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Steppe Rhinoceros v Tyrannosaurus rex
Topic Started: Feb 10 2012, 06:44 PM (33,453 Views)
Taipan
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Steppe Rhinoceros - Elasmotherium caucasicum
Elasmotherium ("Thin Plate Beast") is an extinct genus of giant rhinoceros endemic to Eurasia during the Late Pliocene through the Pleistocene, documented from 2.6 mya to as late as 50,000 years ago, possibly later, in the Late Pleistocene, an approximate span of slightly less than 2.6 million years. Three species are recognised. The best known, E. sibiricum was the size of a mammoth and is thought to have borne a large, thick horn on its forehead which was used for defense, attracting mates, driving away competitors, sweeping snow from the grass in winter and digging for water and plant roots. Like all rhinoceroses, elasmotheres were herbivorous. Unlike any others, its high-crowned molars were ever-growing. Its legs were longer than those of other rhinos and were designed for galloping, giving it a horse-like gait. The Russian paleontologists of the 19th century who discovered and named the initial fossils were influenced by ancient legends of a huge unicorn roaming the steppes of Siberia. To date no evidence either contradicts or confirms the possibility that Elasmotherium survived into legendary times. The most reconstructed species is perhaps E. sibiricum by generations of scientists working at the Paleontological Museum in Moscow and elsewhere in Russia. The majority of the fossils fall or have fallen within their national jurisdiction. The dimensions and morphology of the various reconstructions vary considerably. They are for the most part estimating the gross details from the minutiae. However, they all agree on the general order of magnitude, that sibiricum was comparable to a Mammoth and was rather larger than the contemporary Woolly Rhinoceros. E. sibiricum had a measured shoulder height of approximately 2 metres (6.6 ft). To it, however, must be added the height of a massive hump anchored on the fin-like transverse processes extending from the top of the cervical vertebrae, a maximum of 53 centimetres (1.74 ft). The total height then was in excess of 253 centimetres (8.30 ft). The measured length of sibiricum (from a nearly complete skeleton found at Gaevskaya) is 4.5 metres (15 ft). Extrapolation from the greater size of caucasicum molars obtains a length of 5 metres (16 ft)—5.2 metres (17 ft) for caucasicum. According to Legendre's formula, E. sibiricum had a mass of over 4,000 kilograms (3.9 long tons; 4.4 short tons); E. caucasicum, 5,000 kilograms (4.9 long tons; 5.5 short tons). These weights place Elasmotherium in the "really huge" category of all Rhinocerotidae and therefore the animal was "strongly brachyopodial;" that is, they required feet of large contact area to prevent sinking into the soil. The feet were unguligrade, the front larger than the rear: purely tridactyl on Digits II-IV in the rear, but with an extra vestigial digit, I, in the front.

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Tyrannosaurus rex
Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago. It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes.

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Prehistoric Cat
Feb 10 2012, 01:07 AM
Tyrannosaurus Rex v Elasmotherium Caucasicum
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Spartan
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It basically stopped and then slid into the side of the truck. The car is of course hollow for the most part, but still impressive.
Edited by Spartan, May 14 2016, 12:15 AM.
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blaze
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Exactly, it wasn't accelerating at all in the last 4m or so (not that it was going very fast to begin with), it tried to stop and that caused it to slide into the truck, the impact turned its head to the side, parallel to the chassis and the truck seems unscathed, the door doesn't even appear to have bent.

But yes, Awesome video nonetheless.
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Nergigante
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For now I think the t rex wins 6/10 or 6.5/10 because of large weight advantage, but still I think the t rex would not bite off the horn, for one it would not try this in every scenario possible and two it would need to turn its head sideways to bite the horn which probably would be a bad idea as the rhino would probably pull down the t rex down while running thanks to the lower center of gravity, also rhinos do not charge in to a straight line every time but when they do they do not stop until they reach a safe distance unless its another rhino which they need to outrun and would probably would also behave like this with the t rex, but when turning around they need to use a large space to do a turning radious like you see cars turning around, they do use momentum but this most likely used if its in a long distance, and while the t rex is more agile the steppe rhino counters the speed of the t rex with shorter and leaner legs which are better for maneuverability and would quite difficult to "sidestep" the steppe rhino, unless a human has a easy time sidestepping a wild boar which is chasing him or another animal that has a easy time avoiding a rhino charge in a short distance, in normal behavior of rhinos chase their opponent and stab them repeatedly like when searching a soft spot of the other rhinos like under the bellies, neck and armpits, and they do chase cars and lions so even thought they have bad eyesight they still are capable of seeing lions which makes me think that t rex that is twice the height is not hard to see and would probably be easier to chase, but thanks to the size advantage of the t rex I could see it pinning down the hind legs of the steppe rhino if it chased from the behind as the steppe rhino would have a difficult time turning around unlike a horse because it has powerful built which be harder to also look behind, and mauling the torso repeatedly until it dies from blood loss or reaches the organs with its massive bite force, and t rex would also have a advantage of the lower center gravity of the steppe rhino, it can now have easier time kicking which would be bad for the lower sideways of the torso of the steppe rhino and bad for the head of the steppe rhino's head if the t rex manages to gain a position which would be quite difficult but not Impossible, the steppe rhino would be deadly foe for the t rex but still I think the t rex would win thanks to a bigger weight advantage and deadly legs (its weird to me say but it's true) and massive jaws, if this was possible at a similiar weight mass then I would vote for steppe rhino, which could be possible if used the max weights of the steppe rhino and used average or lower estimate of the t rex.

Sorry for my bad grammar.
Edited by Nergigante, Aug 1 2016, 08:35 AM.
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Ausar
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Quote:
 
the steppe rhino counters the speed of the t rex with shorter and leaner legs which are better for maneuverability
What do you mean by that? That the rhinoceros has a way of countering Tyrannosaurus' speed advantage or that this characteristic cancels out the adaptations for speed Tyrannosaurus has over the rhinoceros?
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LeonardosHeir
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6 Tons of bite force... Don't see how the Rhino can last more than one bit.
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Nergigante
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"What do you mean by that? That the rhinoceros has a way of countering Tyrannosaurus' speed advantage or that this characteristic cancels out the adaptations for speed Tyrannosaurus has over the rhinoceros? "

I meant to say that the t rex cannot attack sideways of steppe rhino, because the steppe would point out its horn in front of the t rex if its tries to go around it and it would have no problem turning to the t rex's direction and would also have no trouble chasing the t rex in different directions, but I have a question for blaze though, is the comparison he made even correct? I am not a genius but I can see problems with the comparison he made:

this to me does not seem correct to me, the man is taller than the leg, and the neck is too short, its hump is not even as big as the skeleton suggests and the legs are too skinny, the torso is shorter than I thought, its as long as a white rhinos.
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Its It's literally the same rhino but with longer legs and horn, not enlarged torso? No round head with thick a long thick neck? No hump in the back? The steppe rhino has these traits at least the last time I saw it.
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Look at the hindlegs! If you make it erect the legs are taller human being, the pelvis is very wide, I imagine how much storage of blubber it could have fitted with the thick layer of skin, the Spinous process is almost as high of a gaur at parity, the legs were thin but not as thin as he showed and the head is rounder, more massive lower jaw making the lower part of the neck very muscular.
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check another similar skeleton of the steppe rhinoceros, the spinous process is easier to see

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White rhino, much smaller pelvis but thicker rib cage, maybe the steppe rhino did not have skin as thick as white rhino but it did have blubber like grizzly bears and skin folds like its modern relative the sumatran rhino, but this is a theory so I could be wrong,.
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To me the lower jaw is very big so the neck must had been long and thick, similiar on how deaodon has the big bulky neck to support the head, the jaws must had large muscle attachment connecting the neck, it must have been very thick that the steppe rhino would seem to have no neck,.


If you make the hind leg of a elemostheriium caucasicum erect then you can see its taller than a human being (sorry if no one notices, is just if you put the chair from the backround to the front and put a average height then the man would be twice the height of the chair) and for last thing I can think off is that the thin horn theory is bullfaeces, it would need to be able to withstand hits from another males for mating rights and territory, and cave painting have drawed with a thick long horn:

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But that is all I wanted to say, unless blaze used another subspecies.
Edited by Nergigante, Aug 1 2016, 06:13 PM.
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The All-seeing Night
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Grizzly bears (and really all bears) don't have blubber.
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Nergigante
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How big the hump would like if the head looked downwards like other rhinos?
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Grimace
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I'm still waiting for someone to explain why a rhino would have any decent chance of winning when we know Tyrannosaurus hunted triceratops.
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Nergigante
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"Grizzly bears (and really all bears) don't have blubber. "

Black, grizzly and polar bears do have body fat/blubber
"I'm still waiting for someone to explain why a rhino would have any decent chance of winning when we know Tyrannosaurus hunted triceratops."

Because IMO, the horn would be harder to grip if the rhino continuously moved because the horns looks upwards which requires the jaws to move sideways which limits the time of the t rex gripping the horn, instead of a straightfoward horn triceratops which just requires to lean down and bite, and if the t rex gripped the horn of the steppe rhino than the lower center of gravity would have pulled down the t rex if the steppe rhino was gripped by the horn and not be pinned down by a leg similiar the large plated skull of the triceratops, which could quite difficult as the center of the head has a large horn and if it tried to pin down the torso then the steppe rhino would still be capable of running foward as the leg does not outweight the torso, the steppe rhino was faster and more maneuverable than a triceratops IMO because of the shorter thinner legs and has easir time stabbing the neck,chest and belly area.

The t rex most likely wins IMO but I do see decent chance of the steppe rhinoceros.
Also sorry for my bad grammar.
Edited by Nergigante, Aug 1 2016, 06:43 PM.
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Mammuthus
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I think it would be very hard for the Trex to avoid Elasmotherium's horn
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Attached File tyrannosaurus_rex_vs_elasmotherium_by_sameerprehistorica_d5p0ae. (129.29 KB)
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Nergigante
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Cool art by sameerprehistorica, the steppe rhino ( most likely elasmotherium caucasium) it does have a decent chance of stabbing the head,neck, chest, belly or even a leg which could cripple.
Edited by Nergigante, Aug 1 2016, 07:25 PM.
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The All-seeing Night
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Quote:
 
Black, grizzly and polar bears do have body fat/blubber
Body fat and blubber are not the same thing.
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Nergigante
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"Body fat and blubber are not the same thing."

Really? Explain.
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The All-seeing Night
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Blubber is a specialized form of fat which is rich in proteins. The fat of bears is not specialized and doesn't help them retain body shape and heat like in whales and seals.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sWc_82cMSiU
Edited by The All-seeing Night, Jan 25 2018, 10:30 AM.
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