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| Steppe Rhinoceros v Tyrannosaurus rex | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 10 2012, 06:44 PM (33,450 Views) | |
| Taipan | Feb 10 2012, 06:44 PM Post #1 |
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Steppe Rhinoceros - Elasmotherium caucasicum Elasmotherium ("Thin Plate Beast") is an extinct genus of giant rhinoceros endemic to Eurasia during the Late Pliocene through the Pleistocene, documented from 2.6 mya to as late as 50,000 years ago, possibly later, in the Late Pleistocene, an approximate span of slightly less than 2.6 million years. Three species are recognised. The best known, E. sibiricum was the size of a mammoth and is thought to have borne a large, thick horn on its forehead which was used for defense, attracting mates, driving away competitors, sweeping snow from the grass in winter and digging for water and plant roots. Like all rhinoceroses, elasmotheres were herbivorous. Unlike any others, its high-crowned molars were ever-growing. Its legs were longer than those of other rhinos and were designed for galloping, giving it a horse-like gait. The Russian paleontologists of the 19th century who discovered and named the initial fossils were influenced by ancient legends of a huge unicorn roaming the steppes of Siberia. To date no evidence either contradicts or confirms the possibility that Elasmotherium survived into legendary times. The most reconstructed species is perhaps E. sibiricum by generations of scientists working at the Paleontological Museum in Moscow and elsewhere in Russia. The majority of the fossils fall or have fallen within their national jurisdiction. The dimensions and morphology of the various reconstructions vary considerably. They are for the most part estimating the gross details from the minutiae. However, they all agree on the general order of magnitude, that sibiricum was comparable to a Mammoth and was rather larger than the contemporary Woolly Rhinoceros. E. sibiricum had a measured shoulder height of approximately 2 metres (6.6 ft). To it, however, must be added the height of a massive hump anchored on the fin-like transverse processes extending from the top of the cervical vertebrae, a maximum of 53 centimetres (1.74 ft). The total height then was in excess of 253 centimetres (8.30 ft). The measured length of sibiricum (from a nearly complete skeleton found at Gaevskaya) is 4.5 metres (15 ft). Extrapolation from the greater size of caucasicum molars obtains a length of 5 metres (16 ft)—5.2 metres (17 ft) for caucasicum. According to Legendre's formula, E. sibiricum had a mass of over 4,000 kilograms (3.9 long tons; 4.4 short tons); E. caucasicum, 5,000 kilograms (4.9 long tons; 5.5 short tons). These weights place Elasmotherium in the "really huge" category of all Rhinocerotidae and therefore the animal was "strongly brachyopodial;" that is, they required feet of large contact area to prevent sinking into the soil. The feet were unguligrade, the front larger than the rear: purely tridactyl on Digits II-IV in the rear, but with an extra vestigial digit, I, in the front. ![]() Tyrannosaurus rex Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago. It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes. ![]() _____________________________________________________________
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| Ausar | Jan 17 2017, 02:12 AM Post #241 |
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Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
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He said "almost" no advantage. I really don't see anything novel that Elasmotherium brings to the table against Tyrannosaurus in comparison to the horned dinosaurs the latter preyed upon. |
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| Nergigante | Jan 17 2017, 03:05 AM Post #242 |
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Carnivore
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How many species that the t-rex preyed on had horns? |
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| Thergi | Jan 17 2017, 05:47 AM Post #243 |
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Autotrophic Organism
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I think everything to be said about this fight has already been said. Of course this is Carnivora so I'm sure we'll have to restate the same things for eternity.
Edited by Thergi, Jan 17 2017, 05:48 AM.
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| Ausar | Jan 17 2017, 05:50 AM Post #244 |
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Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
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Mastodon Throughout its entire temporal range, I can think of at least three species among two genera of horned dinosaurs Tyrannosaurus hunted. There were the two species of Triceratops (T. horridus and T. prorsus) and Torosaurus latus. These are just those that I'm absolutely sure coexisted with the giant tyrannosaurid. Edited by Ausar, Jan 17 2017, 06:16 AM.
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| Prehistory Lover | Jan 26 2017, 12:06 AM Post #245 |
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Autotrophic Organism
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Tyrannosaurus hunted prey such as Triceratops that were both more heavily armed than the Rhino and Tyrannosaurus itself was larger than the Rhino. The rhino has no real advantage other than momentum and its large horn but Tyrannosaurus was fast itself and it had far more devastating weaponry. |
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| T-Rekt | Apr 17 2017, 11:22 AM Post #246 |
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Unicellular Organism
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Tyrannosaurus could grab the rhino's head to stop its attack IMO. If tyrannosaurus kept low, and made sure the rhino couldn't get under it, it should win. A winning bite to the head or neck is possible. T-rex 8/10 |
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| Kazanshin | Apr 17 2017, 02:02 PM Post #247 |
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Herbivore
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^8/10 is saying a lot, my friend. |
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| T-Rekt | Apr 17 2017, 02:04 PM Post #248 |
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Unicellular Organism
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Mostly because tyrannosaurus is larger and capable of more damage. |
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| Kazanshin | Apr 17 2017, 02:07 PM Post #249 |
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Herbivore
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While I agree T-Rex will win more often than not, that horn can deal some real damage too. |
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| T-Rekt | Apr 17 2017, 02:17 PM Post #250 |
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Unicellular Organism
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Most likely it could. But no elasmotherium horn has ever been found. We don't know how big and deadly it actually was. Edited by T-Rekt, Apr 17 2017, 02:17 PM.
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| Kazanshin | Apr 17 2017, 02:22 PM Post #251 |
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Herbivore
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Oh, ok then. If we don't even know haw deadly the horn was, then I can agree. |
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| Soopairik | Apr 17 2017, 02:54 PM Post #252 |
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Carnoferox's sex toy
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But we can compare it to modern animals to have a good estimate. |
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| bone crusher | Apr 17 2017, 04:09 PM Post #253 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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T.Rex has way too much weight advantage, it could pretty much lock its jaws on the horn sideway, drag it around and manipulate the rhino anywhere it wants to. Then pin it down with its hindleg and go fro a bone crushing bite. Mismatch, would be better if it's a Tarbosaurus. |
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| Kazanshin | Apr 17 2017, 07:19 PM Post #254 |
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Herbivore
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There are signs of a T Rex breaking a triceratops' horn. I don't doubt it could do the same with the elasmotherium. |
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| Lightning | Apr 11 2018, 06:27 PM Post #255 |
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Omnivore
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The elasmotherium is doomed. The T.rex is larger, has more formidable weaponary, better durability (https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1393-sue-postmortem-reveals-extensive-injuries/), killer instinct and likely greater speed and agility. The elasmotherium's horn (if it even had one) will not fatally injure an animal much larger than itself. Here, a buffalo, who is less than half the size of the rhino, takes many stabs from the rhino's horn and, yet, the buffalo survives until the next day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0B5pIX2B2o And, here, a rhino does extremely poorly in a fight with a buffalo less than half its size. The rhino stabs the much smaller buffalo a few times but the buffalo survives and doesn't look too badly injuried. The rhino is injured on the face from the buffalo's assults: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lppidNnV3qY&feature=youtu.be Edited by Lightning, Apr 11 2018, 06:28 PM.
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