Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Carnivora. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Orca (Killer Whale) v Deinosuchus rugosus
Topic Started: May 5 2012, 11:04 PM (16,426 Views)
Taipan
Member Avatar
Administrator

Orca (Killer Whale) - Orcinus orca
he killer whale (Orcinus orca), commonly referred to as the orca whale or orca, and less commonly as the blackfish, is a toothed whale belonging to the oceanic dolphin family. Killer whales are found in all oceans, from the frigid Arctic and Antarctic regions to tropical seas. Killer whales as a species have a diverse diet, although individual populations often specialize in particular types of prey. Some feed exclusively on fish, while others hunt marine mammals such as sea lions, seals, walruses and even large whales. Killer whales are regarded as apex predators, lacking natural predators. Killer whales distinctively bear a black back, white chest and sides, and a white patch above and behind the eye. Killer whales have a heavy and robust body with a large dorsal fin up to 2 metres (6.6 ft) tall. Behind the fin, they have a dark grey "saddle patch" across the back. Antarctic killer whales may have pale grey to nearly white backs. Adult killer whales are very distinctive and are not usually confused with any other sea creature. The killer whale's teeth are very strong and covered in enamel. Its jaws are a powerful gripping apparatus, as the upper teeth fall into the gaps between the lower teeth when the mouth is closed. The front teeth are inclined slightly forward and outward, thus allowing the killer whale to withstand powerful jerking movements from its prey while the middle and back teeth hold it firmly in place. Killer whales are the largest extant members of the dolphin family. Males typically range from 6 to 8 metres (20–26 ft) long and weigh in excess of 6 tonnes (5.9 long tons; 6.6 short tons). Females are smaller, generally ranging from 5 to 7 metres (16–23 ft) and weighing about 3 to 4 tonnes (3.0 to 3.9 long tons; 3.3 to 4.4 short tons). The largest male killer whale on record was 9.8 metres (32 ft), weighing over 10 tonnes (9.8 long tons; 11 short tons), while the largest female was 8.5 metres (28 ft), weighing 7.5 tonnes (7.4 long tons; 8.3 short tons).

Posted Image

Deinosuchus rugosus
Deinosuchus is an extinct genus related to the alligator that lived 73 to 80 Ma (million years ago), during the late Cretaceous period. The name translates as "terrible crocodile" and is derived from the Greek deinos (δεινός), "terrible", and soukhos (σοῦχος), "crocodile". The first remains were discovered in North Carolina (United States) in the 1850s; the genus was named and described in 1909. Additional fragments were discovered in the 1940s and were later incorporated into an influential, though inaccurate, skull reconstruction at the American Museum of Natural History. Knowledge of Deinosuchus remains incomplete, but better cranial material found in recent years has expanded scientific understanding of this massive predator. Although Deinosuchus was far larger than any modern crocodile or alligator—measuring up to 12 m (39 ft) and weighing up to 8.5 metric tons (9.4 short tons)—in overall appearance it was fairly similar to its smaller relatives. It had large, robust teeth that were built for crushing, and its back was covered with thick hemispherical osteoderms. One study indicates that Deinosuchus may have lived for up to 50 years, growing at a rate similar to that of modern crocodilians, but maintaining this growth over a much longer period of time. Deinosuchus was probably capable of killing and eating large dinosaurs. It may have also fed upon sea turtles, fish, and other aquatic and terrestrial prey.

Posted Image

__________________________________________________________________________

DinosaurMichael
 
Orca vs Deinosuchus
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Replies:
The All-seeing Night
Member Avatar
You are without honor
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Dinopithecus
Feb 7 2014, 10:12 AM
Besides, I think weight is a much more important advantage than speed and agility. Unfortunately for Deinosuchus, it's not 8 tonnes anymore.
No its not. Weight really isn't more important, mobility is extremely important underwater. Even if the alligy is bigger I still favor thr orca because of its ability to get in repeated bites without getting caught.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ausar
Member Avatar
Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
mechafire
Feb 7 2014, 10:21 AM
Dinopithecus
Feb 7 2014, 10:12 AM
Besides, I think weight is a much more important advantage than speed and agility. Unfortunately for Deinosuchus, it's not 8 tonnes anymore.
No its not. Weight really isn't more important, mobility is extremely important underwater. Even if the alligy is bigger I still favor thr orca because of its ability to get in repeated bites without getting caught.
Size is correlated with weapon size (thus more damage), strength, durability, and reach. That sounds just as, if not more significant than mobility.
Edited by Ausar, Feb 7 2014, 10:29 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
The All-seeing Night
Member Avatar
You are without honor
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Dinopithecus
Feb 7 2014, 10:28 AM
mechafire
Feb 7 2014, 10:21 AM
Dinopithecus
Feb 7 2014, 10:12 AM
Besides, I think weight is a much more important advantage than speed and agility. Unfortunately for Deinosuchus, it's not 8 tonnes anymore.
No its not. Weight really isn't more important, mobility is extremely important underwater. Even if the alligy is bigger I still favor thr orca because of its ability to get in repeated bites without getting caught.
Size is correlated with weapon size (thus more damage), strength, durability, and reach. That sounds just as, if not more significant than mobility.
Not really, weapon size is not always decided by weight. A smaller animal can have a larger weapon than a large one. Mobility means you can get more attacks in without being attacked, you can out-maneuver your opponent.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ausar
Member Avatar
Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
mechafire
Feb 7 2014, 01:25 PM
Dinopithecus
Feb 7 2014, 10:28 AM
mechafire
Feb 7 2014, 10:21 AM
Dinopithecus
Feb 7 2014, 10:12 AM
Besides, I think weight is a much more important advantage than speed and agility. Unfortunately for Deinosuchus, it's not 8 tonnes anymore.
No its not. Weight really isn't more important, mobility is extremely important underwater. Even if the alligy is bigger I still favor thr orca because of its ability to get in repeated bites without getting caught.
Size is correlated with weapon size (thus more damage), strength, durability, and reach. That sounds just as, if not more significant than mobility.
Not really, weapon size is not always decided by weight. A smaller animal can have a larger weapon than a large one. Mobility means you can get more attacks in without being attacked, you can out-maneuver your opponent.
Alright, let me rephrase that, I think the vast majority of the time. I mean, usually, unless the smaller's weapons are ridiculously hypertrophied, the bigger one is going to look visually bigger (thus having more volume), and thus the weapons get bigger.

Example, Utahraptor is a lot bigger than P. leo atrox and the former has a lot bigger weapons.
Edited by Ausar, Feb 8 2014, 06:13 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Drift
Member Avatar
High Spined Lizard
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Well once it has any fort of grip on a section it can tear the flesh off with a death roll, The bite would be sufficient to pierce the skin let's not forget no animal today has stronger bites than these creatures.Claiming they are too sluggish is limiting them to one instance, none can be certain the outcome would always dictate (as you see it) a lethargic reptile waiting like a sitting duck at the surface of the water.This doesn't change that if it were able to grab a hold of the fins it would be taking them off, no way to control where you swim and it becomes easier to attack until finally taken out.How so would the intelligence play a part? I'm not thinking it would devise some sort of strategy to ice the alligator as a human would, many people like to use the brains of an animal when discussing "primate vs ____" threads and to no avail.One chomp to the tail fluke and it is done, or to the face.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Vobby
Member Avatar
Omnivore
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
There wouldn't be anything like single killing bite against a larger predator like the Orca. Crocodiles have very strong bites becouse they need to secure an hold on its prey in order to drown it. Against the Orca such a strategy wouldn't work, since the orca would be perfectly fine underwater for several minutes, fighting back and freeing itself, using its superior bulk (obviously the opposite is true too: the orca wouldn't be able to drown the croc like it does with the whale's calfs sometimes preyed on).
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Jinfengopteryx
Member Avatar
Aspiring paleontologist, science enthusiast and armchair speculative fiction/evolution writer
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Dinopithecus
Feb 8 2014, 06:11 AM
Alright, let me rephrase that, I think the vast majority of the time. I mean, usually, unless the smaller's weapons are ridiculously hypertrophied, the bigger one is going to look visually bigger (thus having more volume), and thus the weapons get bigger.

Example, Utahraptor is a lot bigger than P. leo atrox and the former has a lot bigger weapons.
This is of course true, but in this fight, jaws are what you would call a weapon and the crocodile has a proportionally a lot larger skull, so I won't be so sure if the orca has the advantage there.

EDIT: Of course this doesn't mean it's weapons are better, this is only about weapon size.
Edited by Jinfengopteryx, Feb 9 2014, 05:26 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
retic
Member Avatar
snake and dinosaur enthusiast
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
i favor the orca in this match up. it is larger, more agile, and it has better endurance.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ausar
Member Avatar
Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Jinfengopteryx
Feb 9 2014, 05:25 AM
Dinopithecus
Feb 8 2014, 06:11 AM
Alright, let me rephrase that, I think the vast majority of the time. I mean, usually, unless the smaller's weapons are ridiculously hypertrophied, the bigger one is going to look visually bigger (thus having more volume), and thus the weapons get bigger.

Example, Utahraptor is a lot bigger than P. leo atrox and the former has a lot bigger weapons.
This is of course true, but in this fight, jaws are what you would call a weapon and the crocodile has a proportionally a lot larger skull, so I won't be so sure if the orca has the advantage there.

EDIT: Of course this doesn't mean it's weapons are better, this is only about weapon size.
Where've you been for 6 days?

Eh even if weapon size isn't the case here, the orca should probably still be somewhat stronger and more durable, thus giving it an edge.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Vivyx
Member Avatar
Felines, sharks, birds, arthropods
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Okay, now I vote orca.




Deinosuchus rio can win, but I still think that DR (Deinosuchus rio)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Thalassophoneus
Member Avatar
Pelagic Killer
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
If the battle takes place in shallow waters where the Orca can still swim, I would give it to the Orca due to speed advantage, possible size advantage, echolocation and it probably also has an extemely high bite force, although not as much as the croc.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0118380
http://carnivoraforum.com/blog/entry/4033650/162100/
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Taipan
Member Avatar
Administrator

Mantrid
Mar 6 2016, 05:46 AM
If the battle takes place in shallow waters where the Orca can still swim, I would give it to the Orca due to speed advantage, possible size advantage, echolocation and it probably also has an extemely high bite force, although not as much as the croc.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0118380
http://carnivoraforum.com/blog/entry/4033650/162100/


Mantrid
Mar 5 2016, 07:46 PM
Purussaurus VS killer whale!


As suggested try this!

Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Thalassophoneus
Member Avatar
Pelagic Killer
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Always assuming shallow waters where both can swim and the crocodile can walk on the bottom, the killer whale would be far superior to the crocodile in terms of speed. I thought that the whale could also drown the giant croc by holding it submerged, but I just read that crocodilians can keep their breath for up to two hours so maybe the whale would have to breath before the crocodile. However in deep waters it could kill it by dragging it deep under the surface. And while I'm not sure it could bite through its dorsal osteoderms, the killer whale could rather bite the croc's belly.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ausar
Member Avatar
Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Mantrid
 
...the killer whale would be far superior to the crocodile in terms of speed.
I found the following for whatever it's worth.

p. 9
 
Killer whales can swim at speeds of up to 45 kph (28 mph), but probably only for a few seconds at a time (Williams, 2009).
link

So, as you can see, they had a source for the claim (so I guess I do have some reason to put some stock into it) and here's the specific citation just for reference.

Williams, T. M. 2009. Swimming. In: Perrin, W. F., B. Wursig and J. G. M. Thewissen. Encyclopedia of Marine Mammals, San Diego, CA: Academic Press: 1140-1147.

I'm not especially knowledgable on orcas, but this looked reliable to me. Is there any reason to suggest the alligatoroid (not crocodile btw) would be far slower than that? And even then, if this is anything to go by, the orca may not be able to sustain its maximum speed for very long.

Mantrid
 
However in deep waters it could kill it by dragging it deep under the surface.
Just askin', can't Deinosuchus do this too?
Edited by Ausar, Mar 6 2016, 10:55 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
dinoman27
Autotrophic Organism
[ *  * ]
Just a few things to consider in favor of Deinosuchus
1) A croc can hold its breath FAR longer than an orca can, up to 2 hours vs 15min. So if anything, it's the croc that's drowning the orca not the other way round.
2) Deinosuchus had a FAR more lethal Bite that the Orca. Sure The Orca had a large skull and teeth and could probably bite decently hard, it is nothing Compared to a Deinosuchus skull and a crocs adaptations in general for a ridiculously high bite. Most of the time, crocodiles choose to drown their prey rather than try and crush it to death simply because it's the easiest, most injury proof method of killing. If you see the way Crocs kill turtles and shark's it's different etc crocs straightaway go for crushing the shell of turtles and they actually try to bring the shark out of the Water to eat rather than the other way round
3) It is really well armored in comparison to the whale. Honestly speaking the whale is not that intelligent to immediately figure out a Crocs weakness just by taking a look at it. And while Deinosuchus might have had a relatively soft underbelly, the Orcas entire body is soft. Literally if Deinosuchus gets in 1 bite, the Orca is done for
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
3 users reading this topic (3 Guests and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Interspecific Conflict · Next Topic »
Add Reply