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| Big territorial male leopards; Only territorial male leopards starting 60 kilograms and over | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 29 2012, 11:54 PM (256,443 Views) | |
| 1977marc | Nov 18 2015, 10:27 PM Post #1216 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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Hi Shin, yes he is dead. His last video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUU5ahsMbsY He lived a full live |
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| Shin | Nov 19 2015, 03:01 AM Post #1217 |
Omnivore
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I didn't realize he was soooo old! I've seen a couple of old leopard struggling to get around...must be very hard on a creature which relies on its strength & agility so much when they become weak due to aging... @ 16 year, he indeed live a full life... thanks |
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| chui | Nov 20 2015, 07:08 AM Post #1218 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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I read an interesting book on Sri Lankan leopards recently, "For the Leopard: A Tribute to the Sri Lankan Leopard" 2002 by Rukshan Jayewardene. This book provides some great info on this sub species as well some excellent photographs of Yala leopards from the late 1990s. In the book it's stated that due to their large size and position as top predators on the island, Sri Lankan leopards tend to hunt larger prey, with predation on adult sambar and subadult buffalo not being uncommon. One of the dominant males featured in the book known as the Chaitiya Male was said to frequently hunt such large prey. Here's one specific account of this male with a near adult buffalo he had taken down.  This is the same male shown in the 2001 BBC documentary, "Leopard Hunters". In the documentary he's described as the biggest in the park "weighing over 200lbs". Like the 100kg for Ivan, the weight most likely is just an estimate but an impressive leopard nonetheless. Skip to 5:35 to see the footage of this male. And also some great footage from 2:30 to 3:25 of a female leopard killing a buffalo calf despite being attacked by the rest of the herd! Edited by chui, Nov 20 2015, 07:08 AM.
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| ManEater | Nov 20 2015, 09:49 AM Post #1219 |
Omnivore
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Thanks Chui for all these datas on the sri lankan subspecie, who is for no doubt in the top league of the leopards alongside persian and forest african subspecie. All the conditions are here to make big specimens: apex predator, no poaching, lot of available (big) preys in the island. The video of the ceylan leopard killing the boar is one of the more impressive feat of predation i have seen for leopards, the boar is really huge (the leopard as well). Ceylan leopard killing a male axis deer.  More pictures here: http://yolopackage.com/yolo-moments/hunting-leopard.php Male Ceylan leopard at Pinnawala zoo in Sri lanka:  Look a the size of his muzzle. Another video (the last in date) of gabonese leopard in front of the mirror. (Interesting interaction between the cat and the elephants) Edited by ManEater, Nov 20 2015, 10:52 AM.
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| chui | Nov 21 2015, 05:14 AM Post #1220 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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From the same book here are some photographs of the Kotigala Male, another big dominant male from Yala in the late 1990s. A stocky, muscular looking leopard.   |
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| chui | Nov 22 2015, 08:18 PM Post #1221 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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Hey ManEater, I've been looking into books and other publications on Sri Lankan leopards lately via the library collections I have access to. There certainly is some evidence to suggest Sri Lankan leopards can get pretty big. I've also gathered a lot more data on skull measurements (in addition to what I've previously posted) and the data for Sri Lankan leopards suggests they aren't quite as big as those from Central Africa or West Asia but are a little bigger on average than those from Southern Africa, East Africa, and India. Interestingly, the data I've seen also shows that Sri Lankan leopards have a relatively wider rostrum compared to Indian leopards. This is also the impression I get from photographs, male Sri Lankan leopards seem to have a more pronounced and massive looking muzzle compared to Indian or African savanna leopards. This may be an adaptation to tackling larger prey, a more detailed study comparing such morphological features between leopard populations would be interesting. There's also various anecdotal accounts which lend some support to the idea that these leopards are particularly large. I've read a few times from different sources who remarked on the huge size of the leopards they saw in Sri Lanka or how these leopards were bigger than those they had seen elsewhere. For example, in the book, "Maneater of Punanai" 1992, the author Christopher Ondaatje writes the following after tracking a male leopard in Yala. "I was thrilled. The jeep circled round and followed the cat as closely as possible. It was a male, much bigger than any I had seen in Africa, and tawnier in colour, and it was plodding purposefully through the scrub." More significantly, Rukshan Jayewardene in his book (from my last posts) states that while working with the National Zoo, he found that the Sri Lankan leopards held there over the years were consistently bigger than the Indian leopards at the same zoo. Here's a picture of another big mature male from Yala scanned from Rukshan Jayewardene's book.  Edited by chui, Nov 22 2015, 09:36 PM.
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| Alexander Hamilton | Nov 22 2015, 11:46 PM Post #1222 |
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Unicellular Organism
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Anderson male |
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| Ntwadumela | Nov 23 2015, 02:13 AM Post #1223 |
Herbivore
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Since african leopards size varies greatly I'm not surprised if the leopards the author was used to see are from regions where they aren't very big, most likely from the east african savanna. |
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| chui | Nov 23 2015, 03:53 AM Post #1224 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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Hello Ntwadumela, I agree the size of African leopards varies considerably depending on the region. The point was not to say the Sri Lankan subspecies is bigger than the African subspecies. In fact, the subspecies classification of leopards has nothing to do with size and isn't really relevant when discussing size. Apart from the Far East Asian subspecies which seem to be generally quite small all other leopard subspecies are capable of producing large impressive specimens. With regards to African leopards which are believed to belong to a single subspecies (though this may change with future studies), it makes much more sense to categorize different populations based on the biomes they occupy when discussing size and morphology. The forest leopard of the Congo Basin, the desert leopard of Somalia, and the savanna leopard of South Africa may all belong to the same subspecies due to the lack of barriers between them but they have each been shaped by very different environmental/ecological conditions. It is only the first variety which IMO exceeds the Sri Lankan leopard in size. With regards to Christopher Ondaatje's experience with leopards in Africa, he had earlier published a book about leopards in the Serengeti. So you're right his experience was with savanna leopards which isn't really surprising as these are by far the most observed leopards in Africa. But if you're implying that East African savanna leopards are smaller than those from the Southern African savanna I would have to disagree. This isn't supported by the available data on skull measurements and body weights. Leopards from the Rift Valley savannas (of which the Serengeti is part) appear to be just as impressive as those from Kruger, if anything they seem to be stockier with broader heads. But unlike the leopards of Kruger and neighbouring reserves even they are not nearly as well observed, hence we don't get the constant updates and new photos of the big territorial males in the region which is probably why people seem to think South African leopards are something special. The big males of the Sabi Sands even have their own Facebook profiles! A big male leopard from the Serengeti. 
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| Ntwadumela | Nov 23 2015, 12:28 PM Post #1225 |
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Herbivore
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Hi Chui, I may have jumped the gun when said east african savanna leopards aren't very big, they are in fact impressive looking animals, but the point I was trying to make wasn't that southern african savanna leopards>east african savanna leopards, I always believed they are almost equal in size, but just to point out that Sri Lankan leopards aren't "much bigger" than all leopards in Africa, and Ondaatje wrote that based on his experience with, I assumed, the most known leopards in Africa in that time, which were the leopards from East Africa plains (this is my opinion based on the fact that most of documentaries and books I watched and read from the 80's and 90's focused more on this region's leopards), which aren't in the top league of leopards in Africa, that honor is reserved for the Congo Basin equatorial forest leopards, like you said. Here's another male leopard from Seregeti  Just curious, when you opened the door to the possibility of African leopards be splitted in different subspecies, which population/populations do you believe are more likely to be granted that status? |
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| Richardrli | Nov 23 2015, 02:36 PM Post #1226 |
Unicellular Organism
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We don't actually have any data on the East Asian leopards, so we can't be so sure that they're necessarily all small. |
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| chui | Nov 25 2015, 05:52 AM Post #1227 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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Well looking at the map of Africa and certain geographic features (deserts, rivers, mountains etc.) which may act as possible barriers between populations we can get some idea. Firstly, I'd imagine the Sahara desert most certainly would have been a pretty formidable barrier between the now likely extinct North African leopards and Sub-Saharan populations. The inclusion of the North African population with the rest of Africa was based on a very limited sample and is not consistent with the general trend seen in other species. Most species of North African mammals seem to have been more contiguous with West Asian populations until historic times as opposed to those south of the Sahara. The lion being a good example, so I don't see why it would have been any different for the leopard. Secondly, there is likely to be some division between West/Central African leopard populations and East/Southern African populations due to the presence of the great rivers such as the Congo to the south and the Nile in conjunction with the Albertine Rift mountains and lakes to the east. This trend is seen in many African species with the Albertine Rift creating a West and East divide between populations. Again the lion being a good example where the latest research has shown the West/Central lion to be distinct from the more familiar East/Southern African type. Of course, unlike with the lion the Congo Rainforest is not a barrier for the leopard but nonetheless the Congo River along with the other rivers in the region would certainly act as barriers to some degree at least. The current accepted taxonomic status of African leopards is based on fairly limited data and is certainly not set in stone. As indicated by the following excerpt from the latest study on the subject, Phylogenetics, genome diversity and origin of modern leopard, Panthera pardus, 2001. "Sampling in central, west and northern Africa was limited (one P. p. suahelicus, one P. p. reichenowi, and one P. p. panthera, Fig. 1 and Table 1). These isolated individuals did not discriminate from the more numerous southern African samples (Figs 2 and 3). More extensive sampling in the future may reveal further partitions among north/ central African leopards. The occurrence of divergent mtDNA haplotype lineages (PARI and PARII, Fig. 2) may reflect ancestral subdivisions consistent with this possibility. Nonetheless, until better evidence is developed, we consider African leopards to comprise a single revised subspecies, P. p. pardus." I would definitely like to see a much more complete study before I'm totally convinced all African leopards belong to a single subspecies. In any case, given the vastness of the continent for general discussion on size, morphology, behaviour etc I think it makes sense to divide the African population into 5 general regions (North, West, Central, East, and Southern) irrespective of whether they are distinct subspecies or not.
Actually there is decent amount of data available on these leopards. My focus for the past few years has been on skull measurements and I've managed to gather data on over 200 scientifically recorded male leopard skulls from across the species' range. I'll eventually share it when I have the time to put it altogether in a decent post. IMO this is the best available method to make an accurate assessment of the size variation within this species and to see where they get really big! This is not only because skull measurements have much greater reliability (vs. body weight, length etc) but because most leopard populations are actually represented in the skull data to allow for a comparison in the first place. Of course, this is supplemented by other info such as data on body weight/measurements, photographic evidence, opinions of those with firsthand experience etc. With regards to East Asian leopards (Amur/North Chinese, Indochinese, Javan), I have measurements of around 60 male skulls, more than for many other regions. On average they are smaller than those from India as is usually understood and the biggest skulls from the region at around 230mm long just about match the average for an Indian male leopard. Skulls from the mainland are somewhat bigger than those from Java. The skull data seems to be supported by info on body weights which suggests male leopards from SE Asia normally weigh around 45kg with large individuals weighing around 60kg. Furthermore, the size indicated by the available data is what you would expect given that East Asian forests generally appear to be naturally less prey rich than those of the Indian Subcontinent and there don't appear to be any ecological conditions in place which would produce particularly large leopards here. To be perfectly frank you could make a pretty accurate assumption about where leopards grow very big even without all this data based solely on the knowledge of the different ecological conditions in their range and a good understanding of natural selection. There isn't anything magical about places where leopards or any other big cats are particularly large. It's simply a combination of various factors driving selection to favour large size. First of all, the most crucial requirement is that there is enough prey available to provide the nutrition required for large size. Secondly, the size of the prey available will also influence the selection process governing the size of the leopard, with bigger and more robust prey leading to the selection of bigger size. In the case of the leopard this is complicated by the fact that in many parts of its range it is sympatric with larger predators like the lion and tiger. Therefore, in many areas even if large prey is present (ex. African savanna and India) the leopard due to the process of niche differentiation will not target such large prey. This principle also known as resource partitioning will allow it to co-exist with its larger competitors by reducing interspecific competition over resources. Furthermore, the presence of larger competitors will also more directly act as a limiting factor on size because a bulkier body will result in reduced ability to evade the larger competitor (by climbing up trees etc.) and therefore smaller size will be favoured by natural selection. In the absence of a larger competitor, the process known as character displacement will occur, ie the subordinate species will no longer be under the selection pressure limiting its size and will tend to exhibit an increase in body size. In the case of the leopard, we see this phenomenon in two main parts of its range, the island of Sri Lanka and the vast Congo Basin Rainforest. In these two ecosystems the leopard has evolved as the top predator for thousands of years and thus its size here would not be restricted by selection pressures imposed via interspecific competition. This does not mean that there are no size constraints at all for these populations, only that they are free from this particular limiting factor. In Sri Lanka for example, leopards are top predators but they likely face conflicting selection pressure in the form of island dwarfism. Island species tend to be smaller than their mainland counterparts due to more limited resources, and most Sri Lankan mammals are smaller than their equivalent in India. The exception is the Sri Lankan leopard which is at least as big and probably slightly bigger than the Indian leopard likely as a consequence of an interplay between these two conflicting pressures. There may also be some other areas where character displacement has likely occurred in leopards but to a lesser extent. This would have occurred where the effects of interspecific competition were reduced due to a lower likelihood of interaction with a larger competitor. For example, in the steppeland environments of North Africa and West Asia where predator densities are naturally lower and the forest/savanna mosaic environment of East Africa where local differences in habitat allow for greater spatial separation between competing species. Lastly, it seems the Bergmann's rule according to which bigger/heavier bodies are favoured in colder climates, does hold true in leopards to some extent at least. Leopards from colder mountainous regions generally seem to be bigger than those in nearby warmer lowland areas. This is best seen in East Africa where the largest leopards have always been regarded to be those from the highlands. Similarly, in West Asia the biggest leopards are generally those from the cooler mountainous areas. Even in South Africa a few sources have said that leopards from more highland regions tend to be stockier and more heavily built. This does not automatically mean colder environment equals big leopard, it is simply one factor at play and in the end it is a combination of all these factors. This is why I find the leopard so interesting, as a consequence of its adaptable nature and huge range there's so much going on which has resulted in all these different varieties. You don't see this in any other big cat. Sure, the jaguar also varies considerably in size across its range but it is essentially just a forest cat with the variation attributable largely to plain old prey abundance. Edited by chui, Nov 25 2015, 07:39 PM.
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| Alexander Hamilton | Nov 26 2015, 06:01 AM Post #1228 |
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Unicellular Organism
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In my opinion easily the largest male in southern Africa,the Anderson male.Jos van Bommel,who runs safaris in Africa and saw the Camp Pan male many times, said that he is much bigger than Camp Pan,and that he is the size of a lioness. Some recent pics of Anderson  https://www.facebook.com/255537504477974/photos/a.532713413427047.120761.255537504477974/1069757073056009/?type=3&theater  https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=531114677043167&set=gm.10153767256604920&type=3&theater The late Camp Pan male  https://www.facebook.com/255537504477974/photos/pb.255537504477974.-2207520000.1448483236./667530006612053/?type=3&theater |
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| 1977marc | Nov 26 2015, 06:09 PM Post #1229 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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I agree Alexander, biggest in SA I do not dare to say but Anderson is the Biggest of the last 10 years in the Sabi Sands, next to the late Ottawa male 210-220 pounds for sure.. Vin Diesel do not forget about him... |
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| Alexander Hamilton | Nov 29 2015, 04:31 AM Post #1230 |
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Unicellular Organism
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Mara males Ridge male  Golden Balls  Camp Pan,over 12 in this photo 
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6:04 PM Jul 13
