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Dhole (Asiatic Wild Dog) v Staffordshire Bull Terrier
Topic Started: May 15 2012, 09:32 PM (9,050 Views)
Taipan
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Dhole (Asiatic Wild Dog) - Cuon alpinus
The dhole (Cuon alpinus) is a species of canid native to South and Southeast Asia. It is the only extant member of the genus Cuon, which differs from Canis by the reduced number of molars and greater number of teats. The dholes are classed as endangered by the IUCN, due to ongoing habitat loss, depletion of its prey base, competition from other predators, persecution and possibly diseases from domestic and feral dogs. The dhole is a highly social animal, living in large clans which occasionally split up into small packs to hunt.[3] It primarily preys on medium-sized ungulates, which it hunts by tiring them out in long chases, and kills by disemboweling them. Unlike most social canids (but similar to African wild dogs), dholes let their pups eat first at a kill. Though fearful of humans, dhole packs are bold enough to attack large and dangerous animals such as wild boar, water buffalo, and even tigers. Prey animals in India include chital, sambar, muntjac, mouse deer, swamp deer, wild boar, gaur, water buffalo, banteng, cattle, nilgai, goats, Indian hares, Himalayan field rats and langurs. They are smaller than African wild dogs. Weight ranges from 10 to 25 kg (22 to 55 lb), with males averaging about 4.5 kg (9.9 lb) heavier. This dog is 88 to 113 cm (35 to 44 in) long from the snout to the base of the tail, with the tail averaging 45 cm (18 in) in length. Shoulder height is 42 to 55 cm (17 to 22 in).

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Staffordshire Bull Terrier
The Staffordshire Bull Terrier (informally: Staffie, Stafford, Staffy or Staff) is a medium-sized, short-coated, old-time breed of dog. It is an English dog, where it is the 5th most popular breed, and related to the bull terrier. Having descended from dog-fighting ancestors, it is muscular and courageous. It is the subject of breed specific legislation in some jurisdictions. The Staffordshire Bull Terrier is a medium-sized, stocky, and very muscular dog with strong athletic ability, with a similar appearance to the American Staffordshire terrier and American pit bull terriers sharing the same ancestor. They have a broad head (male considerably more than female), defined occipital muscles, a relatively short foreface, dark round eyes and a wide mouth with a clean scissor-like bite (the top incisors slightly overlap the bottom incisors). The ears are small. The cheek muscles are very pronounced. Their lips show no looseness. From above, the head loosely resembles a triangle. The head tapers down to a strong well-muscled neck and shoulders placed on squarely spaced forelimbs. They are tucked up in their loins and the last 1-2 ribs of their ribcage are usually visible. Their tail resembles an old fashioned pump handle. Their hind quarters are well-muscled and are what give the Stafford drive when baiting. They are coloured brindle, black, red, fawn, blue, white, or any blending of these colors with white. White with any other colour broken up over the body is known as pied. Liver-colored, black and tan dogs can occur but are rare. The coat is smooth and clings tightly to the body giving the dog a streamlined appearance.The dogs stand 36 to 42 cm (14 to 17 in) at the withers and weigh 14 to 18 kg (31 to 40 lb) for males; bitches are 11 to 15.4 kg (24 to 34 lb).

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Black Ice
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Grazier
Mar 22 2018, 08:51 AM
"Malnourished" is only one possible weakness of thousands that a moose might have which would deem it ready for harvest.

I have no problem with the kills eventually being performed by a lone wolf. I have actually always maintained single wolves can kill what wolf packs can kill, and I've argued wolves kill larger prey 1 on 1 than similar sized felines.

And without ambush. However, they are masters at choosing what to kill and when. To deny this is to actually insult the complex master of their domain that they are. They're prey analysts, not just simpleton hunters that chase things which run. They can see (and smell) things wrong with animals that we can't. And they will know the actual medical history of every single animal that calls their territory home and know all its habits. This is the most interesting thing about wolves and the best reason to admire them. Killing moose one on one is cool or whatever, but you're disrespecting wolves if you don't ho the trouble to actually understand how they truly operate.
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nutritional condition of wolf-killed moose was comparable to moose harvested by hunters.


You missed that part, or you ignored it didn't You? Hunters must go killing non trophy moose for sport huh?

Literally, just stop. Wolves are capable of killing larger healthy game by themselves in one go. The evidence has been posted; you can either admit you were wrong or live in ignorance and look dumb in front of everyone. The choice is yours.

Do you want more examples of wolves killing healthy male game animals by themselves too? Cause there's at least 20 instances in the above studies alone but I can post another if you're really that dense?

Like I'm not even purposefully being a dick at this point; I'm genuinely trying to figure out why you say the stuff you do so blindly as if you know it's fact when it clearly isn't?
Edited by Black Ice, Mar 22 2018, 09:03 AM.
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Sam1
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Again..

https://youtu.be/ruEBfgAOVNo

No dog would be capable of doing this.
The damage the "gracile" wolf withstood here and the way he just kept of going for it head on, with no regard for his life..but yeah Grazier, you keep ignoring that and keep being blown away by a dog taking down a boar of its own size.
Edited by Sam1, Mar 22 2018, 04:11 PM.
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Grazier
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Lets ignore there's a whole family type of dog adapted specifically to take on healthy fresh bovines 30 times their own weight head on and take whatever punishment the bovine can dish out, and how that's the entire sole purpose of those dogs and every hair on their body is geared to excel at that and that alone, as dictated by thousands of generations of evolution where the standards of acceptable excellence are set far beyond what would be expected of any wild predator to merely survive by any means necessary, lets just say no dog would be capable of doing that because derp.

Nothing in that video conflicted with what I said about wolves working on individuals for months and eventually harvesting duds when they are good and ready. It's still cool, but the fact is the bulls that dogs frequently were expected to tackle head on would, at worst, get their urine smelled by a wolf, and then left alone, and that's a fact. Prime perfectly fit specimens of any species are invulnerable to predation from wild predators, that's how their species survives.

There are levels to this stuff which are completely ignored when a shiney video or vague barely relevant scientific article pops up.
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Sam1
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Let me rephrase - the dog would be killed. Now if you can find me an account of a dog single handedly killing something of that magnitude, then I'll stand corrected.
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Grazier
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The wolf would be killed tackling a fresh bull, at best you can say the bison would not have been killed, but bulldogs are way way way better at not dieing going toe to toe with big bovines. You can believe whatever you like.
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Sam1
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wait a second, so you are saying the bison would not be killed and the dog would give up? Or that this dog of yours would be too small to do any real damage..hence invalidating your whole point. You can't compare small bull dogs to this.
Anyway, you failed to show me a similar thing done by a single dog, so you acknowledge that a single wolf can take down tougher and bigger animal than any dog can.
Something tells me that 75kg wolfhound of yours would be dead in ten minutes.
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Grazier
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Dingoes have done what that wolf did (to Asiatic water buffalo). Like I said there are levels to performance, wolves and dingoes are dogsh!t at tackling large bovines. Given enough time to mess around they can eventually kill them, but when compared to big game specialised dogs, whether a bulldog OR the 75 kgs wolfhound cross, their performance is amateurish and poor.
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Sam1
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Grazier
Mar 22 2018, 08:43 PM
Dingoes have done what that wolf did (to Asiatic water buffalo). Like I said there are levels to performance, wolves and dingoes are dogsh!t at tackling large bovines. Given enough time to mess around they can eventually kill them, but when compared to big game specialised dogs, whether a bulldog OR the 75 kgs wolfhound cross, their performance is amateurish and poor.
I see, some more rambling is all that you have. Put up with some real account or shut up.
Anyway, I'm done hijacking the thread.
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Black Ice
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Sam1
Mar 22 2018, 09:43 PM
Grazier
Mar 22 2018, 08:43 PM
Dingoes have done what that wolf did (to Asiatic water buffalo). Like I said there are levels to performance, wolves and dingoes are dogsh!t at tackling large bovines. Given enough time to mess around they can eventually kill them, but when compared to big game specialised dogs, whether a bulldog OR the 75 kgs wolfhound cross, their performance is amateurish and poor.
I see, some more rambling is all that you have. Put up with some real account or shut up.
Anyway, I'm done hijacking the thread.
I agree with this. Not gonna entertain stupidity in two threads simultaneously. At that point it's not even fun it's just a chore.
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Vita
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Grazier
Mar 22 2018, 08:43 PM
Dingoes have done what that wolf did (to Asiatic water buffalo). Like I said there are levels to performance, wolves and dingoes are dogsh!t at tackling large bovines. Given enough time to mess around they can eventually kill them, but when compared to big game specialised dogs, whether a bulldog OR the 75 kgs wolfhound cross, their performance is amateurish and poor.
It's not a bovine, but what do you think of this amateur and poor performance?

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Edited by Vita, Mar 23 2018, 04:31 AM.
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Grazier
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Well that's an unusual situation. It might even happen with a fox that gets grabbed on the leg (it does, you hear about it). Usually, like nearly every time, a pitbull would (and does) ragdoll a coyote to death almost instantly and very efficiently. I'm not saying what you describe CAN'T happen, just that it more likely won't.

vita
Quote:
 
It's not a bovine, but what do you think of this amateur and poor performance?

It's a good performance, almost dog-like.

Cervids die easily. The moose is a possible exception, but even red deer and elk die pretty easily. Until 2004 (the year of the ban) there were uk deer-dogging forums just like there are still aussie pig dogging forums. Collie cross whippets (among others) were on there killing deer almost instantly one on one every day. Maybe for larger stags you'd want a deerhound x grey or bully x grey, but generally there's no comparison between cervids and bovids or suids.

I expect wolves to be able to just insta-kill deer just as a deerhound or even greyhound would, but for moose and up it's a big process that can not be fully appreciated in a short video clip. You need a "big cat diary" type following a wolf pack for months to really see what goes into killing a prey animal. Or you could watch bbc's wolf battlefield to understand. You're seeing the end of a long project and thinking that was the beginning.
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Taipan
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Grazier
Mar 23 2018, 08:04 AM

Quote:
 
It's not a bovine, but what do you think of this amateur and poor performance?

It's a good performance, almost dog-like.


Let see you back something up Grazier. A single dog killing a bovine please. No human involvement. Your ability to do so, could determine your posting rights in the future.

Single wolves have done it: The Killing of a Bull Muskox by a Single Wolf



Edited by Taipan, Mar 24 2018, 10:39 PM.
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Mauro20
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Not Grazier here, but since he's probably not even going to make an effort, I tried looking for accounts of dogs killing bovines. None of the ones I found were performed by a single dog. This one is the closest to it I found:
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Dogs attack and kill ‘full-grown, pregnant mama cow with a calf at her side’

A local man is still looking for answers after two dogs attacked and killed a “pregnant mama cow with a calf at her side” Monday.

Alexander City Police responded to North Central Avenue after John Ballard reported that two full-grown Rottweilers attacked the cow that was in a pasture on his farm.

“It was horrible,” Ballard said. “I’ve seen dogs get after a calf, but not a full-grown, pregnant mama cow with a calf at her side. They got her by the ears and took her down and broke down by her hind legs. Once they did that it was over.”

Ballard said that one of the men who works with him fired at the dogs, hitting one. But as of Tuesday evening both dogs were still alive.

To show how vicious the attack was, Ballard said the cow weighed 1,200 pounds. The animal received multiple injuries and Ballard said both ears had been ripped off by the dogs.

“We know which dogs they were and who the owners are,” Ballard said. “We are supposed to meet with them tonight and see what we can work out.

“It’s just a tough thing to see and the bad thing is we have kids who ride four-wheelers out there. If they break down they have to walk back. If that had been a kid, there is no telling what could have happened.”

Since the incident was in the police jurisdiction and outside the city limits, animal control does not have the authority to pick up the dogs.

“We had people out there and the owners saw the dogs and shot one of them,” Alexander City Police Chief Jay Turner said. “There are no charges at this time. We’ve talked with the owner of the cow and the owners of the dogs and they are going to negotiate to see what can be worked out.

“The thought of a full-grown cow being killed by dogs, even large dogs is unbelievable. But when they get in a pack in that hunting mode, I’m told that even the most docile dog can do things like this.”

Turner and Ballard both pointed out that there is no dog ordinance in place in the county.

That means that while dog owners are liable for damage, they are not under any obligation to keep their dogs off the property of others. Animals that have been implicated in these kinds of incidents can’t be seized by city animal control officers.

“I find it hard to believe that when something like this happens, there is no recourse to make sure the dogs can never do this kind of thing again,” Ballard said. “I hope this prompts someone to take some action to put an ordinance in place to protect people from this kind of thing.”

Tallapoosa County Commissioner T.C. Coley who represents that area said that they have struggled with situations like this in the past because while the Alexander City Police Department can enforce state laws, city ordinances like the dog ordinance are a different story.

“This isn’t the first time we’ve had a situation like this and it’s an unfortunate thing,” Coley said. “We are open to finding a solution that works. The issue is the cost of enforcing a countywide dog ordinance would be almost impossible. But if there is a way that we could find a way to enforce that law in the city’s police jurisdiction even though it is outside of the city limits would be an answer."
Source: http://www.alexcityoutlook.com/2017/03/21/dogs-attack-and-kill-full-grown-pregnant-mama-cow-with-a-calf-at-her-side/
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Ryo
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A shame there is no picture of the Cow so we could see what breed it was and if it had horns. How far it was into the pregnancy would also be useful.
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K9 Bite
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At similar weights, the staffie's chances of winning are better than the dhole's imo. The dog is a good gripper and one good bite on the Dhole is all it needs to help push the wild canid to the ground. I've personally had a incident where these dogs attacked my German Shepherd while out on a walk. They are small but very compact for their size, with their heads and necks short, hard and compact. The Dhole probaly has the better dentation and agilty on it's side, but I see the staffie winning this more often than not.

https://youtu.be/Hii8YA83n2A
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