| Welcome to Carnivora. We hope you enjoy your visit. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| Biggest Leopard Sub-species? | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: May 17 2012, 08:41 PM (41,455 Views) | |
| Kurtz | Jun 25 2012, 07:41 AM Post #61 |
|
Kleptoparasite
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
![]() From Kenya |
![]() |
|
| Canidae | Jun 26 2012, 12:58 AM Post #62 |
|
Omnivore
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Reading Chui's info that's very interesting that Kruger males are large but not the largest. I suppose Camp Pan and a lot of the Londolozi crew could be anomalies then? |
![]() |
|
| ManEater | Jun 26 2012, 03:03 AM Post #63 |
|
Omnivore
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I prefer the word : exception , they are indeed well above the average of the leopards of this place . And i believe too , they are not the best representation of the leopard's specie . African equatorial leopard/Iran leopard look far more formidable and impressive. |
![]() |
|
| chui | Jun 26 2012, 03:36 AM Post #64 |
|
Heterotrophic Organism
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Why is this so surprising? Leopards in Kruger don't hunt larger or more impressive prey than leopards in most other regions. And though Kruger is a healthy prey rich environment so are many other well protected or pristine areas where leopards live. Lastly, with a dense lion population Kruger certainly doesn't provide leopards with a position at the top of the food chain as is the case in some other regions.
I don't see why they would be anomalies as the males which preceded them were similarly impressive. Not being the very biggest doesn't mean that these leopards would have to be unimpressive. The point is equally impressive leopards are found in many other parts of the world and even more impressive leopards are likely found in certain regions. |
![]() |
|
| chui | Sep 25 2012, 02:08 AM Post #65 |
|
Heterotrophic Organism
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
One variety of leopard that rarely gets mentioned is the Barbary leopard of the Atlas mountains in North Africa. This is really too bad because there may still be a very tiny population of these leopards remaining in Morocco which could still be saved, or at least it could have been in the past few decades. It may also interest the leopard enthusiasts on this site to know that these leopards were invariably described as being very large in early 20th century literature. Even Pocock seems to have accepted the Barbary leopard as the "largest race" along with those from the Congo Basin region. The taxonomic classification of this leopard seems a bit uncertain, Mithanpala's molecular study concluded it belonged to the African subspecies but she had based this on a very limited sample. Also, most North African animals including Barbary lions are believed to have been contiguous with West Asian populations until fairly recently so I don't see why this wouldn't be the case for the leopard as well. The Barbary leopard certainly seems similar to the Persian leopard morphologically, both appear to have a light coloured, thick coat, and a stocky build. Though this shouldn't be surprising given the similar environment and prey species. I haven't been able to find much info on actual measurements for these leopards, I'd especially be interested in skull measurements. This could be because most of North Africa was under French colonial rule and most literature on this leopard is probably in French. Though it seems unlike the British the other European powers took little interest in the wildlife of the regions they ruled so there may not be much info available any way. According to the "Mammals of Algeria", a leopard killed in that country in the early 20th century weighed over 80kg. Another leopard in one of the photographs below seems to be described as 70kg in the caption (in French). There do seem to be a few photographs of leopards shot in Morocco and Algeria. Here are some which probably show big males. The leopard pictured in the first 3 photographs appears to be very large IMO. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
|
| Kurtz | Sep 25 2012, 02:12 AM Post #66 |
|
Kleptoparasite
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Fantastic males, same beasts romans saw in Coloseum |
![]() |
|
| ImperialDino | Sep 26 2012, 12:56 PM Post #67 |
|
Omnivore
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
People always exaggerate the size of endangered species just like the barbary Lion which wasn't any different from the African Lion other then it had more mane fur which to an ignorant person would make it APPEAR to be bigger then any other lion. The Barbary Leopard or North African Leopard has been described originally as a separate subspecies (Panthera pardus panthera) of the leopard. It is native to the Atlas Mountains of North Africa. However, according to recent genetic data, the subspecies status is probably not valid, because there are no significant genetic differences to other African leopards, which are supposed to represent one single subspecies, the African leopard (Panthera pardus pardus).[1] The leopard is very rare in northern Africa. Only small populations persist in the Atlas Mountains of Morocco and Algeria and a few may remain also in Egypt.[2] This subspecies has a very thick coat of fur, as compared to other leopards, that suits its cold mountain habitat. It preys on Barbary macaques, gazelles and some small animals |
![]() |
|
| BadRonald | Oct 25 2012, 02:46 AM Post #68 |
|
Unicellular Organism
![]() ![]() ![]()
|
So why are Central African Leopards/Congo Leopards so large with such large heads if dense forest supposedly reduces overall size ? |
![]() |
|
| ManEater | Oct 25 2012, 03:06 AM Post #69 |
|
Omnivore
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
There is not "one" population of forest leopards, many disparities. There are small forest leopards like there are bigs populations. Many factors can play.(competitors, prey abundance and size of them, climate etc) Area where leopards are apex predators are usually bigs, and leopards from african equatorial forest are kings.(no hyenas, wild dogs or lions) |
![]() |
|
| chui | Oct 25 2012, 05:39 AM Post #70 |
|
Heterotrophic Organism
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Generally speaking predators tend to be smaller in dense forests because prey densities tend to be lower compared to more open habitats. But this doesn’t seem to apply to African leopards because the density of leopards (which is pretty much proportional to prey density) in pristine rainforest areas is equally high to those recorded in well protected savanna regions. Furthermore in the case of leopards which are sympatric with other large carnivores other factors which influence size must also be considered. Firstly, the leopard is the dominant predator of the African equatorial forests unlike in the savanna where it is of course sympatric with the much larger lion. In the absence of a more dominant competitor the subordinate species will tend to exhibit an increase in size (this is known as character release). In the savanna the leopard’s size is constrained by its need to be much smaller than the lion in order to reduce competition over prey and also to be able to evade the larger cat by climbing further up into trees etc. In the forest the leopard is free to hunt larger animals and also does not need to stay lightweight to climb high into trees. The diet of leopards in Gabon (western Congo Basin) has been extensively studied by Dr. Philip Henschel who has found that in pristine areas the preferred prey is duikers and red river hogs. With females probably taking duikers and adult males tackling the much larger hogs. On the other hand, in Kruger by far the most preferred prey of both male and female leopards is the nimble impala which is larger than duikers but much less impressive than red river hogs. And though warthogs are an important prey source for male leopards in Kruger they are taken far less frequently than red river hogs in Gabon. I would add that bush meat hunting which is widespread throughout the Congo Basin has been very detrimental to leopard prey populations in the region. Bush meat hunters tend to target the leopard’s preferred prey (duikers and hogs) and as a result leopards in hunted areas resort to much smaller animals. So in unprotected disturbed areas I wouldn’t be surprised if leopards aren’t particularly large but in the core of well protected national parks where the prey base is intact male forest leopards should be very impressive. This presentation nicely summarizes the findings of research in Gabon ( http://www.largecarnivoresafrica.com/wp-content/uploads/philiph-henschel2.pdf ). Prey and leopard populations are directly proportional to distance from human settlements with healthy leopard populations only persisting in the core of national parks. Note that in the Congo Basin people are largely dependent on bush meat for protein and generally don’t keep domestic animals for meat. So while in other parts of the world the loss of natural prey may be compensated somewhat by the presence of domestic animals as potential prey this doesn’t really apply to the Congo Basin. Edited by chui, Oct 25 2012, 05:46 AM.
|
![]() |
|
| cidermaster | Oct 25 2012, 09:46 AM Post #71 |
|
Omnivore
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
The Scottish leopard is huge,but you only see them when you are drunk! |
![]() |
|
| FireCrown | Oct 25 2012, 09:54 AM Post #72 |
|
Felines,Ursids,and Canid
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
These ones are huge wow |
![]() |
|
| BadRonald | Oct 25 2012, 10:50 PM Post #73 |
|
Unicellular Organism
![]() ![]() ![]()
|
WOW thanks for the excellent answer really informative. It seems that when a Predators main prey is Boar or some kind of Wild Hog it produces impressive body/skull size. |
![]() |
|
| pars | Nov 4 2012, 01:24 AM Post #74 |
|
Autotrophic Organism
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
For leopards' size the predation on boar seems to be one of the determinant factors. Boar predation is more frequent in Persian, Central African and Barbary leopards. Maybe in some parts of India where leopards are bigger this is the case. By the way Indian leopard with a weight of 108 kg. is documented, he is still captive and it is the same animal with the one having a weight of 139 kg in captivity. He is called Balaji... Chiu, another important prey species for Central African leopard is forest buffalo. Here is a resarch for the Gabonese leopards: "The most important single prey species was found to be red river hog Potamochoerus porcus (Linnaeus), making up 20% of the biomass consumed, followed by forest buffalo Syncerus caffer nanus (Boddaert) and cane rat Thryonomys swinderianus (Temminck), each comprising 13% of biomass consumed. Bushbuck % 8.6, putty nosed guenon % 8.1 and forest buffalo with % 7.1 frequency of occurence." As you know in Pantanal and Chaco where the jaguars are the largest of their species, they mostly prey on cattle. So maybe cattle predation is another important type of predation besides suids, to determine the size of the carnivore... Edited by pars, Nov 4 2012, 01:25 AM.
|
![]() |
|
| maker | Oct 30 2014, 04:30 PM Post #75 |
|
Apex Predator
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
So the jaguars there were smaller before the cattle was brought there? |
![]() |
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · Zoological Debate & Discussion · Next Topic » |





![]](http://b2.ifrm.com/28122/87/0/p701956/pipright.png)

























9:53 AM Jul 11