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Consequences of domestication; where diseases come from
Topic Started: May 25 2012, 02:19 AM (2,329 Views)
Grazier
Omnivore
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Domestication doesn't inherently cause problems. It doesn't do anything, it typically often is accompanied by a reduction in selective pressures, and this absence causes problems. However, with many kinds of domestic animals that serve a functional purpose and are still subject to harsh selective pressures there are no associated issues. As ryo says it can be the opposite if the selection is more harsh and strict than natural selection for wild animals, which is the case for some domestic animals. For many domestic animals though there is a relaxation on selective pressures and so many people associate domestication with weakness and also the health issues that are prevalent in such domestic animals.

As an example (one I'm particularly familiar with) boardogs in australia frequently die from being killed by boars, from heat stroke, from snake bite, eaten by crocs, killed by water buffalo, killed by their human owners for not living up to their high standard (could be barking too much, or looking at them funny, more likely being bad at hunting), etc etc. You can't say these dogs have relaxed selective pressures, they have extremely harsh selective pressures and they're perfectly healthy with none of the issues commonly associated with domestication.
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Satya
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Ryo
Feb 16 2018, 12:30 PM
How can a slave(pet) become family? stupidity.Pet trading is nothing but sugar coated sadism...

So, Wild Animals are live barbaric life, slave trade and killing is humane thing(Euthanasia or mercy killing). lol

Define slave. They live about a similar life as a kid would. It doesn't suffer, in fact, it lives a much better life than any Wolf, Fox or Coyte, as well as any Tiger ever will. It has anything its natural instincts seeks. Survival, food, shelter, somewhat a positive life style and a loving family it can interract with. You see it as a slave, but when you think about it, many dogs and cats have humans as slaves, not virce verca. Millions of dogs provide no actual working abilities in the house. They don't have to guard, hunt, search for injured, nothing. All they get is a warm bed to sleep on and food handed to them for doing nothing, and humans "waste" their income on this. This is not what a slave is. We don't waste money on "slaves" sleeping all day doing next to nothing and we don't waste time trying to make them healthy through exercise and play.

Humans and dogs have what I'd nearly call a Symbiotic Relationship which is normal in nature. "I will scratch your back if you scratch mine". The dogs get something in return for giving humans what they give them. Sometimes, the dogs give nothing more than social interractions and we still waste massive amounts of money, time, space and resources which only increase over the next 8-16 years. Imagine that, a Canine that lives nearly like a king for 8-16 years for doing nothing, except making the owners happy.

But I assume you don't know what slavery actually is. This should be able to cut it out even for you. https://study.com/academy/lesson/symbiotic-relationship-definition-examples-quiz.html

"Pet trading is nothing but sugar coated sadism..."
Can't be if they live much better than their original wild counterparts and if they don't suffer.

"So, Wild Animals are live barbaric life,"
Well, yes they are and do. Depending on how you look at it. Have you ever heard the quote "DAYUM NATURE YOU'RE SCARY!" ?

"slave trade and killing is humane thing"
Yes, because they don't suffer, unlike Wolf puppies that risks becoming snacks to others, same with Tiger cups who risks being eaten alive or shredded by Dholes, Snakes, Leopards and other Tigers. Perhaps Bears as well.
And unlike a slow painful death where they have become old, sick, gotten infections, are infested with parasites, injured, possibly blind and can no longer hunt and thus have to starve to death, we put our dogs humanely down in a calm relaxing sleep so they won't have to suffer.

Read about this place and especially look in the "natueral process" part https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oostvaardersplassen
These are wild Cattle, Deer and Horses that starved slowly to death. Massive amounts of people called it animal cruelty and demanded the weak and sick individuals to be put down quick by bullets so they wouldn't suffer so horribly. Would you have prefered they did not have done this? Since that would be somewhat more barbaric, with the only defending factor being "its nature".
Don't want to explain thess rudimentary points ...

but u miss one thing Tiger,Dog and Cat's hunting is nature. Of-course without herbivorous there is no carnivorous but carnivorous are the MAIN PROTECTORS of the forest (by hunting/killing). Killing is not scary but 'beauty' of the nature because they designed to do that only.

Dog/cat or any pet hardly have intelligence of 2 YR OLD KID they cannot express their feelings that doesn't mean they like SLAVERY. How can a 2yr old can know anything except some guy through biscuits to him if he act int this way!! .... SLAVERY.
Edited by Satya, Feb 16 2018, 10:34 PM.
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Claudiu Constantin Nicolaescu
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It is very good for both the pets and the pet owners. If you do not like pets, you should care for other things. It is very simple.
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Ryo
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You don't want to explain because you can't.

I assume it is also slavery that Ants keep Aphids as cattle then.

" but carnivorous are the MAIN PROTECTORS of the forest (by hunting/killing)."
Yes. And?

"Killing is not scary but 'beauty' of the nature because they designed to do that only."
It is still brutal. suffering, painful, horrible, nasty and what not. I don't care much for it, but you still get pregnant Zebras and Wildebeest getting eaten alive by Hyenas, getting their unborn infant ripped out.

"Dog/cat or any pet hardly have intelligence of 2 YR OLD KID"
I have seen claims of dogs having the intelligence of a 12 year old kid, but ofc I don't believe that. This is also completely irrelevant to my point, good job.

" they cannot express their feelings that doesn't mean they like SLAVERY."
Because they do not have the intelligence to do so. I assume you didn't read my comment. We are more slaves to them than they are to us very often.

"How can a 2yr old can know anything except some guy through biscuits to him if he act int this way!! .... SLAVERY."
That is not slavery you Nugget-Brain. Slavery is forcing people to work in horrible conditions with no payment. We waste thousands upon thousands of dollars on dogs for 8-16 years none-stop just so they can look at us and be happy.

There is a reason why it is a highly wide spread joke that especially Cats own humans as their servants, which is often correct to some extent. Cats can even leave whenever they want if you haven't forgot, but most often return to get rubbed on their butts, where they can suddenly claw their owners cuz why not, and then they can get fed for sleeping all day.

Not slavery, learn the definition.
Edited by Ryo, Feb 16 2018, 10:56 PM.
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Satya
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Ryo
Feb 16 2018, 10:51 PM
You don't want to explain because you can't.

I assume it is also slavery that Ants keep Aphids as cattle then.

" but carnivorous are the MAIN PROTECTORS of the forest (by hunting/killing)."
Yes. And?

"Killing is not scary but 'beauty' of the nature because they designed to do that only."
It is still brutal. suffering, painful, horrible, nasty and what not. I don't care much for it, but you still get pregnant Zebras and Wildebeest getting eaten alive by Hyenas, getting their unborn infant ripped out.

"Dog/cat or any pet hardly have intelligence of 2 YR OLD KID"
I have seen claims of dogs having the intelligence of a 12 year old kid, but ofc I don't believe that. This is also completely irrelevant to my point, good job.

" they cannot express their feelings that doesn't mean they like SLAVERY."
Because they do not have the intelligence to do so. I assume you didn't read my comment. We are more slaves to them than they are to us very often.

"How can a 2yr old can know anything except some guy through biscuits to him if he act int this way!! .... SLAVERY."
That is not slavery you Nugget-Brain. Slavery is forcing people to work in horrible conditions with no payment. We waste thousands upon thousands of dollars on dogs for 8-16 years none-stop just so they can look at us and be happy.

There is a reason why it is a highly wide spread joke that especially Cats own humans as their servants, which is often correct to some extent. Cats can even leave whenever they want if you haven't forgot, but most often return to get rubbed on their butts, where they can suddenly claw their owners cuz why not, and then they can fed for sleeping all day.

Not slavery, learn the definition.
"Killing is not scary but 'beauty' of the nature because they designed to do that only."
It is still brutal. suffering, painful, horrible, nasty and what not. I don't care much for it, but you still get pregnant Zebras and Wildebeest getting eaten alive by Hyenas, getting their unborn infant ripped out.

==================

Even in modern society ....No law WILL PUNISH a 2 YR OLD KID on MURDER CHARGES. lol Don't use stupid logic pregnant and infants are eaten by carnivores etc the eat and be-eaten all are PUPILS here.

Cats own humans ,dog are kings bla bla bla is simply 'Propaganda' by OPPRESSOR because OTHER PARTY CAN'T SPEAK and UNDERSTAND.
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Ryo
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"Even in modern society ....No law WILL PUNISH a 2 YR OLD KID on MURDER CHARGES. lol"
No way, who would have known. Still missed the point. Not surprising.

"Don't use stupid logic pregnant and infants are eaten by carnivores etc the eat and be-eaten all are PUPILS here"
This sentence is dumb and irrelevant to what I said.

"Cats own humans ,dog are kings bla bla bla is simply 'Propaganda' by OPPRESSOR because OTHER PARTY CAN'T SPEAK and UNDERSTAND."
I am not sure if you're just this low thinking or a troll, but I will go on about it since I have nothing better to do. My family own a dog which I can use as an example, and you can find millions of cat owners as well doing this. But do explain how it is propaganda and how they are actually slaves. What demands do they fulfill to get that title?
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Satya
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Ryo
Feb 16 2018, 11:06 PM
"Even in modern society ....No law WILL PUNISH a 2 YR OLD KID on MURDER CHARGES. lol"
No way, who would have known. Still missed the point. Not surprising.

"Don't use stupid logic pregnant and infants are eaten by carnivores etc the eat and be-eaten all are PUPILS here"
This sentence is dumb and irrelevant to what I said.

"Cats own humans ,dog are kings bla bla bla is simply 'Propaganda' by OPPRESSOR because OTHER PARTY CAN'T SPEAK and UNDERSTAND."
I am not sure if you're just this low thinking or a troll, but I will go on about it since I have nothing better to do. My family own a dog which I can use as an example, and you can find millions of cat owners as well doing this. But do explain how it is propaganda and how they are actually slaves. What demands do they fulfill to get that title?
Used that 2yr old kid logic because u used MORAL code on Animal behavior(eaten pregnant zebra).That is plain and dumb.

Re: Propaganda masters aka Pet-slave traders justify sugar coated SADISM because OTHER PARTY CAN'T SPEAK and UNDERSTAND.
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Claudiu Constantin Nicolaescu
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What do you know about propaganda? You use this word too often. Are you a propagandist?
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Ryo
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"Used that 2yr old kid logic because u used MORAL code on Animal behavior(eaten pregnant zebra).That is plain and dumb."
Copy paste when I used morals. I simply stated the truth.

"Re: Propaganda masters aka Pet-slave traders justify sugar coated SADISM because OTHER PARTY CAN'T SPEAK and UNDERSTAND."
Wrong again. I can use my families dog for an example. And Millions of pet owners can use their pets as examples. Do you know how much money we have wasted on our quite literally useless dog? All he does is going around at home, being fed, walked, exercised and we play with him. All that money we have wasted on him the last 8 years just so he can be happy and look cute. And we know literally he does not view himself as a slave. If he did, he would not try and sneak himself into our car when we go vacation because he is car sick. All that we must go through when hearing his yelping for long drives just so he has a place to stay when we are gone or so he can get a fantastic walk at the beach. That is not a slave.

His parents came from a farm where they ran loose. They had puppies that needed homes and that they got.

Cats can quite literally leave when they want to, but always returns to get fed for sleeping all day, clawing you and your furniture and getting petted when they want to. Some cats even created certain Miavs that means "give me food" to their humans.
Sounds more like a human slave to me.
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Satya
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Ryo
Feb 17 2018, 01:37 AM
"Used that 2yr old kid logic because u used MORAL code on Animal behavior(eaten pregnant zebra).That is plain and dumb."
Copy paste when I used morals. I simply stated the truth.

"Re: Propaganda masters aka Pet-slave traders justify sugar coated SADISM because OTHER PARTY CAN'T SPEAK and UNDERSTAND."
Wrong again. I can use my families dog for an example. And Millions of pet owners can use their pets as examples. Do you know how much money we have wasted on our quite literally useless dog? All he does is going around at home, being fed, walked, exercised and we play with him. All that money we have wasted on him the last 8 years just so he can be happy and look cute. And we know literally he does not view himself as a slave. If he did, he would not try and sneak himself into our car when we go vacation because he is car sick. All that we must go through when hearing his yelping for long drives just so he has a place to stay when we are gone or so he can get a fantastic walk at the beach. That is not a slave.

His parents came from a farm where they ran loose. They had puppies that needed homes and that they got.

Cats can quite literally leave when they want to, but always returns to get fed for sleeping all day, clawing you and your furniture and getting petted when they want to. Some cats even created certain Miavs that means "give me food" to their humans.
Sounds more like a human slave to me.
Ur slave-dog walked,played,danced and gave company to u because u throw biscuits on him. U induced ur slave to act according to ur wishes.

They know 'by these stupid acts humans throw biscuits'... same as cats. lol

2.Because they never associate with other dogs or natural life they thinks u r their Alpha leader and blindly follow ... aka u r cheating innocent animals.

In all millions pet owners somany idiots thrash them indoor and again throw few biscuits they wag their tails.

SO pet trade == Sadism,Cheating and Throwing food.
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Ryo
Omnivore
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Satya
Feb 17 2018, 02:48 AM
Ryo
Feb 17 2018, 01:37 AM
"Used that 2yr old kid logic because u used MORAL code on Animal behavior(eaten pregnant zebra).That is plain and dumb."
Copy paste when I used morals. I simply stated the truth.

"Re: Propaganda masters aka Pet-slave traders justify sugar coated SADISM because OTHER PARTY CAN'T SPEAK and UNDERSTAND."
Wrong again. I can use my families dog for an example. And Millions of pet owners can use their pets as examples. Do you know how much money we have wasted on our quite literally useless dog? All he does is going around at home, being fed, walked, exercised and we play with him. All that money we have wasted on him the last 8 years just so he can be happy and look cute. And we know literally he does not view himself as a slave. If he did, he would not try and sneak himself into our car when we go vacation because he is car sick. All that we must go through when hearing his yelping for long drives just so he has a place to stay when we are gone or so he can get a fantastic walk at the beach. That is not a slave.

His parents came from a farm where they ran loose. They had puppies that needed homes and that they got.

Cats can quite literally leave when they want to, but always returns to get fed for sleeping all day, clawing you and your furniture and getting petted when they want to. Some cats even created certain Miavs that means "give me food" to their humans.
Sounds more like a human slave to me.
Ur slave-dog walked,played,danced and gave company to u because u throw biscuits on him. U induced ur slave to act according to ur wishes.

They know 'by these stupid acts humans throw biscuits'... same as cats. lol

2.Because they never associate with other dogs or natural life they thinks u r their Alpha leader and blindly follow ... aka u r cheating innocent animals.

In all millions pet owners somany idiots thrash them indoor and again throw few biscuits they wag their tails.

SO pet trade == Sadism,Cheating and Throwing food.
"Ur slave-dog walked,played,danced and gave company to u because u throw biscuits on him."
Wrong again. I rarely give him biscuits, he decides om his own that now he wants to sleep near my feet for the next 2 hours, even if he could go to someone else, eat, drink or play with his toys. Again, that is not what a slave is. We pay him for doing nothing more than making us happy by being him.

"U induced ur slave to act according to ur wishes."
Not anymore than a kid does. Again, a symbiotic relationship, just as seen in Aphids and Ants. Besides, what do I want him to do? What is my wishes? We didn't "learn" him to be right next to us 24/7, that is his personality. If he had it bad and saw himself as a slave, he would flee when the door is open.

"They know 'by these stupid acts humans throw biscuits'... same as cats. lol"
What in the actual world would a cat ever do for biscuits? It does nothing for you, you do something for it.

"In all millions pet owners somany idiots thrash them indoor and again throw few biscuits they wag their tails."
Correct, but that is irrelevant to what I am saying.

"SO pet trade == Sadism,Cheating and Throwing food."
Puppy Mills yes, not actual dog organisations. Nor the family my dog originally came from.
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Grazier
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*slowly backs away from what has become a painfully dumb conversation *
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Ryo
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Grazier
Feb 17 2018, 03:35 AM
*slowly backs away from what has become a painfully dumb conversation *
It is. But I need something to do.
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Claudiu Constantin Nicolaescu
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Propagandist S***a, you just spread wrong ideas. Nobody like and nobody understand what you are saying. But keep trying, maybe someday your propaganda will wash our brains. Are you alone or there are more like you behind you?
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Satya
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Ryo
Feb 17 2018, 03:19 AM
"Ur slave-dog walked,played,danced and gave company to u because u throw biscuits on him."
Wrong again. I rarely give him biscuits, he decides om his own that now he wants to sleep near my feet for the next 2 hours, even if he could go to someone else, eat, drink or play with his toys. Again, that is not what a slave is. We pay him for doing nothing more than making us happy by being him.

"U induced ur slave to act according to ur wishes."
Not anymore than a kid does. Again, a symbiotic relationship, just as seen in Aphids and Ants. Besides, what do I want him to do? What is my wishes? We didn't "learn" him to be right next to us 24/7, that is his personality. If he had it bad and saw himself as a slave, he would flee when the door is open.

"They know 'by these stupid acts humans throw biscuits'... same as cats. lol"
What in the actual world would a cat ever do for biscuits? It does nothing for you, you do something for it.

"In all millions pet owners somany idiots thrash them indoor and again throw few biscuits they wag their tails."
Correct, but that is irrelevant to what I am saying.

"SO pet trade == Sadism,Cheating and Throwing food."
Puppy Mills yes, not actual dog organisations. Nor the family my dog originally came from.
At-least u must have minimum commonsense ?..... throwing biscuits means throwing food to slaves. (even i mentioned below if u read it!!)

Slavery and Sadism is neither relation nor symbiotic. lol Poor innocent animals are used by ugly persons for their entertainment.

Many idiots cry aloud on few circus animals but the truth is there is no difference b/w circus animals and pets as both are SLAVES and live for human entertainment only.



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