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Cougar v Komodo Dragon
Topic Started: Mar 27 2012, 04:40 PM (10,052 Views)
Taipan
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Cougar - Puma concolor
The cougar (Puma concolor), also known as puma, mountain lion, mountain cat, catamount or panther, depending on the region, is a mammal of the family Felidae, native to the Americas. This large, solitary cat has the greatest range of any large wild terrestrial mammal in the Western Hemisphere, extending from Yukon in Canada to the southern Andes of South America. An adaptable, generalist species, the cougar is found in every major American habitat type. It is the second heaviest cat in the American continents after the jaguar. Although large, the cougar is most closely related to smaller felines. Cougars are slender and agile cats. They are the fourth largest cats and adults stand about 60 to 76 centimeters (2.0 to 2.5 ft) tall at the shoulders. The length of adult males is around 2.4 meters (8 ft) long nose to tail, with overall ranges between 1.5 and 2.75 m (5 and 9 ft) nose to tail suggested for the species in general. Males typically weigh 53 to 100 kilograms (115 to 220 pounds), averaging 62 kg (137 lb). Females typically weigh between 29 and 64 kg (64 and 141 lb), averaging 42 kg (93 lb). Cougar size is smallest close to the equator, and larger towards the poles. The largest recorded cougar was shot in Arizona and weighed 125.5 kilograms (276 pounds) after its intestines were removed, indicating that in life it could have weighed nearly 136.2 kilograms (300 pounds). Several male cougars in British Columbia weighed between 86.4 and 95.5 kilograms (190 to 210 pounds).

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Komodo Dragon - Varanus komodoensis
The Komodo dragon (Varanus komodoensis), also known as the Komodo monitor, is a large species of lizard found in the Indonesian islands of Komodo, Rinca, Flores, Gili Motang and Gili Dasami. A member of the monitor lizard family (Varanidae), it is the largest living species of lizard, growing to a maximum length of 3 metres (9.8 ft) in rare cases and weighing up to around 70 kilograms (150 lb). Their unusual size has been attributed to island gigantism, since there are no other carnivorous animals to fill the niche on the islands where they live. As a result of their size, these lizards dominate the ecosystems in which they live. Komodo dragons hunt and ambush prey including invertebrates, birds, and mammals. Their group behaviour in hunting is exceptional in the reptile world. The diet of big Komodo dragons mainly consists of deer, though they also eat considerable amounts of carrion. In the wild, an adult Komodo dragon usually weighs around 70 kilograms (150 lb), although captive specimens often weigh more. The largest verified wild specimen was 3.13 metres (10 ft 3 in) long and weighed 166 kilograms (370 lb), including undigested food. The Komodo dragon has a tail as long as its body, as well as about 60 frequently replaced serrated teeth that can measure up to 2.5 centimetres (1 in) in length.

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DinosaurMichael
Mar 26 2012, 08:38 PM
Cougar vs Komodo Dragon
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Replies:
alikaren
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Sensi
May 1 2013, 01:17 AM
Wikipedia lying. ;P

I assume:
Komodo Dragon - 180kg,
Puma - 105kg.

Dragon wins. It is so stronger.
Wikipedia's lying? Because I can't find any dragon bigger than that giant 166 kg one, which also had undigested food. :p

If you use max estimates for one species, you should do it for the other.
Like:

Komodo Dragon: Slightly less than 166 kg

Cougar: Almost 136.2 kg
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Vita
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alikaren
May 7 2013, 11:28 AM
Sensi
May 1 2013, 01:17 AM
Wikipedia lying. ;P

I assume:
Komodo Dragon - 180kg,
Puma - 105kg.

Dragon wins. It is so stronger.
Wikipedia's lying? Because I can't find any dragon bigger than that giant 166 kg one, which also had undigested food. :p

If you use max estimates for one species, you should do it for the other.
Like:

Komodo Dragon: Slightly less than 166 kg

Cougar: Almost 136.2 kg
Wikipedia can be inaccurate at times. It states the weight of a bull terrier is over 80kg.
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alikaren
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Hyaena
May 7 2013, 11:31 AM
alikaren
May 7 2013, 11:28 AM
Sensi
May 1 2013, 01:17 AM
Wikipedia lying. ;P

I assume:
Komodo Dragon - 180kg,
Puma - 105kg.

Dragon wins. It is so stronger.
Wikipedia's lying? Because I can't find any dragon bigger than that giant 166 kg one, which also had undigested food. :p

If you use max estimates for one species, you should do it for the other.
Like:

Komodo Dragon: Slightly less than 166 kg

Cougar: Almost 136.2 kg
Wikipedia can be inaccurate at times. It states the weight of a bull terrier is over 80kg.
I looked at a couple of other websites, and still, the biggest komodo I can find is 166 kg.
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theropod
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the biggest komodo dragon is <90kg, no scientific source gives weights in excess of that.
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ManEater
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coherentsheaf: Be honest, the komodo who attack in the video is slim and not very impressive, that's why maybe he is "quite fast", felines are far more agile and quickly. (i don't speak of the one on the beach who is not the same)
Edited by ManEater, May 8 2013, 12:20 AM.
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coherentsheaf
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ManEater
May 8 2013, 12:19 AM
coherentsheaf: Be honest, the komodo who attack in the video is slim and not very impressive, that's why maybe he is "quite fast", felines are far more agile and quickly. (i don't speak of the one on the beach who is not the same)
You can give an analysis of the scaling factors involved if you whish, I feel not qualified to do so. I would guestimate that the dragon weighs between 30 and 50 kg and that larger individuals would be not much larger and therefore capable of similar acceleration. Your implication that I am not honest is noted.
Edited by coherentsheaf, May 8 2013, 12:32 AM.
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FelinePowah
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coherentsheaf
Jun 27 2012, 08:06 PM


For example it is able to catch that deer, because while the top speed of the deer is higher, the acceleration not necessarily is that high.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6Riq-d4W_o

lol oh please the deer has far higher acceleration... plus that deer was already sitting down and didnt look very healthy and the fact that they let the lizards get so close before they react shows they dont see the lizards as a large threat.
Edited by FelinePowah, May 8 2013, 04:25 AM.
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Black Ice
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FelinePowah
May 8 2013, 04:22 AM
coherentsheaf
Jun 27 2012, 08:06 PM


For example it is able to catch that deer, because while the top speed of the deer is higher, the acceleration not necessarily is that high.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6Riq-d4W_o

lol oh please the deer has far higher acceleration...
Obviously not otherwise the dragon wouldn't have caught the deer genius rolleyes
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Vivec
Canid and snake enthusiast.
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Black Ice
May 8 2013, 04:24 AM
FelinePowah
May 8 2013, 04:22 AM
coherentsheaf
Jun 27 2012, 08:06 PM


For example it is able to catch that deer, because while the top speed of the deer is higher, the acceleration not necessarily is that high.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6Riq-d4W_o

lol oh please the deer has far higher acceleration...
Obviously not otherwise the dragon wouldn't have caught the deer genius rolleyes
To be fair a deer is probably faster than the Lizard.
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FelinePowah
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Black Ice
May 8 2013, 04:24 AM
FelinePowah
May 8 2013, 04:22 AM
coherentsheaf
Jun 27 2012, 08:06 PM


For example it is able to catch that deer, because while the top speed of the deer is higher, the acceleration not necessarily is that high.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6Riq-d4W_o

lol oh please the deer has far higher acceleration...
Obviously not otherwise the dragon wouldn't have caught the deer genius rolleyes
Stick a real predator in there like a puma or wolf then we would see the deer really accelerate...

The deer just dont see the dragons as a huge threat like how deer see mammal predators...
Compared to the puma the lizard is so slow it might as well be going in reverse.
Edited by FelinePowah, May 8 2013, 04:31 AM.
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FelinePowah
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Scythian
May 8 2013, 04:29 AM
Black Ice
May 8 2013, 04:24 AM
FelinePowah
May 8 2013, 04:22 AM
coherentsheaf
Jun 27 2012, 08:06 PM


For example it is able to catch that deer, because while the top speed of the deer is higher, the acceleration not necessarily is that high.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6Riq-d4W_o

lol oh please the deer has far higher acceleration...
Obviously not otherwise the dragon wouldn't have caught the deer genius rolleyes
To be fair a deer is probably faster than the Lizard.
Probably???? you think the lizard has a chance at keeping up with a deer??? really????
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theropod
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FelinePowah
May 8 2013, 04:22 AM
coherentsheaf
Jun 27 2012, 08:06 PM


For example it is able to catch that deer, because while the top speed of the deer is higher, the acceleration not necessarily is that high.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6Riq-d4W_o

lol oh please the deer has far higher acceleration...
I don't see why it got bitten if it has...

Top speed=/=accelleration

The former has a lot to do with running efficiency;
fast animals will have long elongated legs, especially elongated distal elements tough there are always exceptions, muscles concentrated around femur/humerus and hip/pectoral girdle with mostly tendons being what reaches down lower. Cats are not a perfect example of this, most of them not having PARTICULARLY long or elongated legs, and a lot of muscle not only on the most proximal parts. Thats what sets cats apart from truly cursorial predators like canids. Cats are capable of fast accelleration, something shorter legs are not a hindrance for, and can be very fast in short burst, due to their muscularity and fast twitching muscles.
However, they are not very energy efficient while running and can therefore not maintain a high speed for long time. Compared to the dragon, the cougar certainly has a much higher top speed, because it has longer, by comparison more effective legs. However it is not built for speed the way most perissodactyls are (eg. deer). Typical cats are in between animals with short legs, eg. varanids or crocodilians, that can accellerate fast but attain onyl moderate speeds) and long legged animals like canids, hoofed animals etc. which attain great top speeds and are able to maintain them for a long time.
Being very fast doesn't equal being very fast to accellerate.
Shorter, muscular legs can accellerate just as fast or faster than longer, slender ones, even tough their top-speed is limited as is their efficiency. That's why Varanus komodoensis is able to catch deer, and that's why there is no solid base whatsoever for any supposed advantage in accelleration on the side of the cat.

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theropod
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FelinePowah
May 8 2013, 04:30 AM
Black Ice
May 8 2013, 04:24 AM
FelinePowah
May 8 2013, 04:22 AM
coherentsheaf
Jun 27 2012, 08:06 PM


For example it is able to catch that deer, because while the top speed of the deer is higher, the acceleration not necessarily is that high.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6Riq-d4W_o

lol oh please the deer has far higher acceleration...
Obviously not otherwise the dragon wouldn't have caught the deer genius rolleyes
Stick a real predator in there like a puma or wolf then we would see the deer really accelerate...

The deer just dont see the dragons as a huge threat like how deer see mammal predators...
Compared to the puma the lizard is so slow it might as well be going in reverse.
What the hell is your problem? If at all, the deer wouldn't see a mammal that it has not coexisted with as a predator. IF it hadn't seen it as a threat, it wouldn't have run at all, and its guts would have been spilled a little bit earlier (and that's what could happen to the cougar if it isn't very careful, even tough I can think of scenarios that are more likely).

A herbivore doesn't take the risk of being captured by "going in reserve". either it sees a threat and runs, or id doesn'tand stays were it is. It saw a threat, it tried to escape, but it couldn't accellerate fast enoguh. Get over it!

And Komodo dragons are every bit as capable predators as cats or dogs. To be honest, I have yet to see the cougar or a similar-sized carnivoran bringing down a buffalo-sized bovine on its own...
I also have yet to see an exatant predator whose bite inflicts more horrific exanguination and raw mechanical damage.

Admittedly, the lizard has no chance to keep up with a deer's top speed, that obviously doesn't mean it is unable to catch it. It cannot keep up with the cougar's top speed either, but it's not top speed that decides a fight. Accelleration is more important here.
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Black Ice
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Scythian
May 8 2013, 04:29 AM
Black Ice
May 8 2013, 04:24 AM
FelinePowah
May 8 2013, 04:22 AM
coherentsheaf
Jun 27 2012, 08:06 PM


For example it is able to catch that deer, because while the top speed of the deer is higher, the acceleration not necessarily is that high.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6Riq-d4W_o

lol oh please the deer has far higher acceleration...
Obviously not otherwise the dragon wouldn't have caught the deer genius rolleyes
To be fair a deer is probably faster than the Lizard.
Acceleration and top speed are not the same thing. Acceleration is the time it takes for you to reach top speed from a stationary position. Top speed is the fastest you can run. if you have a higher top speed than me, but I accelerate faster, if we raced, for the first few seconds I would be ahead of you because I accelerate faster thus I reach top speed before you. The komodo dragons higher acceleration rate is what allowed it to catch the faster deer so quickly.

@Theropod
He's felinepowah, did you really not expect that reply from him?
Edited by Black Ice, May 8 2013, 04:54 AM.
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theropod
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I did absolutely expect some fanboyism, but I just cannot keep myself from being astonished every single time I hear some of his BS
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