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Steppe Rhinoceros v Tyrannosaurus rex
Topic Started: Feb 10 2012, 06:44 PM (33,459 Views)
Taipan
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Steppe Rhinoceros - Elasmotherium caucasicum
Elasmotherium ("Thin Plate Beast") is an extinct genus of giant rhinoceros endemic to Eurasia during the Late Pliocene through the Pleistocene, documented from 2.6 mya to as late as 50,000 years ago, possibly later, in the Late Pleistocene, an approximate span of slightly less than 2.6 million years. Three species are recognised. The best known, E. sibiricum was the size of a mammoth and is thought to have borne a large, thick horn on its forehead which was used for defense, attracting mates, driving away competitors, sweeping snow from the grass in winter and digging for water and plant roots. Like all rhinoceroses, elasmotheres were herbivorous. Unlike any others, its high-crowned molars were ever-growing. Its legs were longer than those of other rhinos and were designed for galloping, giving it a horse-like gait. The Russian paleontologists of the 19th century who discovered and named the initial fossils were influenced by ancient legends of a huge unicorn roaming the steppes of Siberia. To date no evidence either contradicts or confirms the possibility that Elasmotherium survived into legendary times. The most reconstructed species is perhaps E. sibiricum by generations of scientists working at the Paleontological Museum in Moscow and elsewhere in Russia. The majority of the fossils fall or have fallen within their national jurisdiction. The dimensions and morphology of the various reconstructions vary considerably. They are for the most part estimating the gross details from the minutiae. However, they all agree on the general order of magnitude, that sibiricum was comparable to a Mammoth and was rather larger than the contemporary Woolly Rhinoceros. E. sibiricum had a measured shoulder height of approximately 2 metres (6.6 ft). To it, however, must be added the height of a massive hump anchored on the fin-like transverse processes extending from the top of the cervical vertebrae, a maximum of 53 centimetres (1.74 ft). The total height then was in excess of 253 centimetres (8.30 ft). The measured length of sibiricum (from a nearly complete skeleton found at Gaevskaya) is 4.5 metres (15 ft). Extrapolation from the greater size of caucasicum molars obtains a length of 5 metres (16 ft)—5.2 metres (17 ft) for caucasicum. According to Legendre's formula, E. sibiricum had a mass of over 4,000 kilograms (3.9 long tons; 4.4 short tons); E. caucasicum, 5,000 kilograms (4.9 long tons; 5.5 short tons). These weights place Elasmotherium in the "really huge" category of all Rhinocerotidae and therefore the animal was "strongly brachyopodial;" that is, they required feet of large contact area to prevent sinking into the soil. The feet were unguligrade, the front larger than the rear: purely tridactyl on Digits II-IV in the rear, but with an extra vestigial digit, I, in the front.

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Tyrannosaurus rex
Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago. It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes.

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Prehistoric Cat
Feb 10 2012, 01:07 AM
Tyrannosaurus Rex v Elasmotherium Caucasicum
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Drift
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Ausar
Oct 19 2014, 11:24 AM
^^>Because a rhino's horn can be wielded like a sword in a human's hands. Granted, neither is a tyrannosaurid's head/neck a set of bolt cutters wielded by human hands, but nonetheless that wasn't really a good way to put it.

Furthermore, while I'm not at all insinuating that horn-biting is going to be a tactic Tyrannosaurus will utilize here (or at least a chief, offense-oriented one), as Tyrant said, there's an actual Triceratops orbital horn that was bitten in half by a Tyrannosaurus' jaws (IIRC, the latter was trying to defend itself from being gored), so "catching"* a horn (*implying the T.rex is on the offensive in an attempt to grab the horn, when in the one case that it happened, the predator was most likely trying to defend itself) isn't an issue. Granted there are signs of healing on the Triceratops' horn, so it obviously survived the encounter, hence the T.rex failed. However, I do want to say that if by some chance there's ever a scenario where the same thing happens here, then the rhino would lose its only weapon. This is a fight to the death, so fleeing (which for all we know the Trike could have done) isn't exactly an option. And fighting back with a remaining horn (which for all we know the Trike could have done) certainly isn't an option.

In any case, if the rhino isn't quite as big as initally stated (I believe the explanation was given earlier), then there's no need to waste time grabbing that horn in the first place. Tyrannosaurus wouldn't lose to a herbivore smaller than itself (and certainly not one with perhaps questionable weaponry at the same time).
Agreed,facing off with larger herbivores (Triceratops when the ambush was unsuccessful) would be ample experience with quadrupedal threats.As for the rhino, there is nothing remotely close to a Tyrannosaurus that would give it even the slightest visual familiarity to predators in its habitat.Tyrannosaurus takes this.
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Nergigante
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Is this size comparison correct?
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If so then the t rex would easily get gored to death or tackled to the ground easily and then get gored.
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Mirounga leonina
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BlackGrizzly
May 9 2016, 03:55 PM
Is this size comparison correct?
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If so then the t rex would easily get gored to death or tackled to the ground easily and then get gored.
That scale contains Tarbosaurus, and came from this forum.

http://carnivoraforum.com/single/?p=8229423&t=9358317
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Ausar
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BlackGrizzly
 
If so then the t rex would easily get gored to death or tackled to the ground easily and then get gored.
Because we all know the usage of likely superior mobility against other animals was a foreign concept to tyrannosaurids.
Edited by Ausar, May 9 2016, 08:45 PM.
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Gyirin
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I don't think the Steppe rhinoceros horn is at good position to gore something on the ground. So I think it should gore the T.rex while its standing.
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buteo
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if the elasmotherium charge with its horn with great momentum ,t-rex couldnt avoid that attack well maybe it could but t-rex cant attack efficiently during rhinos charge and one single strike from this horn would be end of trex
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Tyrant
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^What I want to know is why everyone assumes the rhinos attack will be an instant kill.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjE6X4lbto0

The rhino's horn is a potent weapon but it is not made out of steel. It's not going to slip through the trex's flesh like butter, in all likelihood the rhino will be struggling to drive its horn in while a rex is taking chunks out of its back.

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Black Ice
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Didn't a rhino like flip a warthog and the suid was fine?
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Spartan
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I think the warthog died, but I'm not sure. It should be pretty clear that the rhinoceros could kill the T. rex if it manages to gore it, but it's all about the 'if' here. T. rex is far bigger, also very well armed and should know how to deal with such an opponent. If the theropod manages to bite the horn it's over, unlike with Triceratops.
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Tyrant
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Quote:
 
I think the warthog died, but I'm not sure. It should be pretty clear that the rhinoceros could kill the T. rex if it manages to gore it, but it's all about the 'if' here.


Yes, but it wouldn't necessarily be quick. It took an entire day for the buffalo to succumb to the injuries the rhino inflicted on it. So even if the rhino does manage to stab the rex in the gut, there is a good chance the rhino will get its neck/skull crushed before the dinosaur bleeds out.
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Spartan
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Depends where it hits. If it gores the heart or Aorta it would be a matter of seconds. Regardless, I highly favor T. rex here.
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Vivyx
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How effectively can that horn even be used? I remember fossil evidence shown that a Tyrannosaurus grabbed the horns of a Triceratops and broke them. Considering that Elasmotherium's horn is much larger (but actually likely more fragile than Triceratops') than Triceratops' horn, it could be possible that the Tyrannosaurus could take advantage of the situation by grabbing a hold of that horn and breaking it. Another reason why Elasmotherium's horn is easier to break is because it's the rhino's only horn, while Triceratops has other horns to defend itself from such an attack as well, making it riskier to attack in that fashion.

It's also worth noting that it has been speculated quite a few times around here that Elasmotherium's horn might be too fragile and too long to actually be put into good enough use where it can go in combat with. A picture by blaze (credit to him for the comparison) to show what I'm talking about:

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I also like Tyrant's argument that the rhino won't exactly insta-kill the Tyrannosaurus with it's horn.

Tyrannosaurus already has experience in killing tougher, larger, horned prey, and should take this more often than not. I back Tyrannosaurus here about 7-8/10.
Edited by Vivyx, May 10 2016, 02:20 AM.
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Nergigante
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I do not think grasping the horn by its mouth its the best idea, the horn would be pushed foward and penetrate the skull.
Edited by Nergigante, May 10 2016, 02:43 AM.
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Spartan
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It would of course try to bite the Horn like this

Posted Image

and not with the tip facing its own skull.
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Ausar
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Quote:
 
What I want to know is why everyone assumes the rhinos attack will be an instant kill.
You want to know what I want to know? What I want to know is why everyone thinks that this needs to be a matter of how well Tyrannosaurus would fare against Elasmotherium if they (figuratively) clashed head on. Just look at the anatomy of the two animals; Tyrannosaurus has a lighter build than Elasmotherium, pneumatic bones that would make it lighter on its feet than it looks, tightly-locked metatarsals for increased torsional resistance, and extensive air sinuses in its skull that would make its head lighter, all of which would allow for greater agility and none of which are in the possession of the rhino to my knowledge. And for those who count speed as an advantage (I'm now conflicted on this issue), then Tyrannosaurus would have that advantage as well (it's more specialized for cursoriality). It seems as if the tyrannosaurid has a mobility advantage that it can take advantage of here; this doesn't need to be a matter of "rhino charges, it's over".
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