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Who wins?
African Lion 134 (77%)
Eastern Gorilla Silverback 40 (23%)
Total Votes: 174
African Lion v Eastern Gorilla Silverback
Topic Started: Feb 6 2012, 05:56 PM (108,467 Views)
Taipan
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African Lion - Panthera leo
The lion (Panthera leo) is one of the four big cats in the genus Panthera, and a member of the family Felidae. With some males exceeding 250 kg (550 lb) in weight, it is the second-largest living cat after the tiger. Wild lions currently exist in Sub-Saharan Africa and in Asia with an endangered remnant population in Gir Forest National Park in India, having disappeared from North Africa and Southwest Asia in historic times. Until the late Pleistocene, about 10,000 years ago, the lion was the most widespread large land mammal after humans. They were found in most of Africa, across Eurasia from western Europe to India, and in the Americas from the Yukon to Peru. The lion is a vulnerable species, having seen a possibly irreversible population decline of thirty to fifty percent over the past two decades in its African range. The African lion is a very large cat, with males weighing between 330 and 550 pounds and females weighing between 260 and 400 pounds. It is 8 to 10 feet long, not including the tail. Its most famous feature is its mane, which only male lions have. The mane is a yellow color when the lion is young and darkens with age. Eventually, the mane will be dark brown. The body of the African lion is well suited for hunting. It is very muscular, with back legs designed for pouncing and front legs made for grabbing and knocking down prey. It also has very strong jaws that enable it to eat the large prey that it hunts.

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Eastern Gorilla - Gorilla beringei
The eastern gorilla (Gorilla beringei) is a species of the genus Gorilla and the largest living primate. At present, the species is subdivided into two subspecies. The eastern lowland gorilla (G. b. graueri) is the most populous, at about 5,000 individuals. The mountain gorilla (G. b. beringei) has only about 700 individuals. The eastern gorilla is a large hominid with a large head, broad chest, and long arms. It has a flat nose with large nostrils. The face, hands, feet and breast are bald. The fur is mainly black, but adult males have a silvery "saddle" on their back. When the gorilla gets older, the entire fur becomes grayish, much like the gray hair of elderly people. This is why the older males are sometimes called Silverbacks. The eastern lowland gorilla has a shorter, thicker, deep black fur, while the mountain gorilla has a more bluish color. The mountain gorilla is slightly smaller and lighter than the eastern lowland gorilla, but still slightly larger than the western lowland gorilla. Males are much larger than females. A full-grown adult male Eastern gorilla weighs an average of 195 kg (430 lb) and stands 1.7 m (5.6 ft) upright and a female typically weighs 100 kg (220 lb) and stands 1.4 m (4.6 ft). The tallest silverback recorded was a 1.94-metre (6.4 ft) individual shot in Alimbongo, northern Kivu in May 1938. The heaviest gorilla recorded was a 1.83-metre (6.0 ft) silverback shot in Ambam, Cameroon which weighed about 266 kilograms (590 lb), although the latter area is within the range of the western gorilla, far outside that of the eastern gorilla.

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liamshannon
Feb 6 2012, 07:15 AM
Male Lion vs Silverback Gorilla
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Rodentsofunusualsize
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cogcaptainduck
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I'm tempted to call this a borderline mismatch. Eastern Silverbacks are incredibly formidable, but an African Lion male may just be to much. The Gorilla has an intelligence advantage and his hands, as well as being able to more effectively use his considerable strength. However the Lion has the weaponry and the combat experience, as well as being more stable in a quadrupedal position.
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liamshannon
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I can't see how the Gorilla can defend itself let alone kill the lion, are there no accounts of the past of these two animals meeting ever?
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1futuremarine1
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liamshannon
Feb 7 2012, 01:50 AM
I can't see how the Gorilla can defend itself let alone kill the lion, are there no accounts of the past of these two animals meeting ever?
Not in recent times, no.
Mountain gorillas are now only found in the Bwindi imprenetrable forest, and in Virungas volcanic mountains.
Eastern lowland gorillas are only found in the forests of eastern Democratic republic of the Congo.
Both areas are far from any living lion species.
And not only that, but most of mountain gorillas and eastern lowland gorillas live protected lives in national parks, which would likely move any major predators out of the park to protect this very valuable and endangered species.

However, I am sure they have met each other in previos times before both species were devastated by man.
Course I am unsure there are any surving records of them encountering each other, as these are 2 of the most famous species on the planet, and it would these records would have likely been found.
I have seen records posted on carnivora that date back into the 1800s that came from a small newpaper artical from the middle of nowhere lol, but I have yet to see anyone post records of lions and gorillas meeting during the 1800s and 1900s.
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liamshannon
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1futuremarine1
Feb 7 2012, 02:36 AM
liamshannon
Feb 7 2012, 01:50 AM
I can't see how the Gorilla can defend itself let alone kill the lion, are there no accounts of the past of these two animals meeting ever?
Not in recent times, no.
Mountain gorillas are now only found in the Bwindi imprenetrable forest, and in Virungas volcanic mountains.
Eastern lowland gorillas are only found in the forests of eastern Democratic republic of the Congo.
Both areas are far from any living lion species.
And not only that, but most of mountain gorillas and eastern lowland gorillas live protected lives in national parks, which would likely move any major predators out of the park to protect this very valuable and endangered species.

However, I am sure they have met each other in previos times before both species were devastated by man.
Course I am unsure there are any surving records of them encountering each other, as these are 2 of the most famous species on the planet, and it would these records would have likely been found.
I have seen records posted on carnivora that date back into the 1800s that came from a small newpaper artical from the middle of nowhere lol, but I have yet to see anyone post records of lions and gorillas meeting during the 1800s and 1900s.
Surely if the two species met in the past the Gorilla would simply be seen as a medium sized prey item by the lion, I mean how can the Gorilla be seen as dangerous when lions tackle buffalos etc.
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Rodentsofunusualsize
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cogcaptainduck
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Because the Gorilla has the ability to fight in a bipedal stance and has Primate hands. Lions also tackle most of their prey from ambush, this is face to face.
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Bright Nights
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The male lion is too powerful for a gorilla. It's a mismatch in my opinion.

A fight between a Lioness and Silverback Gorilla is a better match.
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1futuremarine1
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Afircan lion 7.5/10
I would support a Eastern lowland gorilla over a cougar, leopard, and perhaps even the powerhous that is the Jaguar. But not over a lion or a tiger.
I do believe that a Eastern lowland gorilla holds a strength advantage in the back, chest, and arm areas, and male gorillas have extremely powerful bites and large canines. But what a lion may not hold in strength (relatively speaking they are still powerful animals), it does hold in knowledge, skill, and ability in combat and the hunt.
A gorilla also don't know how to effectively use their strength a powerful bites, while a lion does.
I believe a more leveld match would be a african lioness, but even then I would support the lioness.

If, for instance, a gorilla was experienced in combat and felines, and knew how to effectively use it's strength and bite, I believe that would level the playing field greatly (perhaps even 50/50), but this ofcourse will likely never happen, and it would not be fair to do so anyway.
So I must go with a lion.
7.5/10
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coherentsheaf
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@Nothing00:

While I appreciate that you try to give sources, I find their quality lacking. For example your Gorilla bite force is larger than that of a 150kg Alligator (1204 pound) at a posteriror position of the jaw. I think this very improbable as Alligators have to crush turtles and drag large mammals into water using their jaw and have very large heads compared to their size.

Another example of a bad source would be Animal planet most extreme. In their list they include ants, a clear sign that the people who made this films have no idea of biomechanics.

Regarding the machup: Is there any evidence I have missed about these anials? Else this seems like a clear missatch in favor of the lion....
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Hello coherrentsheaf. Nice to meet you.

1. I would say this is most certainly not a mismatch in favor of the lion. The sources I gave suggest the opposite.
http://en.goldenmap.com/Eastern%20lowland%20gorilla According to the late John Aspinall, a 550lb male Eastern Lowland Gorilla in his prime has the combined strength of 7–8 heavyweight Olympic weightlifters. I cannot see the lion matching this raw power.

2. http://saveagorilla.org/60-Questions.html Gorillas can be fiercely protective if their families are in danger. Because they are sociable animals, gorillas try to protect one another from potential danger. Adult gorillas commonly risk their lives to defend their young from poachers and other dangers, and often die in the process.
http://saveagorilla.org/30-Gorillas.html Interactions between social units by silverbacks accounts for over 60 percent of all wounds on gorillas. Gorillas can recover amazingly well.

3. the Most extreme ranked the ant 3rd. It's stated if a human were the size of a leaf-cutter ant, he could lift a 3000 KG truck and carry it 13 KM. I understand you may think the show is not 100% reliable but I'm sure they didn't pull those figures out of thin air. There has to be a method behind the figures they came up with. I don't know biomechanics so I'm nobody to disagree.
4. ttp://www.seaworld.org/animal-info/info-books/gorilla/physical-characteristics.htm Gorillas have larger muscles in their arms than in their legs. This is due to the fact that they use their arm strength for bending and gathering foliage and for defense. An adult gorilla's upper body strength is six times more powerful than that of an adult human - enabling them to lift, break, and squeeze heavy objects. The head of a gorilla is massive, with a bulging forehead overhanging the eyes and a bony sagittal crest on top. The sagittal crest (especially noticeable in males) supports the large temporal muscles needed to grind coarse vegetation. The large bulging forehead functions primarily to protect the eyes.

5. Many people say Lion/Tiger will annihilate gorillas when there exist multiple cases of men (barehanded) killing big cats.
http://bigcatrescue.blogspot.com/2009/09/man-captures-tiger-with-bare-hands.html

7. http://www.malamala.com/MM7/LEOP_hlarulini.htm A baboon seriously bit and possibly killed a leopard. Can you imagine what a 450 LB gorilla can do with the same mentality?

8. http://answers.yourdictionary.com/animal-life/where-do-gorillas-sleep.html Male gorillas sleep on the ground. If leopards predated on gorillas, why would they do this?

9. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtsb58tKEhM Gorilla breaks thick glass in a zoo.

I personally feel that a gorilla's durability, strength, dexterity, brains, and ferocity in defending its troop would make it a formidable challenge for a lion. The lion doesn't have any experience in handling this kind of foe. Hunting a zebra, antelope, wildebeest isn't the same as an ape. The great ape is more flexible and dextrous than these animals. When a lion downs a zebra, it nullifies some danger of hooves. A gorilla can still grab, strike, and pull at the lion from every direction. Even if the lion managed to harm or kill the ape, he will come out with tons of mashed bones and mangled facial areas (read more on chimp attacks).
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Oops. I messed up one of the links. Here it is again.
http://www.seaworld.org/animal-info/info-books/gorilla/physical-characteristics.htm
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1futuremarine1
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While I do support a Lion over a gorilla 7/10. I wouldn't call it a complete missmatch. I do believe that a gorilla has the capability of killing a lion at parity, but their lifestyles, while somewhat protective, are not as combat intensive as a Males lions lifestyle is. That isn't to say there isn't competition, Males Silverbacks frequently fight over territory and females and to protect their children.
However a lion has to battle other males, other predators, the prey it ambushes, and everything in between everyday.

That said, I believe a lot of people will find this video of a Silverback gorilla next to a human being interesting and I believe it really highlights the sheer size of a Silverback. (Do note it is about 75 lbs larger than a average Eastern Lowland Gorilla in th wild)
99% of people know that Gorillas are very large animals, but this comparison really shows the big picture.
Especially their ENORMOUS skulls and massive shoulders and broad chest.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LILYniR-CYM&feature=related

And of-course, the video itself is cool.
Edited by 1futuremarine1, Feb 15 2012, 03:47 PM.
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Very nice video, futuremarine, That's gorilla's a beast. His hands are the size of that woman's head. You have to say that buildwise, the lion doesn't even approach a gorilla in thickness and girth.
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz8NQdgj-iY This gorilla is also pretty enormous. This is a wild gorilla too and he shows absolutely no fear of those people. The reason the silverback gorilla behaves in such a docile, relaxed demeanor is because he has no natural enemies.

2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oeKbwSVmCI If a wildebeest can deter a lion, I don't see why an intimidating silverback couldn't. Carnivores run from herbivores all the time.

In fact so many "prey" animals can destroy the predator as long as the former stands its ground. A single moose can fend off an entire wolf pack for instance.
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Gato Gordo
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Nothing00, I also love gorillas but I disagree with your assessments and of your handling of your sources.

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5. Many people say Lion/Tiger will annihilate gorillas when there exist multiple cases of men (barehanded) killing big cats.
http://bigcatrescue.blogspot.com/2009/09/man-captures-tiger-with-bare-hands.html


You must be joking if you believe such wild eyed conclusion ("multiple cases") from the source that you quote: it doesn't say that the man killed the young tiger, just that it handled it. And this incident is a total fluke, normally in 99.9999% of cases a 2 year old tiger would need to be darted to be handled.

You have no idea how easy it is for a tiger/lion to kill humans, even a young tiger/lion can easily kill a very strong man.

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7. http://www.malamala.com/MM7/LEOP_hlarulini.htm A baboon seriously bit and possibly killed a leopard. Can you imagine what a 450 LB gorilla can do with the same mentality?


There is no evidence that the baboon inflicted these wounds on that leopard, and baboons always face leopards in groups of males.

By the way: the much smaller leopards are already risky for gorillas. Notice that leopard predation on adult silverbacks is a fact. Yes, it is most likely by ambush, yet the leopard is much smaller than the gorilla (60 kg to 180 kg). The fact that this predation happens means that gorillas are vulnerable if attacked by a big cat. A leopard needs the ambush to kill the gorilla and (likely) would loos a frontal fight, but a lion wouldn't need an ambush to kill the gorilla.

Also, please look at the profile section for the gorillas. I posted evidence showing that the skin and hair of gorillas is very similar to human skin and hair. This means that gorillas are as vulnerable to clawing as we are.
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1. I've never seen evidence of leopards predating on gorillas. If it does happen, it would be extremely rare and likely on a baby, female, or (maybe) an ailing silverback. Even then, I still expect the ape to have a fighting chance. A sick weightlifter is still a weight lifter.

2. It depends what kind of human you're talking about when you say lions/tigers can easily kill us. An average Moe western city dweller, then by all means yes. Someone like Angus Macaskill- is an entirely different ball game.

3. Even if gorillas had thin skin- it won't come into play as much as you believe. They have powerful bones, massive skulls, and thick fur that will provide handy protection from predatory weapons. And for a cat to throat bite the ape, he has to get within reach of the 7 foot long arms (and risk being grappled and smashed into submission). And the ape is more than mobile enough for a leopard to simply run circles around it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KujmrcF0ZxU Gorillas can move frighteningly fast through thick bush.

4. A gorilla will trash a leopard. How would you like to fight an opponent not only bigger and stronger- but also more dextrous and smarter than you are? Not to mention, the ape has many potentially debilitating tactics of his own.
-Eye gouging
-Destroying facial areas.
-Strangling
-Grabbing and pulling/breaking a cat's limbs
- stronger bite (the gorilla has 1300 LBs of bite force in a source I posted)
- throw it around like a ragdoll (John Aspinall estimated a silverback to have the power of 7-8 olympic weightlifters) with 1 arm and this is no exaggeration.
- Break the leopard's back, skull, neck, jaws with his insanely strong arms.
Honestly, leopard vs gorilla shouldn't be considered. How can a cat be so strong he outmuscles an animal 2-3 times his size is what I'd like to know. And the gorilla is not going to sit there and let a cat chew and claw at him. He'll be grabbing, flailing his arms, and biting frantically.

5. A lot of people are hating on apes- blasting them as mentally weak incompetents. They dismiss the technical aspects of the fight too quickly. Hands and brains let the ape manipulate the environment and strike weaknesses in ways other animals can't do. Besides man, what animal possesses a primate's combination of power and dexterity? none.
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