Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Carnivora. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Dhole (Asiatic Wild Dog) v Staffordshire Bull Terrier
Topic Started: May 15 2012, 09:32 PM (9,048 Views)
Taipan
Member Avatar
Administrator

Dhole (Asiatic Wild Dog) - Cuon alpinus
The dhole (Cuon alpinus) is a species of canid native to South and Southeast Asia. It is the only extant member of the genus Cuon, which differs from Canis by the reduced number of molars and greater number of teats. The dholes are classed as endangered by the IUCN, due to ongoing habitat loss, depletion of its prey base, competition from other predators, persecution and possibly diseases from domestic and feral dogs. The dhole is a highly social animal, living in large clans which occasionally split up into small packs to hunt.[3] It primarily preys on medium-sized ungulates, which it hunts by tiring them out in long chases, and kills by disemboweling them. Unlike most social canids (but similar to African wild dogs), dholes let their pups eat first at a kill. Though fearful of humans, dhole packs are bold enough to attack large and dangerous animals such as wild boar, water buffalo, and even tigers. Prey animals in India include chital, sambar, muntjac, mouse deer, swamp deer, wild boar, gaur, water buffalo, banteng, cattle, nilgai, goats, Indian hares, Himalayan field rats and langurs. They are smaller than African wild dogs. Weight ranges from 10 to 25 kg (22 to 55 lb), with males averaging about 4.5 kg (9.9 lb) heavier. This dog is 88 to 113 cm (35 to 44 in) long from the snout to the base of the tail, with the tail averaging 45 cm (18 in) in length. Shoulder height is 42 to 55 cm (17 to 22 in).

Posted Image

Staffordshire Bull Terrier
The Staffordshire Bull Terrier (informally: Staffie, Stafford, Staffy or Staff) is a medium-sized, short-coated, old-time breed of dog. It is an English dog, where it is the 5th most popular breed, and related to the bull terrier. Having descended from dog-fighting ancestors, it is muscular and courageous. It is the subject of breed specific legislation in some jurisdictions. The Staffordshire Bull Terrier is a medium-sized, stocky, and very muscular dog with strong athletic ability, with a similar appearance to the American Staffordshire terrier and American pit bull terriers sharing the same ancestor. They have a broad head (male considerably more than female), defined occipital muscles, a relatively short foreface, dark round eyes and a wide mouth with a clean scissor-like bite (the top incisors slightly overlap the bottom incisors). The ears are small. The cheek muscles are very pronounced. Their lips show no looseness. From above, the head loosely resembles a triangle. The head tapers down to a strong well-muscled neck and shoulders placed on squarely spaced forelimbs. They are tucked up in their loins and the last 1-2 ribs of their ribcage are usually visible. Their tail resembles an old fashioned pump handle. Their hind quarters are well-muscled and are what give the Stafford drive when baiting. They are coloured brindle, black, red, fawn, blue, white, or any blending of these colors with white. White with any other colour broken up over the body is known as pied. Liver-colored, black and tan dogs can occur but are rare. The coat is smooth and clings tightly to the body giving the dog a streamlined appearance.The dogs stand 36 to 42 cm (14 to 17 in) at the withers and weigh 14 to 18 kg (31 to 40 lb) for males; bitches are 11 to 15.4 kg (24 to 34 lb).

Posted Image

Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Replies:
Taipan
Member Avatar
Administrator

Taipan
Mar 24 2018, 10:34 PM
Grazier
Mar 23 2018, 08:04 AM

Quote:
 
It's not a bovine, but what do you think of this amateur and poor performance?

It's a good performance, almost dog-like.


Let see you back something up Grazier. A single dog killing a bovine please. No human involvement. Your ability to do so, could determine your posting rights in the future.

Single wolves have done it: The Killing of a Bull Muskox by a Single Wolf



Come on Grazier, lets actually see you actually back something up - you've been made to look like a total incompetent fool by Vita and Black Ice!

A single dog killing a bovine please. No human involvement.
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Black Ice
Member Avatar
Drom King
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
He can't find one so he just ghosts away from the thread.
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Vita
Member Avatar
Cave Canem
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Grazier
Mar 23 2018, 08:04 AM

It's a good performance, almost dog-like.

Posted Image

This is high quality trolling.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Sam1
Herbivore
[ *  *  *  * ]
..if there was such an account, Grazier would have posted it by now..he's been ducking the question since I first asked him to post it.
Edited by Sam1, Mar 27 2018, 11:53 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Grazier
Omnivore
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Its a meaningless dumb demand. I have people on other forums (banned from this forum) giving me articles to post and I'm not interested. I need time to break down why you're all morons. Friday being a public holiday will be a great time for that. In the meantime, post an account of a lone wolf killing a domestic bull, or even a cow. On Friday I'll explain why you couldn't and why its extremely significant.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Black Ice
Member Avatar
Drom King
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Grazier
Mar 28 2018, 05:06 AM
Its a meaningless dumb demand. I have people on other forums (banned from this forum) giving me articles to post and I'm not interested. I need time to break down why you're all morons. Friday being a public holiday will be a great time for that. In the meantime, post an account of a lone wolf killing a domestic bull, or even a cow. On Friday I'll explain why you couldn't and why its extremely significant.
News Alert - Grazier doesn't know what he's talking about.

Then again was that really news?
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ryo
Omnivore
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Well, most domestic cows are inferior on nearly every single level there is to be inferior in. A dog killing even a Yak wouldn't be bad, or a Highland Cattle for matter.
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Thergi
Member Avatar
Autotrophic Organism
[ *  * ]
This is getting pathetic.
Failing to back up barely any of his points while speaking as if we all should believe him.
To be fair, you have to have a very IQ to understand domestic dogs.
The meaning in Grazier’s existential catchphrase, “You’re all morons”, which is in itself a cryptic reference references to “Becoming Desperate” and other classic feelsbadman literature.
;)
Edited by Thergi, Mar 28 2018, 06:08 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Grazier
Omnivore
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
I've got a moment to explain something to you guys, wolves and dingoes have killed large wild bovines because its actually an enormously drawn out process. If they could just see one and go kill it in even 30 minutes then sure we should expect dogs to have done the same, but when does a dog ever have several months to dedicate to working on a bovine? I bring up domestic cattle because wolves should have killed domestic cattle one on one in emphatic displays if they are capable of such a thing, they haven't because they aren't. Cattle might have a bit of a wolf bite on their rump and the grazier will see it and get mad and kill all the wolves. That wolf was beginning its weakening over several months routine. Several months later it might have killed the cow, maybe even one on one, but it had no chance of doing that on a fresh cow and because it was a domestic cow it had no chance of working its long game undisturbed.
Domestic dogs need to go home at the end of the day, if they ever did kill a wild bovine no one would notice or give a sh!t, but they aren't going to get many opportunities. Likewise on domestic cattle for the same reason wolves won't.

[Maybe in a post apocalyptic world, like say after hurricane Katrina, we'd see something. Something like this
Quote:
 
like a wrestling tag team, the bitch and the dog attacked with awesome ferocity, leaping at the bull's head and latching on to its muzzle. The stricken bull repeatedly shook the dogs off, flinging them up to 15 feet in the air. But they took turns to keep up the attack, exhausting the bull which was by now smeared with blood. Even after the bull trampled the bitch, leaving it dazed, the dog stepped up its attack... It was too dangerous for an unarmed witness to intervene but The Sunday Telegraph flagged down a National Guard truck. Seeing what was happening, a soldier shot the bitch in the head. The dog paused before resuming the attack. It took two bullets to stop it dead.

Posted Image
http://hoaxes.org/weblog/comments/what_happens_when_dogs_attack_a_bull
Frankly what these 2 dogs did here is more impressive than any of the feats of the wolf. First that's a charolais bull weighing well over 2000 lbs (600lbs musk ox? lol, that's an antelope with a helmet), also they had it exhausted and ready to succumb within one single attack that probably took 30 minutes maximum. Now imagine if they had all the time in the world with no national guard to come to the bull's rescue?

In truth there is zero comparison between a bullbreeds ability to deal with a large bovine and a wolf's, no comparison at all. Wolves wouldn't go near this bull, at all, and when it got old and weak they'd start a process to weaken it further that would take months. There are never going to be opportunities for domestic dogs to show what they can do with months to work on large bovines.
Edited by Grazier, Mar 28 2018, 06:42 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Vita
Member Avatar
Cave Canem
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Taipan
Mar 26 2018, 03:32 PM
Taipan
Mar 24 2018, 10:34 PM
Grazier
Mar 23 2018, 08:04 AM


Quoting limited to 3 levels deep


Let see you back something up Grazier. A single dog killing a bovine please. No human involvement. Your ability to do so, could determine your posting rights in the future.

Single wolves have done it: The Killing of a Bull Muskox by a Single Wolf



Come on Grazier, lets actually see you actually back something up - you've been made to look like a total incompetent fool by Vita and Black Ice!

A single dog killing a bovine please. No human involvement.
How many months did it take that wolf to kill this bovine?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Sam1
Herbivore
[ *  *  *  * ]
..damn those 2 apbt and bull were on the old carnivora. And it's an absolutely meaningless comparison with that Wolf and bison battle.
Btw seems like some wolves didn't got all the "analyse for months/don't go anywhere near it" memo and killed a "vigorous and healthy" bull just for sport.

http://www.capitalpress.com/Opinion/Letters/20170913/wolves-needlessly-kill-bull
Edited by Sam1, Mar 28 2018, 08:39 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Grazier
Omnivore
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Harassed to death, cool. One must intentionally plug their ears and strap on their blinders to ignore the nuances involved in these different cases and maintain that wolves perform better on bulls than bulldogs.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Sam1
Herbivore
[ *  *  *  * ]
Well that's actually an ironic comment..because you fail to see the nuances of wolves ignoring everything from your rule book in that case.
It should never happen. Them just going out there and not just getting near a dangerous and healthy young bull, but risk their well being just to harass it. Something doesn t add up.
Edited by Sam1, Mar 28 2018, 09:07 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Grazier
Omnivore
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
I'll give credit where its due, unlike the clean sweep domination of the Mackenzie valley wolf vs kangal thread, you got me here. I said you won't find wolves killing a domestic bull and you did. I said they will leave such an animal alone and they didn't.

Nicely done. I lose that skirmish.

Bulldogs are still way way better with bovines than wolves though. Its still not close. I can make mistakes in my debating style, but my position is still correct.
I'm not a good debater, I'm just usually right and it creates the illusion of debate mastery.

The thing is bulls actually ARE left alone for months, its relatively difficult for a wolf pack to work on a domestic bull undisturbed for a long period of time compared to a wild bovine, but its still entirely possible. Especially if, like in a case like this, the injuries aren't even visible to the naked eye.

Obviously I don't know if the wolves worked on the bull for months, and maybe its an exaggeration to say that's required in all their feats of predation, but clearly the bull was hounded extensively before death by multiple wolves and died seemingly from sheer exhaustion, which the two pitbulls were on course to achieve with much less harassment and a much more emphatic impressive performance (before they were executed).

BTW I didn't post that to say "here is my account", that would be bending to appease morons which i refuse to do.

I don't need a dumb case of a dead cow and such things aren't relevant to my argument. The reason that case is relevant is to show that with a breakdown of law and order we quickly got a taste of what bullbreeds can do, to show why they ARENT doing it left right and centre appeasing your idiotic account quotas.

If left to their own devices they will do it and better than wolves.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Sam1
Herbivore
[ *  *  *  * ]
Well, good to see some humbleness from you.
But I would rather not comment on your "debating" beliefs..because I myself don't even take this as debating, and am not trying to go into it more than merely pointing out some issues and fallacies that stick out too much in the way of truth. That bull account took like 30 seconds to find.

Now if you want to know what I think about your general statements, well yeah they are correct. I don't question that wolves are extremely calculated, and I fully understand why.
And it's definitely not because of their lack of capability to perform.
Also, I kept saying that smaller dogs bred to handle bulls are irrelevant comparison in that regard.
You're taking a relative thing - comparatively small, agile and athletic dogs - as an argument in absolute terms.
And in absolute terms, the wolf is capable of taking down much bigger animals. That's the point.

p.s.
As for that bull, it doesn't sound like wolves worked on it for months, as the story says there was 10 more confirmed livestock kills in the area.

btw this is a good read

http://www.beefmagazine.com/pasture-range/wolves-economic-bite-cattle-goes-way-beyond-predation
Edited by Sam1, Mar 28 2018, 07:29 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
« Previous Topic · Interspecific Conflict · Next Topic »
Add Reply