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| Steppe Rhinoceros v Tyrannosaurus rex | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 10 2012, 06:44 PM (33,454 Views) | |
| Taipan | Feb 10 2012, 06:44 PM Post #1 |
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Steppe Rhinoceros - Elasmotherium caucasicum Elasmotherium ("Thin Plate Beast") is an extinct genus of giant rhinoceros endemic to Eurasia during the Late Pliocene through the Pleistocene, documented from 2.6 mya to as late as 50,000 years ago, possibly later, in the Late Pleistocene, an approximate span of slightly less than 2.6 million years. Three species are recognised. The best known, E. sibiricum was the size of a mammoth and is thought to have borne a large, thick horn on its forehead which was used for defense, attracting mates, driving away competitors, sweeping snow from the grass in winter and digging for water and plant roots. Like all rhinoceroses, elasmotheres were herbivorous. Unlike any others, its high-crowned molars were ever-growing. Its legs were longer than those of other rhinos and were designed for galloping, giving it a horse-like gait. The Russian paleontologists of the 19th century who discovered and named the initial fossils were influenced by ancient legends of a huge unicorn roaming the steppes of Siberia. To date no evidence either contradicts or confirms the possibility that Elasmotherium survived into legendary times. The most reconstructed species is perhaps E. sibiricum by generations of scientists working at the Paleontological Museum in Moscow and elsewhere in Russia. The majority of the fossils fall or have fallen within their national jurisdiction. The dimensions and morphology of the various reconstructions vary considerably. They are for the most part estimating the gross details from the minutiae. However, they all agree on the general order of magnitude, that sibiricum was comparable to a Mammoth and was rather larger than the contemporary Woolly Rhinoceros. E. sibiricum had a measured shoulder height of approximately 2 metres (6.6 ft). To it, however, must be added the height of a massive hump anchored on the fin-like transverse processes extending from the top of the cervical vertebrae, a maximum of 53 centimetres (1.74 ft). The total height then was in excess of 253 centimetres (8.30 ft). The measured length of sibiricum (from a nearly complete skeleton found at Gaevskaya) is 4.5 metres (15 ft). Extrapolation from the greater size of caucasicum molars obtains a length of 5 metres (16 ft)—5.2 metres (17 ft) for caucasicum. According to Legendre's formula, E. sibiricum had a mass of over 4,000 kilograms (3.9 long tons; 4.4 short tons); E. caucasicum, 5,000 kilograms (4.9 long tons; 5.5 short tons). These weights place Elasmotherium in the "really huge" category of all Rhinocerotidae and therefore the animal was "strongly brachyopodial;" that is, they required feet of large contact area to prevent sinking into the soil. The feet were unguligrade, the front larger than the rear: purely tridactyl on Digits II-IV in the rear, but with an extra vestigial digit, I, in the front. ![]() Tyrannosaurus rex Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago. It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes. ![]() _____________________________________________________________
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| buteo | May 13 2016, 01:45 AM Post #196 |
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Herbivore
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we dont know how elasmotheriums use their horns but i say they can charge this is a possibility, modern rhinos maybe dont charge but it doesnt mean they cant charge and even if horn is broken when rhino crashed t-rex it doesnt matter t-rex wouldnt stand against that , this is like medieval tournaments cavalries ' lances can be broken but do a lot damage because the horse is really fast and this impact causes a superb damage now think about a 5 tons muscular animal running and crashing , this momentum would be far far bigger |
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| Spartan | May 13 2016, 03:54 AM Post #197 |
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Kleptoparasite
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...and suicidal. Abandon that idea, that's not how rhinos fight such large animals. Rowdy teenage elephants apparently have little trouble killing adult black and white rhinos. T. rex has a good size advantage, a very effective weapon and experience with similar, but larger, better armed and armored animals. |
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| blaze | May 13 2016, 03:58 AM Post #198 |
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Carnivore
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edit: Ninja'ed by Spartan haha
Edited by blaze, May 13 2016, 03:59 AM.
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| buteo | May 13 2016, 05:54 AM Post #199 |
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Herbivore
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i dont think - or probably i dont know enough- t-rex did hunt larger,well armed and more dangereous animals than elasmotherium , triceratops may be larger but i think elasmotherium is more deadly and why it would be suicide , i mention here about a possibility, this animal can charge and crash t-rex, why cant it charge ? |
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| Spartan | May 13 2016, 06:40 AM Post #200 |
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Kleptoparasite
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Triceratops has two deadly horns which are in a better position to gore and can't get dispatched as easily. Add to this a thick, protective frill and greater size and you have something that poses a much bigger threat to T. rex than a 4t rhino ever could. Animals that charge at high speed at similar sized animals usually have very different skull anatomy from rhinos, look at rams or Pachycephalosauria which are adapted to do such things. What makes you believe the rhino wouldn't sustain serious injuries itself if it runs at 40kmh into a 7000kg animal? Aside from the fact that such an attack would probably be easy to dodge. |
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| buteo | May 13 2016, 06:56 AM Post #201 |
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Herbivore
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yes but ramming animals dont have a very large pointy horns, i am not talking about ramming here - bumping two hard objects each other- i am talking here stabbing with a great momentum, and triceratops and elasmotherium are two unlike animals if we compare behavior, triceratops had behavior like musk ox , stay and make a circle but this is actually an advantage for t-rex because it can attack them efficiently because it has a size and height advantage but rhinos dont have such behaviors and i still think elasmotherium can stab its horn without much trouble because horn can go through into t-rex and yes as i said before t-rex can avoid these charges but its agility was not much good and if it cant manage to avoid and get stabbed it would be dead , that scenario is about what two animals can do and this is a fiction like other fights especially about extinct animals |
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| Ausar | May 13 2016, 07:16 AM Post #202 |
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Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
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Which effectively sounds like ramming, just with a sharp object this time around. That hasn't been proven for Triceratops... As I said before, it doesn't matter how agile the tyrannosaur was in absolute terms, it just needs to be more so than the rhinoceros, which I believe is likely at least at similar-sizes. Edited by Ausar, May 13 2016, 07:18 AM.
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| buteo | May 13 2016, 07:20 AM Post #203 |
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Herbivore
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not much thing is proven about extinct animals exactly i mean the facts we know about them can change with new findings but i ask you something ,anyone can answer, what if elasmotherium can manage to stab the t-rex ? |
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| Ausar | May 13 2016, 07:24 AM Post #204 |
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Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
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Well, if the horn it possessed was sharp and long enough, then it certainly has the potential to deliver fatal damage. That's obvious. |
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| Spartan | May 13 2016, 07:28 AM Post #205 |
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Kleptoparasite
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T. rex was rather similar in size to Triceratops.
Then that's probably not a good thing for T. rex.
How do you know how rhinos defend themselves against larger predators? The only remotely similar situation are elephants who attack rhinos and in these cases the rhinos never do such a thing as you suggest. |
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| buteo | May 13 2016, 07:40 AM Post #206 |
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Herbivore
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but modern day rhinos dont have a horn like elasmotherium and probably more weaker than elasmotherium if we compare them size by size and white and black rhinos choose not to attack elephants i watched so many videos about that and they just dont prefer to attack and they mostly decide to leave but sometimes elephants kill them but we are talking about possibilities like every other extinct animal fights actually like most of fictional fight in this forum, we must consider all possibilities |
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| Ausar | May 13 2016, 11:31 AM Post #207 |
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Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
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What makes Elasmotherium's horn so special compared to those of modern rhinoceri? You may cite horn length, but that may well have been disadvantageous (too long of a horn may have been too fragile, as explained earlier). And of course, as you probably wouldn't be surprised to hear, we don't exactly know just how long the horn was (actually, there's a possibility that it may not have even had one at all! Granted I would consider it more parsimonious that it had one, but you get the point.). Based on what? Edited by Ausar, May 13 2016, 11:36 AM.
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| Gyirin | May 13 2016, 05:41 PM Post #208 |
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Omnivore
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I think T.rex's vital organs are too high in the air for steppe rhinoceros to gore. |
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| buteo | May 13 2016, 07:03 PM Post #209 |
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Herbivore
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if so elasmotherium wouldnt have a chance probably but its horn seems enough to reach and Ausar yes you are right long means more fragile but this is compressed ,compact and solid ( actually i dont know the right word for that sorry ) keratin and can be more sturdy than we expect but probably it will break when reach to t-rex thick skin but as i said before this would be like a cavalry lance effect in a medieval tournament, and i was just guessing about their strenght but i think elasmotherium was more robust and muscular at least it seems so maybe i am wrong but dont its muscle and bone structure seem more solid than modern rhinoceros ?and as you said if they dont have a horn then this fight would be nearly a mismatch i found a black rhinoceros charging a truck i dont know about damage though http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3461753/Charge-Rhino-smashes-safari-vehicle-world-s-worst-case-road-rage.html Edited by buteo, May 13 2016, 07:11 PM.
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| Ausar | May 13 2016, 08:56 PM Post #210 |
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Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
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^I can't really tell based on pictures, so the question is if it essentially collided with the truck at its maximum speed or slowed down before it made contact.
Edited by Ausar, May 13 2016, 08:57 PM.
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![]](http://b2.ifrm.com/28122/87/0/p701956/pipright.png)
) keratin and can be more sturdy than we expect but probably it will break when reach to t-rex thick skin but as i said before this would be like a cavalry lance effect in a medieval tournament, and i was just guessing about their strenght but i think elasmotherium was more robust and muscular at least it seems so maybe i am wrong but dont its muscle and bone structure seem more solid than modern rhinoceros ?
9:54 AM Jul 11