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Caracal v Staffordshire Bull Terrier
Topic Started: Mar 30 2012, 08:39 PM (14,632 Views)
Taipan
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Caracal - Caracal caracal
The caracal (Caracal caracal, pronounced /ˈkærəkæl/) is a fiercely territorial medium-sized cat ranging over Western Asia, South Asia and Africa. The caracal is distributed over Africa, the Middle East, Pakistan and India. Its chief habitat is dry steppes and semideserts, but it also inhabits woodlands, savannah, and scrub forest. They generally prefer open country, so long as there is sufficient cover, in the form of bushes and rocks, from which to ambush prey. The caracal is a slender, yet muscular, cat, with long legs and a short tail. Males typically weigh 13 to 18 kilograms (29 to 40 lb), while females weigh about 11 kilograms (24 lb). The caracal resembles a Eurasian Lynx, and for a long time it was considered a close relative of the lynxes. It has a tail nearly a third of its body length, and both sexes look the same. The caracal is 65 to 90 centimetres (26 to 35 in) in length, with a 30 centimetres (12 in) tail. Compared to lynxes, it has longer legs, shorter fur, and a slimmer appearance.

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Staffordshire Bull Terrier
The Staffordshire Bull Terrier (informally: Staffie, Stafford, Staffy or Staff) is a medium-sized, short-coated, old-time breed of dog. It is an English dog, where it is the 5th most popular breed, and related to the bull terrier. Having descended from dog-fighting ancestors, it is muscular and courageous. It is the subject of breed specific legislation in some jurisdictions. The Staffordshire Bull Terrier is a medium-sized, stocky, and very muscular dog with strong athletic ability, with a similar appearance to the American Staffordshire terrier and American pit bull terriers sharing the same ancestor. They have a broad head (male considerably more than female), defined occipital muscles, a relatively short foreface, dark round eyes and a wide mouth with a clean scissor-like bite (the top incisors slightly overlap the bottom incisors). The ears are small. The cheek muscles are very pronounced. Their lips show no looseness. From above, the head loosely resembles a triangle. The head tapers down to a strong well-muscled neck and shoulders placed on squarely spaced forelimbs. They are tucked up in their loins and the last 1-2 ribs of their ribcage are usually visible. Their tail resembles an old fashioned pump handle. Their hind quarters are well-muscled and are what give the Stafford drive when baiting. They are coloured brindle, black, red, fawn, blue, white, or any blending of these colors with white. White with any other colour broken up over the body is known as pied. Liver-colored, black and tan dogs can occur but are rare. The coat is smooth and clings tightly to the body giving the dog a streamlined appearance.The dogs stand 36 to 42 cm (14 to 17 in) at the withers and weigh 14 to 18 kg (31 to 40 lb) for males; bitches are 11 to 15.4 kg (24 to 34 lb).

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Lycaon
Mar 30 2012, 11:18 AM
caracal vs staffordshire bull terrier
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Vita
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FelinePowah
Feb 15 2013, 04:33 AM
K9Crocuta
Feb 15 2013, 04:27 AM
FelinePowah
Feb 15 2013, 04:15 AM
K9Crocuta
Feb 15 2013, 03:42 AM
FelinePowah
Feb 14 2013, 09:23 PM
K9Crocuta
Feb 14 2013, 08:15 AM
FelinePowah
Feb 14 2013, 07:35 AM
k9boy
Feb 14 2013, 07:23 AM
Well as formidable as this cat is, the staff is too much. Its more powerful, and has the ability to kill the cat much, much quicker then vice versa.
So when SBT fight other dogs do they kill them very very quickly?? its easy to see dog fight videos over the net and one think that doesnt happen is a very very quick fight.

If the SBT is of equal weight to the cat then how is it more powerful, where does this extra power come from?
A staff is more powerfully built than a caracal, more robust and can grapple using its teeth more effectively. I know you're aware by now that just because two animals are of similar weight, doesn't mean their strength and/or durability is the same as well.

While the caracal can grapple using its limbs, its limbs are weaker compared to this dog. The staff can resist, thus controlling the cat more so than the other way around.



Hold on, if they are both equal weight and cats carry more mucscle to body weight then dogs how is the dog more powerful, please explain to me why the dog is more powerful?? its far to easy to say it just is...... we all know that dogs have robust limb bones and it has nothing to do with strength, the cat will have the more powerful limbs.

What is the bite force for an sbt?
It's easy to say it is because it just so happens to be actual. Caracals have scored pretty low in limb strength. (As you already know.)

"Much less is known about the characters that enhance fighting ability, but strength
and agility are generally thought to be important in most types of fighting. During fighting,
an individual must generate large limb forces to accelerate its body and to manipulate an
opponent
. Additionally, the direction of force application by limbs is likely to be much more
variable during fighting than during running. Thus, stout bones with a circular cross section
that can transfer large muscle forces over a large range of motion can be expected to enhance
fighting performance. As argued above, high resistance to bone fracture is also expected to
improve fighting ability."


This could prove useful for staffs are they are basically the same as pitbull terriers

Regarding a pitbull and greyhound of similar weight:

"Similarly, the pit bull and greyhound limb bone strength study provides additional practical function of robust forelimb bones. Robust forelimb bones can withstand large forces generated by the animal's muscles and an opponent during violent struggles. In addition, more robust limbs are more resistant to bites which can break bones in fights among canids."

http://carnivoraforum.com/topic/9817141/1/?x=25#new

That thread is a good read, you should check it out.

SBT's most likely have a force similar to pitbulls.
But dogs and cats are different.... i think this was posted by someone of the forum..


"Felids show changes in muscle attachment size and leverage that are different from canids (and increase strength) which are not correspondingly reflected in bone strength-or at least by not nearly the same magnitude (not in proportion)."

Different doesn't mean that certain canids cannot be stronger than particular felids.

From the link provided:


"Small prey specialists do not meet with as much
resistance while catching prey
. However, their
prey is fast and requires speed to catch (Ewer,
1973). The cats that kill small prey have relatively
gracile limbs
that have a high brachial index (BI),
that is, they are relatively distally elongated."


"The cheetah, extant lion and American lion scored much lower than other big cats, such as cougar, snow leopard and clouded leopard. Some small cats had moderately impressive scores while others, such as the serval, Canadian lynx, and African wild cat, were near the bottom of list."

But the Caracal was classed as a mixed prey specialists..

Caracals are alot tougher then people give them credit.

This caracal defended itself against 2 much larger dogs.

the caracal from the jaws of death, in the form of two highly-motivated, chase Valley boerbuls.

Life yesterday was also cheerier for the caracal, who not only had a bite wound to its right thigh stitched up, but was treated to a little grooming. He had wondered into a private residence in chase Valley where he was met by the owners' dogs. "He is lucky that a small bite is all he came away with, after facing those dogs. We are going to be releaseing him back to the wild in a much better condition than when he arrived, without all the ticks," he said.


http://www.petwise.co.za/live/content.php?Item_ID=434
Lynx is also a "mixed" prey specialist. Did it slip your mind? Let me refresh it:

Eurasian Lynx: 6.67%
Caracal: 7.55%
Coyote: 8.05%

And that account of a caracal fending off two random dogs means nothing. A caracal facing a staff would have more severe injuries, not just a small bite. Remember the account of the two pitbull terriers and the coyote? The coyote received more than a "small bite" from two dogs. And they were just two family dogs with no prior experience with such predators. Not to mention at least that account had more details. We know nothing of the dogs involved.

You claimed that cats are better designed as fighters, yet many of the small and intermediate prey specialists lack characteristics seen in more formidable fighters. e.q. robustness, the ability to grapple with mouth (wider jaw gape), endurance, and durability. The ability to grapple with your limbs is an advantage if the animal is at least somewhat stronger than its opponent.
Edited by Vita, Feb 16 2013, 06:04 AM.
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Bull and Terrier
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Feb 14 2013, 07:21 AM
A bit ironic that you ask for reasoning seeing as your reasoning only goes as far as "it's a cat"
Well its not a bad reasoning to have as there bodies are better designed for combat then the dogs body.
Makes it a far more versatile body, yes. Better, no. There is nothing concrete or even highly indicative of cats being better fighters than dogs.
What its commen sense, if you can use your limbs and jaws in a fight then thats far better then just using jaws.

Not if you have jaws the same size as a human fetus', skittish temperament and gracile structure. Quite frankly, there are better cats for the job than the caracal.
Jaws the size of a human fetus?? most wild animals would have a skittish Temperament, most cats are graceful yet very strong, something dogs are not.

Quite frankly this SBT is getting vastly overratted and not one person can give any real reasoning as to why they think the dog is stronger then the cat apart from its limb bones are more robust!!! which in the dog is not an adaption for strength.
These dogs can get over 30kgs, it will be stronger. How big are the biggest caracals?
You live in England right? You must have some experience with a large staffy? They outmuscle dogs twice their size.
Im on about if the caracal and the sbt are of equal size.

I know that STB can get very large i have seen some huge ones and a large staff would probs beat the cat, but im talking at parity.
Like K9Crocuta said, the bite of a apbt and sbt would be about the same, this also is supported by the width of the skull of both, and the fact that they are basically the same dog if you have working lines from both. So I think we can agree that the sbt has a stronger bite, that could do much damage, while the caracal have a not as powerful bite, but are good at killing.

You can also see that large caracals can bring down and kill quite impressive prey for their size, while sbt have done huge damages too animals such as donkeys and horses, not dying at the scene, but later from the damages. The diffrence from the caracal surviving the attack from the two dogs, is that was probably not determinded dogs. A sbt would be very determinded, and would do not stop it's attack because of powerful attacks, the caracals neck also looks quite thin, and a bite from a sbt there would probably kill it fast, while the sbt's neck is very powerful and thick, which probably would make it difficult for the caracal to kill it fast.
Here you have an example of an how an sbt do damage to 110pound bull arab (wild boar dog), which a friend of the owners told me.

They accident pmsl was that a Bull Arab 110lb plus dog got hit by a annoyed stafford that proceeded to try to get as much of the BA's throat between his jaws as he could get. The owner of the BA tried separating the dogs then and put his hands where he shouldn't have but it that most likely saved his dogs life. Took them 10 minutes to get the stafford off and the BA was pretty badly worked over. There was another dog that also was also involved but it ran for it's life and hid under the house and had to be dragged out.

They don't bring their dogs onto the property anymore unless they are in cages, as the stafford has the run of the property.


It is difficult to prove, but I don't think it's any doubt that a sbt is much stronger, maybe exept for it's back legs.


http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/artikkel.php?artid=10046067

In Europe, actually a sbt from southern Norway is the strongest dog pound for pound, not a apbt.
Here is the article, it is a small bitch at only 13kg, dragging 80 times her weight as her personal record, 1180kg. Very impressive!

Three-year at 13 kg pull at least 80 times their own body weight. Now Lexi officially Europe's strongest dog.
AP follows

The animals

Staffordshire bull terrier when hardly Joakim Helleland (24) of the knees, but exceeds the owner of strength. During the European Championships in dog trekking in Finland recently Lexi officially Europe's strongest dog in his weight class, having drawn the entire 592 kilograms after themselves.

- It was fun and exciting to win against so many talented dogs, says Joakim Helleland to VG Nett.

The win was first described by Solabladet.
MAKES EVERYTHING: Three-year-old Lexi has a personal best to pull of 1180 kg. Here she is participating in dog pull-NM. PHOTO: CAMILLA R. Svanberg Borgersen

New competitive branch

Dog Trekking - as are dog sports answers to tractor pulling - was established in North America in 1984. The European League was established in 2007.

Competition is that the four-legged pulling a heavy wagon on gravel or shine from start to finish. The distance is five meters. The dogs are motivated by dog ​​owners who stand at the finish line and cheer.

- Lexi loves to draw. I just have to make sure she is well trained and motivated, says Joakim.

He does through systematic exercise, play and pulling chains.

- I learned about dog moves on. When I got Lexi she saw the gear that it was just a matter of time, he said.

PROUD: I was proud and happy when Lexi won the European Championship, says Joakim Helleland. PHOTO: PRIVATE


Lexis personal record is a load on the entire 1180 kg. It was 80 times their own body weight.

In addition to winning the European Championship in Finland, in his weight class, Lexi has the most points overall in the year among all dogs participating in Europe. So far this year she has won all the races except one, when she came in second place. So she sits on top of the list.

- Lexi does everything he

Alexander Holtan Aulisether is the main judge in Norway for the dog moves. He has seen Lexi and Joakim winning contest after contest year.

- Sukssessformelen is that Lexi does all of Joakim, and he does everything for Lexi. The collaboration is everything and it is beautiful to look at, say Aulisether.

- Lexi just do not know what stop is. She continues to give everything anyway. So she wins every time.

- Is not it cruel to dogs to need so heavily?

- No, the dogs love it. Not all dogs love to draw, so this competition is not for everyone. If we see that your dog does not like to draw, they will not participate. There shall be no coercion, and it is not allowed to use treats to lure them. Everything should be voluntary, he said.

While I think a normal sized sbt male 18-20kg, would take out a caracal with damages from claws, but not deadly. I think the caracal has a chance at parity, maybe 70/30 to the sbt in my opinion. A male caracal at 18kg would probably take most female sbt's.
Edited by Bull and Terrier, Feb 15 2013, 06:51 AM.
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Vivyx
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FelinePowah
Feb 14 2013, 06:24 AM
Scythian
Feb 14 2013, 06:04 AM
yigit05
Nov 10 2012, 08:39 PM
dog stronger bite
caracal win more muscular,weight,paws,agility
Okay now you're just faecesting me, the SBT weighs 14-18 kg, the Caracal weighs 13-18kg, and also the SBT is a much better fighter and judging by the Caracals muscle mass compared with the Coyote, much stronger.
The SBT is a dog.....so it can never be a better fighter, i mean come on have you seen dogs fight....durrrrr...

Cats have more of there body weight made up of muscle, so if both are equal then its the cat thats packing more muscle.
Is that all you can do? Just simply stating that a cat will win in a fight between a dog just because it's a cat? I have already edited my post in favour of the terrier, and as I said in my post: It's more muscular, has the better bite, has the aggression and durability advantage. I'm a cat person btw, and would want to support the caracal here, but I really cannot deny the supremacy of the terrier here.
Edited by Vivyx, Jun 11 2017, 03:26 AM.
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this is a deleted post
Edited by Vivyx, Jun 11 2017, 03:24 AM.
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