longest known terrestrial carnivores, bigger than Tyrannosaurus, but in length and weight, smaller than Spinosaurus. Although longer than T. rex, G. carolinii was lighter and had a much smaller braincase that was the size and shape of a banana. A well-developed olfactory region means it probably had a good sense of smell. Titanosaur fossils have been recovered near the remains of Giganotosaurus, leading to speculation that these carnivores may have preyed on the giant herbivores. Fossils of related carcharodontosaurid fossils grouped closely together may indicate pack hunting, a behavior that could possibly extend to Giganotosaurus itself. he holotype specimen's (MUCPv-Ch1) skeleton was about 70% complete and included parts of the skull, a lower jaw, pelvis, hindlimbs and most of the backbone. The premaxillae, jugals, quadratojugals, the back of the lower jaws and the forelimbs are missing. Various estimates find that it measured somewhere between 12.2 and 13 m (40 and 43 ft) in length, and between 6.5 and 13.3 tons in weight. A second, more fragmentary, specimen (MUCPv-95) has also been identified, found in 1987 by Jorge Calvo. It is only known from the front part of the left dentary which is 8% larger than the equivalent bone from the holotype. This largest Giganotosaurus specimen is estimated to represent an individual with a skull length of 195 cm (6.40 ft), compared to the holotype's estimated at 1.80 m (5.9 ft) skull, making it likely that Giganotosaurus had the largest skull of any known theropod. Giganotosaurus surpassed Tyrannosaurus in mass by at least half a ton (the upper size estimate for T. rex is 9.1 t). Additionally several single teeth, discovered from 1987 onwards, have been referred to the species.

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Tyrannosaurus rex
Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago. It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes.

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Prehistoric Cat
Jan 31 2012, 04:53 PM
Giganotosaurus VS Tyrannosaurus
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Taurus
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Lay it off with calling names, Darkgricer. That is what it gets you banned from the old Carnivora.

Trex has serrated teeth as well which you forget about.
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Drift
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DarkGricer
Feb 5 2012, 06:44 AM
7Alx
Feb 5 2012, 04:53 AM
Actually Giganotosaurus could run only at 10-20 mph. It wasn't even as fast as Tyrannosaurus.T.rex was also faster due arctometatarsal, which is in ornithomimosaurs, troodontids and oviraptorosaurs too. I know tyrannosaurs were in fact slower than smaller long-legged coelurosaurs, but they were sill faster than giant carnosaurs like Giganotosaurus.

Secondly, there are smaller sauropods like Limaysaurus living in the same place and time as Giganotosaurus. Of course there were probably ornitopods, but Giga would be ambush hunter, so great speed would be unnecessary.
Then explain me why T.rex was an ambush hunter as well. rolleyes

@Taurus: Sure T.rex's bone crushign bite would be a force to be reckoned with, but the damage done by it pales in comparising to the huge slices of Giga's scicor jaws.

BTW: You should look at your own posts before saying anythign about mine, Mr.IKnowEverythingAndAnOpinionIsSomethingThatDoesNotExist.
I don't really know why your comparing a bite like T-rex's could crush bones aside from tearing flesh off due to the serrations on its teeth.At best Giganotosaurus's bite at best could slice off a good amount of flesh from one of the Tyrannosaurs flanks (at best)
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DarkGricer
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Taurus
Feb 5 2012, 06:49 AM
Lay it off with calling names, Darkgricer. That is what it gets you banned from the old Carnivora.

Trex has serrated teeth as well which you forget about.
Stop threathening me with that!

@Taurus and Drift: God! T.rex's teeth are round and made to crush. Giganotosaurus basicly has a bunch of swords in its mouth. Even IF T.rex's teath could become good slicing teeth with serations alone, it's slicing capabilities would PALE in comparising to those of Giganotosaurus. There is a reason why Carnosaurs sacrificed jaw strength to evolve blades. + T.rex's skull shape would limit it's scizor jaw capabilities anyway.
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Drift
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DarkGricer
Feb 5 2012, 07:24 AM
Taurus
Feb 5 2012, 06:49 AM
Lay it off with calling names, Darkgricer. That is what it gets you banned from the old Carnivora.

Trex has serrated teeth as well which you forget about.
Stop threathening me with that!

@Taurus and Drift: God! T.rex's teeth are round and made to crush. Giganotosaurus basicly has a bunch of swords in its mouth. Even IF T.rex's teath could become good slicing teeth with serations alone, it's slicing capabilities would PALE in comparising to those of Giganotosaurus. There is a reason why Carnosaurs sacrificed jaw strength to evolve blades. + T.rex's skull shape would limit it's scizor jaw capabilities anyway.
I wasn't saying thats its only ability,I was merely stating T-rex teeth have serrations.A small addition to an otherwise overwhelming bite which would be sufficient in putting a giganotosaurus down.
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DarkGricer
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Drift
Feb 5 2012, 08:09 AM
DarkGricer
Feb 5 2012, 07:24 AM
Taurus
Feb 5 2012, 06:49 AM
Lay it off with calling names, Darkgricer. That is what it gets you banned from the old Carnivora.

Trex has serrated teeth as well which you forget about.
Stop threathening me with that!

@Taurus and Drift: God! T.rex's teeth are round and made to crush. Giganotosaurus basicly has a bunch of swords in its mouth. Even IF T.rex's teath could become good slicing teeth with serations alone, it's slicing capabilities would PALE in comparising to those of Giganotosaurus. There is a reason why Carnosaurs sacrificed jaw strength to evolve blades. + T.rex's skull shape would limit it's scizor jaw capabilities anyway.
I wasn't saying thats its only ability,I was merely stating T-rex teeth have serrations.A small addition to an otherwise overwhelming bite which would be sufficient in putting a giganotosaurus down.
But not with one bite. Or at least not if it hits an area like the chest or a leg. If it grabs the neck and has enough time to crush it, then yeah, of course it will be a 1 bite kill. But the same goes for Giga. (Minus the crushing thing. It would just tear it open.

BTW: I posted a message to Taurus, Anonymous, Bright Nights and a little bit to you, Drift on the forum.
Edited by DarkGricer, Feb 5 2012, 08:15 AM.
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ShadowPredator
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@ Taurus: I never said I completely agreed with him, I said there are ways for Giga to kill Rex and there are certainly ways for Rex to kill Giga,
I don't fully agreed or disagree

And yes I did think of that Tourus; with pics of these two in my animal book of awesomeness and total completeness, I've noticed something, in every pic Rex looks very unstable compared to Giga, Carcharo, and Spino; not only this but a fall would be more devastating for Rex than Giga because Giga's arms can break it fall, while Rex has nothing, so all this intern means that a good push from Giga can end this fight quickly

Also a word to you Rex people; if your using Sue as the Rex in this fight or using a Rex of similar size, why can't we use the largest possible Giga? Why don't we just do averages, something like "Stan" and face it against an average sized Giga?
Edited by ShadowPredator, Feb 5 2012, 08:18 AM.
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DarkGricer
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ShadowPredator
Feb 5 2012, 08:17 AM
Also a word to you Rex people; if your using Sue as the Rex in this fight or using a Rex of similar size, why can't we use the largest possible Giga? Why don't we just do averages, something like "Stan" and face it against an average sized Giga?
A very good point you've got there. 1 I've pointed out before as well. (Not sure if it was on this site, tough. I just know I did.)
Edited by DarkGricer, Feb 5 2012, 08:25 AM.
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Anomonyous
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DarkGricer
Feb 5 2012, 04:13 AM
1: Its a Charcarodontosaurid. It hunts Sauropods, but not every single day! Look at Chased by Dinosaurs. It showed Giganotosaurus chasing after and killing an Iguanodont. + if you are trying to say young Sauropods are wimpy little wimps that can't do anything to a Predator like Giganotosaurus, then you need to get your head fixed. Everytime it would hunt Sauropods, a Giganotosaurus would risk being crushes, trampled, get its neck broken by a giant tail, ect, ect. These young could be more dangerous than a Triceratops, dependign on thier age. Oh, and did I tell you that they'd have to get past the friggin ADULTS to?!

2: Perhaps it could be the scizor jaws, who make every bit disableing and potentialy lethal. Imagin if it bit a leg. Wit so many of your leg muscles disabled, that leg would be pretty useless. It could also be the size advantage, grantign it strength, or it could be superior speed and agility. Oh, wait. Now that I think of it, its all of those things combined!
1. It hunts juvenile sauropods. Juveniles are relatively slow animals (just like the adults) but they take more to bring down.

Lions don't hunt calves surrounded by other elephants, that attack them when they're alone. Giganotosaurus would have attacked stragglers.

How dangerous they prey item is does not mean as much as what sort of weaponry is needed to tackle it. Giga has slicing teeth and a large mouth gape. Tyrannosaurus has (likely) faster reflexes, seeing that the prey were quicker, greater intelligence, binocular vision, and a massive bite force.

2. Giganotosaurus biting tyrannosaurus' leg? How would it get past those jaws? Giganotosaurus has a length advantage, not a height advantage, and length is pretty useless here. Strength matters nothing in a fight where both combatants are biting.

Giganotosaurus has speed and agility? Where did you get that? It has neither.

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Look at the hips and legs. Note that tyrannosaurus appears to be more cursorial; the hips have more area for muscle attachment and the tibia and femur are closer in length.

3. I saw that thread you made about me, Taurus, and Bright Nights. Well, sorry, but I argue as I see it.



Edited by Anomonyous, Feb 5 2012, 12:08 PM.
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Anomonyous
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ShadowPredator
Feb 5 2012, 08:17 AM
@ Taurus: I never said I completely agreed with him, I said there are ways for Giga to kill Rex and there are certainly ways for Rex to kill Giga,
I don't fully agreed or disagree

And yes I did think of that Tourus; with pics of these two in my animal book of awesomeness and total completeness, I've noticed something, in every pic Rex looks very unstable compared to Giga, Carcharo, and Spino; not only this but a fall would be more devastating for Rex than Giga because Giga's arms can break it fall, while Rex has nothing, so all this intern means that a good push from Giga can end this fight quickly

Also a word to you Rex people; if your using Sue as the Rex in this fight or using a Rex of similar size, why can't we use the largest possible Giga? Why don't we just do averages, something like "Stan" and face it against an average sized Giga?
Unfortunately for DarkGricer the largest giganotosaurus is probably no more than 46 feet, at best.
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Anomonyous
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DarkGricer
Feb 5 2012, 06:44 AM
Then explain me why T.rex was an ambush hunter as well. rolleyes

@Taurus: Sure T.rex's bone crushign bite would be a force to be reckoned with, but the damage done by it pales in comparising to the huge slices of Giga's scicor jaws.

BTW: You should look at your own posts before saying anythign about mine, Mr.IKnowEverythingAndAnOpinionIsSomethingThatDoesNotExist.
It wasn't. Unless you'd like to go argue with Thomas Holtz?

Tyrannosaurus can slice as well. I'm wondering why you didn't see my picture of the jaws. In fact, I believe I've gone over how tyrannosaurus' teeth could slice several times before.
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Anomonyous
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DarkGricer
Feb 5 2012, 07:24 AM
Stop threathening me with that!

@Taurus and Drift: God! T.rex's teeth are round and made to crush. Giganotosaurus basicly has a bunch of swords in its mouth. Even IF T.rex's teath could become good slicing teeth with serations alone, it's slicing capabilities would PALE in comparising to those of Giganotosaurus. There is a reason why Carnosaurs sacrificed jaw strength to evolve blades. + T.rex's skull shape would limit it's scizor jaw capabilities anyway.
Tyrannosaurus teeth are thin near the edges and thicker at the center. They're versatile weapons, capable of both crushing and slicing, though they lean more towards crushing.

Giganotosaurus evolved slicing teeth and a large gape to carve out large chunks of flesh on the sauropods, a tactic known as flesh grazing. Extraordinary speed and agility would not have been required seeing the prey are pretty slow themselves. On the other hand, a ceratopsian like triceratops makes for a more agile opponent.

Quote:
 
But not with one bite. Or at least not if it hits an area like the chest or a leg. If it grabs the neck and has enough time to crush it, then yeah, of course it will be a 1 bite kill. But the same goes for Giga. (Minus the crushing thing. It would just tear it open.
If tyrannosaurus bites down on giganotosaurus' chest, then it will crush the rib cage, lungs, and major veins and arteries. The result would be a badly injured giganotosaurus choking on its own blood. Tyrannosaurus doesn't take 5 seconds to apply maximum bite force either. I can bite my hardest in about a third of a second. Tyrannosaurus shouldn't take much more than that. After all, if it were chasing down a hadrosaur, do you think it's going to slowly bite down and slowly sink its teeth in and slowly, no, quickly let its prey escape?

They aren't going to be biting each other on the leg. That would be nothing short of suicidal.
Edited by Anomonyous, Feb 5 2012, 12:20 PM.
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Apex
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i do think the giga is too big but as trex was "king" or so many years people are still trying to hold on that its the best
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7Alx
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apexpredator7
Feb 5 2012, 06:18 PM
i do think the giga is too big but as trex was "king" or so many years people are still trying to hold on that its the best
Giganotosaurus isn't too big. Giga holotype is size of average T.rex, while the largest could be size of average large t.rex.
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ShadowPredator
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Anomonyous
Feb 5 2012, 12:14 PM
DarkGricer
Feb 5 2012, 07:24 AM
Stop threathening me with that!

@Taurus and Drift: God! T.rex's teeth are round and made to crush. Giganotosaurus basicly has a bunch of swords in its mouth. Even IF T.rex's teath could become good slicing teeth with serations alone, it's slicing capabilities would PALE in comparising to those of Giganotosaurus. There is a reason why Carnosaurs sacrificed jaw strength to evolve blades. + T.rex's skull shape would limit it's scizor jaw capabilities anyway.
Tyrannosaurus teeth are thin near the edges and thicker at the center. They're versatile weapons, capable of both crushing and slicing, though they lean more towards crushing.

Giganotosaurus evolved slicing teeth and a large gape to carve out large chunks of flesh on the sauropods, a tactic known as flesh grazing. Extraordinary speed and agility would not have been required seeing the prey are pretty slow themselves. On the other hand, a ceratopsian like triceratops makes for a more agile opponent.

Quote:
 
But not with one bite. Or at least not if it hits an area like the chest or a leg. If it grabs the neck and has enough time to crush it, then yeah, of course it will be a 1 bite kill. But the same goes for Giga. (Minus the crushing thing. It would just tear it open.
If tyrannosaurus bites down on giganotosaurus' chest, then it will crush the rib cage, lungs, and major veins and arteries. The result would be a badly injured giganotosaurus choking on its own blood. Tyrannosaurus doesn't take 5 seconds to apply maximum bite force either. I can bite my hardest in about a third of a second. Tyrannosaurus shouldn't take much more than that. After all, if it were chasing down a hadrosaur, do you think it's going to slowly bite down and slowly sink its teeth in and slowly, no, quickly let its prey escape?

They aren't going to be biting each other on the leg. That would be nothing short of suicidal.
I'm not calling you a fanboy or anything, but ive noticed that in every "Tyrannosaurus vs ......" you always defend the Trex, against a 25 ton Hadrosaur, 3 against an Alamosaurus ect. Its weird, you need to quit criticizing Darkgricer for thinking of ways Giga can kill Rex; yes we all know Rex can kill Giga, but it's not invincible, I saw something recently that said Rex could only run 17.9 mph so if Giga ran 20 mph it'd be faster; yes Giga would have to be agile, even if the Juvinile was away from tge adults, the adults would still hear it's cries, and cOME to defend it's young, so Giga has to dodge the weapons of the Sauropod; but rex's prey was very agile too, so these two would probably be similar in terms of agility.
Edited by ShadowPredator, Feb 5 2012, 11:44 PM.
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DarkGricer
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Anomonyous
Feb 5 2012, 12:07 PM
DarkGricer
Feb 5 2012, 04:13 AM
1: Its a Charcarodontosaurid. It hunts Sauropods, but not every single day! Look at Chased by Dinosaurs. It showed Giganotosaurus chasing after and killing an Iguanodont. + if you are trying to say young Sauropods are wimpy little wimps that can't do anything to a Predator like Giganotosaurus, then you need to get your head fixed. Everytime it would hunt Sauropods, a Giganotosaurus would risk being crushes, trampled, get its neck broken by a giant tail, ect, ect. These young could be more dangerous than a Triceratops, dependign on thier age. Oh, and did I tell you that they'd have to get past the friggin ADULTS to?!

2: Perhaps it could be the scizor jaws, who make every bit disableing and potentialy lethal. Imagin if it bit a leg. Wit so many of your leg muscles disabled, that leg would be pretty useless. It could also be the size advantage, grantign it strength, or it could be superior speed and agility. Oh, wait. Now that I think of it, its all of those things combined!
1. It hunts juvenile sauropods. Juveniles are relatively slow animals (just like the adults) but they take more to bring down.

Lions don't hunt calves surrounded by other elephants, that attack them when they're alone. Giganotosaurus would have attacked stragglers.

How dangerous they prey item is does not mean as much as what sort of weaponry is needed to tackle it. Giga has slicing teeth and a large mouth gape. Tyrannosaurus has (likely) faster reflexes, seeing that the prey were quicker, greater intelligence, binocular vision, and a massive bite force.

2. Giganotosaurus biting tyrannosaurus' leg? How would it get past those jaws? Giganotosaurus has a length advantage, not a height advantage, and length is pretty useless here. Strength matters nothing in a fight where both combatants are biting.

Giganotosaurus has speed and agility? Where did you get that? It has neither.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Look at the hips and legs. Note that tyrannosaurus appears to be more cursorial; the hips have more area for muscle attachment and the tibia and femur are closer in length.

3. I saw that thread you made about me, Taurus, and Bright Nights. Well, sorry, but I argue as I see it.



1: I just said something, you know. Like that juvenile sauropods would've been on the menu, but only every now and then. It would be far to dangerous to hunt them all the time. There was more prey than just sauropods in its time, for example a species of Iguanodont (Who's name is to complicated for even me to spell.). Sauropods had a good time. But they weren't the only herbivores to have one.

Ok. While I agree with the massive biteforce intelligence and possibly binocular vision (As I have yet to see a Giganotosaurus skull from the front. I've searched for it over and over again, found nothing.). I disagree with the faster reflexes. The difference between Giga's and T.rex's main prey is that T.rex has the luxury of the fact that it's prey isn't able to hit it without putting a vunerable part of it's body near the threat (Like the head or the neck.). Giganotosaurus' main prey has a giant tail it can use to hit a predator before the predator can even come close. Giganotosaurus will have to take more risks to come close to its prey. This mens it would probably need the faster reflexes to dodge incoming tails and necks. Even a juvenile the weight of it's attacker would still have a pretty formidable reach. Also, those tails would move quicker than a cheetah can run. Some serious reflexes would be required to doge.

2: Agility, speed, taking advantage of a vunerable moment of T.rex. Sure it would be tough to get past, but every animal will sometimes need to make themselves vunerable by attacking. This counts foor both T.rex AND Giga.

Hmmmm... Looking at those skeletons, I'd say it does

Giga still has enough to be a relativly fast and agile (Especialy agile) creature. There's more to speed and agility than hips.

3: I know you're argueing, it's mainly Taurus who's mean to me, like when he called me dumb IN PUBLIC and noone even reacted. You, you're not to bad, but it mainly seems like you can't accept the fact that others have another opinion and that you must, oh so must change thier minds. But since you apoligysed (Not that it was a serious apoligy, tough.) I can forgive you... A bit.


@ 7Alx: Oh, come on! Now you're just being anti Giga! The holotype was not much smaller than Sue, meanign it was still in the large T.rex area. A large Giganotosaurus would be larger than Sue for sure.
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