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| Visual Comparisons Thread | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 7 2012, 01:17 AM (507,255 Views) | |
| Neofelis | Oct 2 2012, 05:26 AM Post #781 |
Heterotrophic Organism
  ![]](http://b2.ifrm.com/28122/87/0/p701956/pipright.png)
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Can someone make a Caucasian Ovcharka or anycentral Asian LGD and a Cape Leopard/ Clouded Leopard comparison just to see the sizes. |
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| Grey | Oct 3 2012, 01:02 AM Post #782 |
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Kleptoparasite
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Nice drawing ! But few points : - The largest confirmed sperm whale was 20,5 m. -The upper peak size of Livyatan is 17,5 m. (I wouldn't use my personnal feeling regarding any maximum or average) - The size disparity between some models does not seem to be respected. - P.macromerus has shrunk to 13 m. - Why two different models of C.megalodon ? The Nat Geo and Discovery one are up to date. Having talked with Dr Ciampaglio (involved in Sharkzilla show), he said me the actual CGI model was too much great white-like and not enoughly robust...despite this model is still bulkier than those there. |
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| Elosha11 | Oct 3 2012, 01:46 AM Post #783 |
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Herbivore
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^I have also spoken to Dr. Chuck Ciampaglio since the Sharkzilla program. He told me he thought Megalodon's jaw structure was somewhere between a tiger shark and a great whites, which to him suggests a shark with a bit comparatively larger and wider jaw structure than the great white. This is one reason why the Sharkzilla CGI shark was still a bit too "small headed" in his view. |
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| Sam1 | Oct 3 2012, 01:48 AM Post #784 |
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Herbivore
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What size disparity? Have you even checked the measures or are just talking out of your butt? I maintain this sperm whale maximum as a conservative one on my behalf actually. If you challenge that, lets see how objective you are - what is the maximum confirmed size of GWS, and what is the maximum size according to you? Again, Livyatan maxx estimation is my personal one, hence the remark. I'll just note the average sizes for some of the other animals here: - blue whale female 24.5m - sperm whale male 15m - megalodon probably < 15m - orca male 6.7m Can you confirm the Pliosaur macromerus information? If so, I'll make a change |
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| Grey | Oct 3 2012, 02:17 AM Post #785 |
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Kleptoparasite
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Nobel Prize line as usual. Necessary to get angry because of a comment. Size disparity, the larger Livyatan and megalodon seems pretty much the same length.
The maximum confirmed was 20,5 m and 88 tons for a bull caught in the 50's. The 24-25-26m or so whalers claims and outdated estimates.
The largest Great White confirmed was 6,39 m long. The maximum size is established by fossilised remains indicating a maximum BL approaching 8 m. That's fact, not an easy personnal guess. State some average size to C.megalodon is biased.
McHenry, 2009. I don't have the document on the hand. Edited by Grey, Oct 3 2012, 02:20 AM.
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| Sam1 | Oct 3 2012, 03:42 AM Post #786 |
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Herbivore
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Grey, You most certainly deserved that line because you obviously bashed my effort without even checking it out for your self. Use a ruler and measure it for your self! Take Livyatan end TL point like i demonstrated in another depiction and you will find the measures to be spot on. GWS maxx lenght 8m?? Gosh, do you even see what i did to you? Lol. I actually agree with that comparatively OUTRAGEOUS number based purely on fossilized remains. Seems like Great whites were MUCH larger once, than in recent centuries, huh? A peculiar phenomenon that you, of course, take for granted. Yet, when it comes to my really moderate 21.5m estimate for a sw, you, of course, dismiss it, as well as the fact that there are REAL, COMPLETE bones and official statements indicating at least a 24m animal. Who is the biased one now? Edited by Sam1, Oct 3 2012, 03:43 AM.
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| theropod | Oct 3 2012, 04:18 AM Post #787 |
palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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May I recall there is no "accurate C. megalodon" reconstruction? each could be wrong, noone really knows the exact look of this animal. thus including several versions is appropriate |
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| Elosha11 | Oct 3 2012, 04:35 AM Post #788 |
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Herbivore
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Too bad the old sperm whale sizes debates from the old carnivora forum could not have been copied over here. From what I remember, there is disagreement with regard to how long the Nantucket sperm whale was in real life, with a range of about 20 to 24 meters. If my memory is correct believe Richard Ellis and others think the larger estimates are exaggerated and that in general, bull sperm whales are probably larger on average today than before they were hunted. It really depends on how you measure the 5.5 meter jawbone of the Nantucket and other large specimens. I'd say 15 meters is a large bull sperm whale today, not an average one. Average is probably more like 13-14 meters. |
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| Grey | Oct 3 2012, 04:45 AM Post #789 |
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Kleptoparasite
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You are really an antipathic dude... Anyway. As I said I don't give much of your scale, almost no depiction is accurate and of course you used the most gracilish megalodon from the Sea Monsters show. GWS at 8 m ? Yes. The largest fossils teeth of this species indicate sharks that big. What's the matter then ? The largest accurately measured female in modern time was 6,39 m. Sharks around 7 m are suspected. It remains an estimated 3 000 animals living in the world. Do the math. Of course I use the maximum known from th species, no matter today or during Pliocene, this is the same species. REAL COMPLETE BONES AND OFFICIAL STATEMENTS ! So funny. You mean the two big jawbones reported which are subjected to numerous revisions since a while, which shrunk the size of these guys at around 21 m ? You mean also the few websites reporting these fantastic sizes ? There are still websites stating megalodons at 27-30 m... You mean of the Nantucket Museum who still use this size ! Yes, this Museum has as much credential as the exhibition of Bashford Dean, when 30 m was thought conservative for C.megalodon ! No mention of Hal Whitehead (who is to sperm whales what Tom Holtz is to T.rex) who dismissed these sizes. No mention even to Richard Ellis who dedicated a complete chapter to sperm whale size in his last book where he concludes few reached above 18 m... But of course I'm biased and these guys have no credentials by comparison with SAM1 who has...HOMEWORK DRAWINGS...and GUESS ! Seriously, WTF ?! Edited by Grey, Oct 3 2012, 04:54 AM.
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| Grey | Oct 3 2012, 04:56 AM Post #790 |
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Kleptoparasite
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Of course, but the things to do in that case is to use the most widely acknowledged suggestions. This is what I do concerning any problematic extinct taxa. |
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| Sam1 | Oct 3 2012, 05:54 AM Post #791 |
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Herbivore
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Keep your judgments for your self Grey. You demonstrated the lack of seriousness and respect as well as the utmost bias without even realizing it and i'm tired of repeating my self to you. The 5.5m and 5.2m Sperm whale jaws are, and always will remain what they are.. Whitehead and Ellis weren't talking about these two individuals. Unless they discovered that sperm whale anatomy and proportions shrunk miraculously during time, so the estimation doesn't work anymore? (while in fact the upper estimation for the 5.5m jaw still goes up to 27.5m technically) Also, the theory of density dependent growth is far from conclusive in general terms..it also states that "Increases in the maximum size of males were possibly preceded by a change in the frequency distribution of body lengths in the middle 1960s when only 10% of the postwar catch had been taken". Keep in mind that no large adult male sperm whale was measured during whaling up until late 19th century - it just wasn't possible. Edited by Sam1, Oct 3 2012, 05:56 AM.
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| Grey | Oct 3 2012, 07:44 AM Post #792 |
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Kleptoparasite
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When I asked Whitehead I spoke about these jaws actually and he obviously refered to it in the response. He still mentioned that due to larger populations, of course there could have been larger bulls, still 80 feet being unlikely and Ellis in his chapter talked about the history of sperm whales growth, including in the past. The two jawbones only indicates animals in the 21 m range. Mocha Dick as always been described as an unusually old and large individual. When eventually caught, it was measured precisely at 70 feet. Hence, all the modern indications point on this size range, why do you want fanatically animals in the 25 m range or more, sizes today just totally questioned ? Found me one current account, study, work or opinion from a cetacean specialist based on some stuff, then we can talk. Until that, you chase a chimera. 25 m sperm whales are just a propaganda diffused by total jerks on the web to date. A 18-21 m Bull is all time a very large specimen, and a true monster by any standard. No need of godzillaisation when you are objective. Apologizes for my bad attitude but question yourself on your own approach and behavior please. |
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| Sam1 | Oct 3 2012, 08:44 AM Post #793 |
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Herbivore
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Well, I used a 21.5m whale in case you missed. That's just the lowest I can go based on what I deduct and know about these animals. It has nothing to do with some childish desire to make them as large as can be, but simply with what I believe to be logical. And that is why I would like to be proven wrong on a credible basis. How can I contact Whitehead? Apologies accepted. I apologize for my lack of tolerance and patience. |
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| Megafelis Fatalis | Oct 6 2012, 04:32 PM Post #794 |
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Carnivore
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LINK LINK LINK |
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| Superpredator | Oct 6 2012, 04:39 PM Post #795 |
Apex Predator
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