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Arctodus simus v Sumatran Rhinoceros
Topic Started: Mar 28 2012, 08:20 PM (6,783 Views)
Taipan
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Arctodus simus
Arctodus (Greek, "bear tooth") — known as the short-faced bear or bulldog bear — is an extinct genus of bear endemic to North America during the Pleistocene ~3.0 Ma.—11,000 years ago, existing for approximately three million years. Arctodus simus may have once been Earth's largest mammalian, terrestrial carnivore. It was the most common of early North American bears, being most abundant in California. It was native to prehistoric North America from about 800,000 years ago, and became extinct about 12,500 years ago. It has been found from as far north as Ikpikpuk River, Alaska to Lowndes County, Mississippi. It is one of the largest bears in the fossil record and was among the largest mammalian land predators of all time. The type specimen came from Potter Creek Cave in Shasta County, California. In a recent study, the mass of six A. simus specimens was estimated, one-third of them weighed about 900 kg (1 short ton), the largest being UVP 015 at 957 kg (2,110 lb), suggesting specimens that big were probably more common than previously thought. It stood 8–10 feet (2.4–3.0 m) tall on hind legs while a large specimen would have been 11–12 feet (3.4–3.7 m) tall with a 14-foot (4.3 m) vertical arm reach.

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Sumatran Rhinoceros - Dicerorhinus sumatrensis
The Sumatran rhinoceros (Dicerorhinus sumatrensis) is a member of the family Rhinocerotidae and one of five extant rhinoceroses. It is the only extant species of the genus Dicerorhinus. It is the smallest rhinoceros, although is still a large mammal. This rhino stands 112–145 cm (3.67–4.76 ft) high at the shoulder, with a head-and-body length of 2.36–3.18 m (7.7–10.4 ft) and a tail of 35–70 cm (14–28 in). The weight is reported to range from 500 to 1,000 kg (1,100 to 2,200 lb), averaging 700–800 kg (1,500–1,800 lb), although there is a single record of a 2,000 kg (4,400 lb) specimen. Like the African species, it has two horns; the larger is the nasal horn, typically 15–25 centimetres (5.9–9.8 in), while the other horn is typically a stub. A coat of reddish-brown hair covers most of the Sumatran rhino's body.

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Prehistoric Cat
Mar 28 2012, 02:00 AM
Arctodus Simus v Sumatran Rhinoceros
Edited by Taipan, Oct 21 2017, 07:49 PM.
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Ursus panthera
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Bear wins
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Mauro20
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Verdugo
Nov 30 2012, 06:20 PM
I'm going with the rhino here, Arctodus isn't the most formidable bear
And the Sumatran rhinoceros isn't the most formidable rhino. I think the bear has a good chance here.
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Palaeogirl
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I think the Rhino will win more often than not, provided that this is face to face. A charge could seriously injure the bear.
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Archipithecus
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Mack
Mar 29 2012, 05:44 AM
Hmm, the rhino have accually pretty blunt horns based on the picture. How is it able to penetrate with those horns, the bears flesh?
If you get hit by a charging 800 pound rhino, it will hurt whether the horns are sharp or blunt. :)
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Vivyx
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I think that the bear would win this like how modern bears would take down bovines; by wrestling them with their flexible forelimbs and overpowering them.
Edited by Vivyx, Feb 3 2017, 02:42 AM.
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Sleipnir
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mohamad
Jun 29 2012, 07:25 AM
if 2 brown bear =800 kg can kills an american bison 800kg i think a 800 kg giant short faced bear should kills the rhino=(650 kg average) who are less weaponary than bison. the bear also would kills an animals more powrfull than the sumatran Rhino
Seriously? lol lol lol Where did the 650 kg average come from? 😆😆😆
Edited by Sleipnir, Nov 2 2014, 01:24 PM.
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Nergigante
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I like the bear's chances, it could crush the cervical vertebrae or just maul it from behind, it would similar to a predator-prey relationship.
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Soopairik
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Hmmm I can see it a close fight, though slightly in the bear's favor. Both can inflict lots of damage, but the bear can probably do slightly more.
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Ausar
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The Sumatran rhinoceros seems to be small enough for Arctodus to kill the same way modern bears kill creatures such as bovines; i.e. wrestling with the head and landing a bite (both animals are of similar body mass).
Edited by Ausar, Feb 3 2017, 02:40 AM.
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Kiryu2012
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I feel like siding with the bear. The rhino's horns don't look very impressive. I could see the bear winning by wrestling the rhino to the ground Far Cry Primal style.
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Lightning
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Mismatch in favour of the bear.

The bear is larger than the average rhino, the bear's jaws and paws are better weapons than the rhino's blunt horn, the bear also has grappling ability and killer instinct.

Bear wins 9/10
DinosaurMichael
Mar 29 2012, 06:06 AM
Mack
Mar 29 2012, 05:44 AM
Hmm, the rhino have accually pretty blunt horns based on the picture. How is it able to penetrate with those horns, the bears flesh?
Not all Sumatran Rhinos have blunt horns. Here's pictures of the Sumatran Rhinoceros only it's horns are pointier and possibly sharper.

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I guess it depends on how their horns look when they are born.
Even these horns look unimpressive compared to the horns of black/white rhinos.
Edited by Lightning, Mar 30 2018, 09:25 PM.
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Ursus 21
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People shouldn't be looking at the rhino's horns.

Asian rhinos don't rely on their horns when fighting, they inflict damage with their teeth:

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Teeth: Although their horn may not be as long as other well-known species of rhino, Greater one-horned rhinos have very long lower incisor teeth that can be used in fighting to inflict deep wounds. In males they can grow up to 8 cm long.

Source: Fact File - Asian rhinos

I think the bear will try and grab the rhino side-on, similar to how modern bears tackle large mammalian prey. He will use his paws to form a grasping motion, and his long claws and plantigrade digits can provide a strong grip on the rhino. The bear would also raise to his hind-legs and attempt to put his body weight on the rhino to help force it to the ground.

But the rhino wouldn't be pulled down so easily IMO. The rhino's short legs give it a very low centre of gravity, and its wide footpads also give it a lot of balance, this would help the pachyderm stand its ground against the bear. The rhino's large, round body would also be very arduous for the bear manipulate, thus out-wrestling the rhino is even more difficult.

The bear has a powerful bite that could possibly kill the rhino, but the rhino's sheer bulk and thick armour should help parry it.

A charge from the rhino could knock the bear down when the latter raises to his hind-legs to seize the rhino, and a ram from the rhino's huge head could cause severe internal injuries; possibly broken ribs. The rhino would have difficulty using its bite IMO, because it has a very small mouth and its gape is not very wide, thus firmly fitting its jaws around the bear would be difficult.

The outcome?

I think the rhino, with his robust frame and large body, would be powerful enough to shake off the bear if the latter seizes him. The rhino's sturdy build and thick armour should prevent the bear's bite from killing him outright.

The rhino can strike the bear with his huge head, and he can charge, putting momentum behind his attack which could knock the bear down.

Killing the bear would be a problem for the rhino IMO, but I think the rhino could pull it off by stomping or kicking when the bear is down, using his weight to inflict damage. A bear who is under the weight of the rhino would also be more susceptible to being bitten and injured by its teeth.

I won't discount that the bear could prevail by landing a powerful bite to the rhino's muzzle or at the back of the neck, but I would certainly consider this outcome to be improbable.

Normally at this size scaling, I would be reluctant to favour a mammalian herbivore over a mammalian carnivore, but this time the rhino is the winner for me.
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Lightning
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A rhino killing a bear which is larger than himself by stomping and kicking is just unrealistic.

The rhino might bite but it's tiny mouth is not killing this giant bear.

The bear's bite and paws swipes are much more formidable than the rhino's bite.

The rhino is indeed very durable, so the bear will take a long time to kill it but the bear will pull it off if it's patient enough.

And, remember, this is a 900kg bear. It's paw swipes and bites will be immensely more powerful than the paw swipes and bites of a 300kg grizzly bear that we see today,

And a 900kg bear will be extremely durable to. There is no way this rhino with its inadequate weaponry is killing it.

And I also think that it's unlikely that the rhino will be able to throw the larger bear onto the ground.
Also, smaller polar bears kill walrus, which are larger and thus more durable than this rhino.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DC1KeIP8wu7w&ved=0ahUKEwjC-cuCpJTaAhVEKMAKHfN1DfkQuAIIjAEwGg&usg=AOvVaw1GP0-nmYUB2aKzQcuLOjux
Edited by Lightning, Mar 31 2018, 12:15 AM.
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Ursus 21
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Quote:
 
A rhino killing a bear which is larger than himself by stomping and kicking is just unrealistic.

If it managed to knock the bear down, my idea is that the rhino can stomp and use its weight to beat or mutilate the bear.

Killing the bear would be difficult I admit.

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The bear's bite and paws swipes are much more formidable than the rhino's bite.

But the rhino can also charge, using momentum and its weight to hit the bear with incredible force.

The rhino can ram and butt with its huge head to inflict damage.

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And, remember, this is a 900kg bear. It's paw swipes and bites will be immensely more powerful than the paw swipes and bites of a 300kg grizzly bear that we see today,

Bears don't usually kill prey with paw swipes though.

They attack prey by grasping it with their paws, using their weight and grappling abilities to bring it to the ground and kill it with a bite.

Like how this grizzly killed a reindeer: Grizzly wrestles and kills reindeer

But wrestling and grasping the rhino would be more difficult, the general roundness and the large body of the rhino would make it very hard for the bear to get its paws around it. The short legs give the rhino a lower centre of gravity and wide footpads also give the rhino a lot of balance.

Compounding this is the fact that arctodus had relatively light and gracile limbs compared to modern bears, thus the bear wrestling the rhino to the ground is very improbable IMO.

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And I also think that it's unlikely that the rhino will be able to throw the larger bear onto the ground.

It can do so by charging.

Using weight and momentum to knock the bear down.
Edited by Ursus 21, Mar 31 2018, 12:24 AM.
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Lightning
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Female grizzly severely injures bison:

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.bearbiology.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Wyman_13.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiKppD4pJTaAhVqAcAKHaV1B1AQFjAOegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw0DR6suHqotsze6mBnkyYh5

Indeed, it would be really difficult for both the bear and the rhino to kill each other. The mostly likely outcome imo is the bear beating up the rhino but failing to kill it and then each of them going their own way.

But if they both absolutely wanted to kill each other, the larger bear with its better weaponry is more likely succeed imo but after a long time.
Ursus 21
Mar 31 2018, 12:21 AM

But wrestling and grasping the rhino would be more difficult, the general roundness and the large body of the rhino would make it very hard for the bear to get its paws around it.

Well this bear would have really big limbs and paws, so it might be able to do it. And isn't the bear going to also be biting the rhino while trying to wrestle it, thus slowly injuring and weakening it?
Edited by Lightning, Mar 31 2018, 12:41 AM.
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